Noise Nuisance by Takeaway

Volodymir

Long story short we're renting an apt in the block with a takeaway located on a ground floor, they do deliveries too. The takeaway closes at 3AM daily. They have 2-3 delivery cars which constantly shuttle as well as customers, who tend to gather outside and have late night talks well after 12AM. While we can't call it an anti-social behavior event remotely, it does bother us to sleep. Sometimes we get waken up because of a customer loudly discussing something with the driver or a deliverer uses horn to greet someone. Occasionally we have spontaneous parties with the guards being called.

We like the place and leaving the estate will be our last resort, it tick all boxes except this one. We moved in last xmass, so the weather wasn't so accommodating for the outside gatherings now it becomes really hard to sustain. 

We have a question is there a regulation preventing businesses like open till late takeaways operate as part of living estates? In my mother country it'd unthinkable to have a takeaway open until 3AM right in the middle of the living estate. To us this is not a question of how it can bother people but rather how it can not bother? 

We tried sorting this out with the takeaway owner amicably, but he refused to discuss. We heard other people tried the housing agency but only got a standard email with a bunch of links in it. We also spoke to our landlord, who addressed our query to the Management company the answer was - it's not up to them to impose the closing time on the takeaway.

We'd really like the takeaway to move to another place or close by 10-11PM, so we can have some quite time to sleep.

Can anyone suggest on a practical way of solving our issue if any? 

Thank you in advance.

The only practical thing I can suggest is investing in some earplugs for when you go to bed.

The takeaway is not going to move premises, or close early and the delivery drivers are not going to be quiet.

The other alternative, is move.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058301225/noise-nuisance-by-takeaway

Being honest to expect a takeaway to close at 10 or 11 pm is unreasonable. They have a living to earn and provide a service which is popular for the public.

I get that it is annoying for you but why did you go for this property when you knew there was a takeaway underneath? Realistically if you find it so annoying your best option is to move somewhere else!

Mrs OBumble

I live in the city centre. You get used to the noise. Give it a few months, and you will barely notice it.

And the takeaway was there before you were. Kinda like moving in nex tto an airport and complaining about plane noise.

Volodymir

Thanks for the replies, yes we knew there's a takeaway. But we thought that by the law businesses can't run in a harmful for the residents health way. It's obvious that not all people can handle that amount of noise during the night. We thought that there's a government regulation, which ensures humans rights are protected. Certain things can't be up to how smart/able to predict the people are. People are guaranteed to have the right for sleep/rest - if it's not provided, then it shouldn't be between us as renter and the takeaway but rather between the government and the takeaway. As I said the place was much quieter during the winter/spring time also we pay fill price for rent, not a handicapped one.

Like in case with the airport - they shouldn't be offering any accommodation in the area having the excessive amount of noise, if anyone would - this should be done with a clear indication of the additional risks.

As we have 1 year contract we kind of stuck to the place so we'd really like to use all our chances and see what can be done.

Leg End Reject

Surely this has to be a parody?

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725556#Comment_120725556

There is no government regulation on this issue. People live beside takeaways, pubs, nightclubs - residents knowingly take on this risk that there will be noise when they choose to live near a business that's opened late. You should have known that possibly noise could be an issue when you viewed the property and seen there was a takeaway business underneath! You cannot expect lower rent because of noise either.

Your best option is to move and not try put a takeaway out of business!

CalamariFritti

Why don't you tell the takeaway you're looking for membership in NATO and you gonna ruin them. 😎

Volodymir

possibly because of the owner has already joined NATO, is this enough of an argument?

/too early for the joint/

satguy

The thing about moving into a home that is over a Takeaway,, is that there is a Takeaway under your home.

Chips & Batter Sausage is my go to ...

Darkglasses

There is likely to be a condition in the grant of planning permission for what times the takeaway can operate. The planning permission would be available on your City Council's website.

If they approved opening up as far as 3am (or if there is no condition), then you're goosed. If they only approved it up to 11pm/12am, then make a planning enforcement complaint.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725556#Comment_120725556

A takeaway will never be "healthy" - just look at the muck they serve as food!

