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Last night's BBC Panorama on Evs,what did you think?

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  • 13-06-2023 8:28am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭


    I found it interesting that the team chose what looked like a 7 seater VW to drive from England to Scotland ,just the driver on board.

    No mention of the chaotic situation in N.Ireland, which is now being paid for, even though the programme was made by bbc NI ?



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 626 ✭✭✭z80CPU
    Darth Randomer


    You won't get a Prime Time investigates program like that OP in quality or coverage.

    Might make those radio and tv adverts on RTE a bit too cringeworthy which they already are.

    Glad the panorama program was made anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭fafy




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭reboot




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭ondafly


    Looks to be the 5 seater version - 7 seat ID Buzz is long wheel base. Clearly just VW using the show for product placement. Lovely care none the less - if it wasn't so feckin expensive.

    I enjoyed the show - felt it was a pretty good demonstration of the current issues people have with EVs in general.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭sh81722


    ID Buzz is one of the least efficient EVs out there. Didn't watch the show but if the trip went well fair play to UK charging networks.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭spudwiser


    It is also not at all representative of the types of EVs that are being bought at all in my opinion.

    How much is the Buzz? €90k? Not at all what EVs are meant to be either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,157 ✭✭✭joe1303l


    Only saw the 2nd half of the programme but it seemed informative. I.D Buzz wasn’t a great choice in terms of efficiency but it’s looks would have grabbed attention.

    The takeaway was identical to the situation here; Modern EV’S are great but expensive + Public charging is a horror show. Public charging experience is exasperated by Multiple Apps, Accounts, Subscriptions etc. You need to have a driveway and be able to charge there at night if you don’t want hassle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭Stevie2001


    Funny how all these 1000km challenges and the like are never the real world they state they are, they take a real world 7 seater family car, but never any real world family in it, always a presenter or a friend and they chilled out, who travels 1000km with a friend lol

    No real world 3 or 4 kids and moody wife, a baby who cried for 2 hours and just as it falls asleep, the range is getting low and you have to stop and charge, the little one then roars the place down as you have to stop and charge and you drag the kids to Supermacs to eat overpriced unhealthy rubbish at Circle K for the 40 min wait and you paid €60,000 for the privilege or whatever the ID Buzz costs



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,904 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Do you have many family members who'd be willing to sit with you for 10hrs on a drive to nowhere just to produce a video?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,161 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    It is also not at all representative of the types of EVs that are being bought at all in my opinion.

    But it could be argued that it's representative of the types of ICE that are on our roads that need to have a electric alternative that will make people switch.

    We all know that EVs are great for shorter urban trips and home charging is a big seller.

    You could make all the documentaries you like about Ioniqs getting charged at home, being used for a short commute or in a town or suburbs etc and it would paint a very different picture.

    But what about bigger EVs, the equivalent of the people carriers that are so common with families up and down the country, that are also used for longer range holiday trips from time to time.

    And as another poster said, throw a real family in that Buzz and it's a different story again.

    They are the ones that have convince.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭reboot




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭reboot


    Not to mention the Elephant over there. The EV weighing twice its ICE equivalent?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭sh81722


    Twice sounds a bit heavy. A Tesla Model 3 RWD weight at about 1.75tons, which is perhaps 100 kg more than a diesel BMW 3 series. And a hybrid Beemer is 100 kg more at 1.85t. Apart from some additional resource use what's the problem with the weight anyway? You'll offset the resource weight penalty after a few tanks of liquid fuel has been pumped through an ICE car.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭fafy


    I’m getting a little annoyed with these slightly imbalanced EV programmes. After an initial period, most EV owners tend to adjust, and get better, at arranging charging around where they are going, have an account setup, know in advance which chargers are not working etc. Most of us have experienced broken chargers, but while its definitely an issue, needs a lot of improvement. its not all the time either.

    In this programme, its like he was clueless, nothing setup in advance, or, a little unprepared, so hardly representitive, of a real world situation.

    Then there is the default - 500/600km trip, which most of people do not do, on a daily basis, yet, its the sole focus, of many of these programmes.

    Its like the various Radio/tv programmes i’ve seen here. The longer journeys Dublin to Kerry, Cork to Dublin, dominates everything, when in reality, for at least 50 % of people,(exceptions noted) it is an infrequent trip of 6 times per annum.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,678 ✭✭✭zg3409


    It's the top gear equivalent of a car review. Head straight to a track with a million pound supercar a few burnouts and recommend the car with 5 stars.

    These are typically 99% entertainment shows with journalists that don't know the topic in depth. If they can run out if juice or fake a break down then it makes great TV. 99% smooth trips and running cost savings don't work well on tv shows. Most "real" TV shows fake or stage most scenes and often say they will have a backup driver drive the car or car on a tow truck for safety with the star of the show reading a script and the crew trying to get all the pre planned camera shots of passing land marks etc.