As someone stated, there will be planning conditions. Unfortunately most planning pre-dated Deliveroo etc, so doesn't really think about the consequences of that. Possibly they can only be open to the public at certain hours - but there probably won't be anything stopping them using the location to serve delivery drivers.

While it would be lovely for everyone to live in a quiet area, which has no street noise at the time when they want to sleep. But that's just not possible. Some people work nights and sleep days. Some people need to live near takeaways / bars / etc. You get used to it after a while.

riffmongous

Yeah it's really amazing how lax the noise laws and regulations are in Ireland compared to other countries.

Maybe you can get them to be a bit more considerate through the EPA act?

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/environment-and-the-law/noise-regulations/

There is a bit there on making complaints, I don't know if you'd have any chance of success and I'd honestly doubt it considering it's Ireland, but the threat of it might be enough to make them take a bit more care, at the very least tell their drivers not to use their horns in the middle of the night

endofrainbow

Do you get a discount on your food?

gipi

You could advise the takeaway owner that it's illegal for his drivers to sound their car horns after 11.30pm.

Old thread on it here

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2056156985/when-is-it-legal-to-use-a-car-horn

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726857#Comment_120726857

Has anyone ever been prosecuted for this?

BTW it's illegal to use a horn except for an emergency, regardless of the time of day or night, I'll use my horn after 23:30 if someone does something that I consider an emergency.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727740#Comment_120727740

"The Regulations also provide that a driver may use a horn only to warn other road users of oncoming danger, or to make them aware of the driver’s presence for safety reasons when reasonably necessary. A horn may not be used in a built-up area between 11 pm and 7 am unless there is a traffic emergency."

Volodymir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725703#Comment_120725703

Thanks a lot, this is definitely the most practical route of all we heard. Can you please advise if the planning permission is the same as the planning application? We found this website using google search, can't post a link as our account is too new.

Inputting the name of the street we got nothing back. The building was erected in around 2003-2004 is it supposed to have a planning application?

I'd love to read that document. Was it common at the time to set the permissible areas of business which can operate in the retail units? As if not that can give a carte blanche to a wide variety of things with some of them having dramatic impact on the living estate.

From what we heard the takeaway only became part of the estate since 2019-2020 probably having many homes before that. All in all it really feels like they just hijacked the overly permissive MUD regulation or used the ignorance of the mgmt co. which is known to do nothing for the estate.

Thanks.

Volodymir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726515#Comment_120726515

That's totally fine. I don't want to go for details but we live in a semi-rural area with a lot of space being available to takeaways to operate but just outside the living estates. It's close by and they can stay open 24 hours a day no one would say a word. I appreciate the fact that it's a different story in a Greater Dublin area.

What happens in our case is the takeaway takes an advantage of having a slightly better location at a cost of residents suffering from a surrounding effect. I can be wrong but I don't think it's fair. There're certain expectations in relation to the standards of living, I think the main idea is we live in a regulated environment where certain things just should be permissible whether they've been foreseen or not. We were prepared for a mild discomfort but not the fact that we have to stay awaken until 3AM when they finish serving their clients. We see the guards coming over almost every week to stop late night parties outside the takeaway (with a mixed effect btw), we saw one or two families moving out because of this. If this is not enough to call this place toxic to the estate and move it out what is??

Moonbeam

Check the terms of their planning permission .

Otherwise the take away was there before you rented the place so it might be time to buy ear plugs or move .

Volodymir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120728957#Comment_120728957

We will fight, we've no choice.

With regards to the permission could you advise on where do we find it on the web??

I've never heard of late night parties being held outside takeaways before.

Thats a new one.

Volodymir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729007#Comment_120729007

I don't mean to be offensive but how do you know about it?? Are you an almighty takeaway supervisor or what?

Volodymir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726785#Comment_120726785

that's very funny indeed. we get awaken until 3AM that's we got.

Volodymir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120728957#Comment_120728957

Thanks to planningapi.agileapplications.ie the unit was originally licensed to do somethings else other than food serving and delivery. An application was made in 2016 to add food delivery to the list of services, it was objected by the management company but then permitted on the following conditions:

1. The proposed takeaway shall operate between 10:00 hours and midnight only. No operations on Sundays or Public Hols.

Reason: in the interest of residential amenity.

Broken/Not followed. The place publicly advertises services available until 3AM on any day, incl. Sundays and Public Hols.

2. No advertisement (summarized)

Reason: in the interest of visual amenity.

Broken/Not Followed. They have external banners, the whole place is covered by the food packaging and uneaten food. This is devaluing the property, we aren't the owners but still feel the pain also even calling someone makes us feel ashamed for the overall state of the place we live in.

Where does it leave us with? Is this thing a joke or can it be practically enforced?

Or let me be a bit more elaborate - having seen the usefulness of some measures in the past could we ask what is the efficient way/mechanism if any of dealing with this situation?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729014#Comment_120729014

I know that I have lived in this country for over 50 years and I've never, ever, heard of a party, let alone weekly parties, happening outside of a takeaway. So like I said - that's a new one.

Takeaways within residential areas are also quite normal here.

And I take a large pinch of salt on my chips.

Volodymir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729035#Comment_120729035

well, don't mean to be pathetic but things change. cheap food + young people + summer = party, isn't it?

If you're concerned about noise, you should go to the area at night and check it out before deciding to move in.

As for tips, get a fan and put rain sounds on a TV or speaker. You'll get used to the noise and it does a lot to block out stuff from outside. Earplugs too if needed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729040#Comment_120729040

No. Young people don't go to takeaways to have parties.

They might go to a pub, and get some food on the way back to someone's house to haparty, but the parties dont happen at the takeaways themselves.

I think you're on a fools errand if you think you're going to be able to get this business moved.

But it's your time and energy you'll be expending, so have at it.

Volodymir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729043#Comment_120729043

Why would I do this in a situation when people clearly offence the regulation, get me just one reason.

Volodymir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729044#Comment_120729044

Young people got to a pub? Do you hear yourself buddy? 😀

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729045#Comment_120729045

So you don't live somewhere noisy.

Volodymir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729043#Comment_120729043

it was quite when we probed it. you can't base that type of decisions on your personal lack. it's quite for one week then it gets unbearable for another three.

Volodymir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729044#Comment_120729044

>>I think you're on a fools errand if you think you're going to be able to get this business moved.

we move much bigger things when the truth is on our side.

Volodymir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729049#Comment_120729049

that's the whole point, we like the location it suits us well except for a business which clearly offends the regulation. shall we just say ah well we're out of luck and lose our deposit or shall we stand for our rights? Also who are the people suggesting we should just leave and absorb the damage? can we call them coward shmunts?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729046#Comment_120729046

Go to bed. 🛌

You're wasting your precious sleeping time. 😴

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729044#Comment_120729044

I doubt he means they sit on the ground with silly hats and sing happy birthday for hours. Though adults may congregate outside takeaways late at night, eating their food before heading home after a night of drinking, it isn’t unusual for youngsters to meet up at the local takeaway, our kids did it at weekends regularly when in their early/mid teens, the text would go around and they'd be gone out the door down of the local chipper which had seating inside and out.

And if the takeaway is breaching their planning permission, then like any other breach, the council should be informed and then do their job to enforce the conditions of the planning.

Deeec

OP it is really unlikely anything will change If you pursue the planning angle - other than wasting your time and getting yourself a reputation. The fact is this takeaway is providing a service ( probably the residents of where you live are good customers) and providing jobs. Do other residents have the same issue as you? If your area is semi-rural as you said where are all these customers coming from?

You could find you have little support on this from both council and residents. I'm not sure as a tenant rather than owner you can pursue this either - you may have to get your landlord to look into it and they may be unwilling to do it.

I think this is a battle you are going to lose being honest.

arctictree

To be fair, the planning was granted with a list of conditions that are not being complied with. It makes a joke of our planning system where people just get planning and then completely ignore the conditions.

OP, if you inform the council of a breach of planning then they are legally obliged to investigate. They have to follow it until the applicant applies to get the condition removed and is successful OR thay stop the activity. There is a reason why they are not allowed trade after 12.

rob316

You'll get use to the noise. I live in the city centre, 5 metres away from a very busy pub with DJ's every weekend and it is considered a residential area.