    For example on "don't tell the bride" the crew deliberately delayed delivery of a wedding dress just to create drama and wind up the bride.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭reboot


    Just repeating what the nice journalist said on a recent TV program on EVS , .that everyone has an opinion on,which can't be bad. As long as they agree with my opinion,



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭reboot


    Maybe what's the problem? May lead down the road of bigger batteries and more fast chargers? What's wrong with that??



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    it wouldnt be an interesting show if it showed how an awful lot of people just park at home, plug in and charge. And then that they only need to public charge every so often and it works seamlessly and people move on with no fuss. All the comparisons of "real life" people moan on both sides about of either it doesnt happen often or that they dont show the family and kids and the trials of that. We had to make a trip recently of over 600k return, about 3.5 hrs each way, with 3 kids. Had the option of using a diesel 7 seater or the EV. Chose the EV as it is a much more comfortable drive. We stopped on the way up but didnt charge, but the kids needed a break. We stopped on the way back again for a break and I charged it for a cost of €10 at an ionity (discounted) and that was our charging experience. We've regularly driven to Dublin and back (south Wexford) and not charged at all, but would have stopped to give the kids a break. People always make out like that you only have to stop if you have an EV and need to charge. Sometimes people just need a break and to stretch legs no matter what you drive.


    EV's suit some people in certain situations, and in other ways they dont suit some. I do find the people who dont have an EV telling people with one that it is awkward and wont listen to being told that it isnt, frustrating. Overexaggerating issues that arent there for all EVs or trying to put conceived notions into situations that arent applicable to all. The program showed some small positives to it, but overall gave the same stereotypical negative view on range and other things. Anyone who has an EV generally gets their apps and charging points sorted when they get the car for future potential use. I've done over 20,000km in my EV and used a public charger 4 times. Thats not to say the charging network is good or fine, but its not the major issue some who dont have an EV try to portray it is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,189 ✭✭✭crisco10


    Part way thru summer road trip with kids (2 and 4) for summer holiday in BEV. Currently near Southampton en route to France. Experience with public charging has been good so far, and yet again this summer (after driving 2.5k + km in France last summer), the car is not limiting us. The kids need to stop more often, and for longer than the car. And there is a large enough selection of chargers that we stop roughly when we want in the journey.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭reboot


    Makes a lot of sense. I'm only ten years at this, but the only constant thing is change.Thanks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭reboot


    Good job you didn't holiday in N .Ireland. We've had ten years of chaos, which since the power company changed has moved to costly chaos,as things get worse. Sure Brexit will put things right.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,166 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I had a similar experience driving across the UK by myself last year. 900km each way and I had to stop twice without charging just to take a break from driving

    I'm probably not going to watch the documentary but if the lads had any trouble charging it's because they're idiots or went looking for problems

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,440 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    A renault zoe is 1468 kg (number from wikipedia , didnt mention year or model) its based on the old clio platform ..

    And the 2022 clio 5 ,tce 90 is down as 1276 kg ,

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭reboot


    When I have to change my EV again,weight will be a Major consideration, problems over the past decade I've found have arisen around suspension, and steering , bearing issues, interestingly involving the Zoe,with MOT failure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭GTE


    I feel it could be worth distinguishing between EVs that are cars and EVs that are vans. My Passat GTE estate can hold about 1600 litres with the seats down. The Buzz can take 3900 litres.

    If we compare like with like, the Buzz and the Merc EQV is an interesting comparison, albeit Summer for the Buzz and Winter for the Merc. The Buzz does 362km at 90kph from 77kWh whereas the EQV does 299km at 90kph from 84kWh,

    The Buzz seems quite capable of consistent 184kW charging, should the mood take you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,440 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Wow , wouldnt have thought a couple of hundred kgs should make that much difference,

    The renault 5 ev is expected to be around 1500kgs as well , surprised me I thought it'd be getting lighter

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭reboot


    As I'm sure you know,winter can mean lithium batteries loose 20% capacity, good old lead acids 40%.

    I try to charge with ,Granny cable overnight at 10 Amps. The batteries were tested after 7 years and each cell was showing 98.5 % efficiency. Some fast charger Ive seen can charge at 160 Amps.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭reboot


    I can quote several cases of CPs out of operation and intermittent faults for years in this part of the Island.Its widely known where to point fingers at the Idiots. History seems to be about to be repeated as some ouncils hold off on tendering, to get the highest bidder,delaying roll out of new tech.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭sh81722


    There is good and bad designs and parts manufacturers out there. Some makes are better than others. But in general at a car design phase they don't just slap any random parts under a car and hope for the best but design in vehicle mass in mind.



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