Volodymir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729247#Comment_120729247

Why all these questions? How are they relevant to the breach of the planning permission? The conditions specified in a planning permission are either a law of the whole thing is a joke.

Caranica

If the takeaway has been open for a couple of years other residents have clearly decided they prefer the amenity and are willing to learn to cope with the noise. This will include people who paid six figure sums to purchase their properties.

You move into the area, with the takeaway up and running and want to get its hours cut because you want to sleep and aren't willing to take measures to lessen the noise in your unit. Not everyone operates on the same schedule, for shift workers and bar workers late night takeaways are important food options and you want to remove that.

If the takeaway was actually causing a problem the Gardai would have pushed the Council to enforce the planning conditions but they haven't.

Btw did you check if the planning decision was appealed and conditions revised? This can happen.

Fwiw I live beside a hospital with ambulances arriving 24/7 and under the flight path to Dublin airport. I hear noise from neither. Yes for the first few weeks but your brain just learns to zone it out. White noise and/or a fan will help you but you seem hell bent on pursuing this business for some reason.

Volodymir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729056#Comment_120729056

Look after your precious time and let me to decide what do with mine. Thanks.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729284#Comment_120729284

Well Op I've got news for you - planning conditions are very often not enforced at all - that's Ireland for you!

As you haven't answered my question I take it the other residents don't have the same issue with the takeaway as you do and maybe see it as a good service to have in the area and dont want to put them out of business.

Best of luck op - I don't think your crusade is going to work being honest. Do yourself a favour and go out today and get some earplugs.

You come across as having a very entitled attitude and won't accept that the take away was there before you!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729336#Comment_120729336

It seems like you are saying that if planning conditions only affect a few people, the council should ignore them, are you?

I would have thought that opening hours would be an important consideration for the council when granting permission in a populated area. It isn’t entitled to expect businesses to abide by the conditions of their pp, and to expect the council to enforce them. If your neighbour built an extension which is not in compliance with pp and affects you in a detrimental way, would you say you are acting in an entitled manner by object to the council?

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729347#Comment_120729347

A planning condition regarding opening hours is never enforced. Even bigger planning conditions than this are being ignored all over the country. The council won't take this seriously at all.

What I am trying to find out from the op is how big a problem is this. Do alot of residents in the area have a problem with the noise or is it just the op being overly sensitive.

The op may have a better chance of this being successful if they have support from the local community. If he is alone on this issue than he doesn't much of a chance of changing anything.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729336#Comment_120729336

Christ this thread is such a glaring indictment of the pusillanimous attitude to any sort of confrontation that's so prevalent amongst irish people. Someone breaking the rules and causing a nuisance? "Get over it you selfish prick, they were there first and can do whatever they want" or "move house in the middle of a housing crisis." Great advice lads and ladies, just because ye are too timid to even try do anything about it.

And god forbid if you try to stand up for yourself instead of letting them walk all over you, even when you are in the right, then you're 'entitled' and on a 'crusade'.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729388#Comment_120729388

So you would prefer to possibly put this takeaway out of business and people lose their jobs and livelihood - all because one person is oversensitive to noise? ( being honest that seems to be the issue with op here).

What a selfish attitude you have.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729035#Comment_120729035

You might need to get out a bit more.

In summertime, outside the local takeaway is a great bushing spot for more daring. And a lit cheaper than going to the pub.

Volodymir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729404#Comment_120729404

That's it. Plus there're people out there who don't use English when talking to each other sorry for this news @Loueze. They don't go to no pubs if yr know what I mean.

We can't blame people for doing this. Which is why we never called the guards. The opportunity was provided why should they not use it? It's like blaming an outbred dog for impregnating an expensive bitch.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729397#Comment_120729397

So you think a business can do whatever they want just so they don't go out of business?

What a selfless attitude you have, it's probably the stupidest thing I've read here which is saying something, but still so selfless.

I shouldnt have to state the obvious here but no one wants anyone to go out of business, but there are rules there for a reason, and the takeaway are blatantly ignoring them and refusing to engage on them (which is the worst part and where any sympathy should end), the OP just wants them to stop being a noise nuisance, if they end up going out of business they have no one to blame but themselves.