PGA and LIV golf tours stop fighting, agree to merge

Overheal

And the backlash is about as accurate as you could have predicted. What did they think was gonna happen?

https://www.mediaite.com/sports/blood-money-golf-fans-are-absolutely-livid-over-pga-tour-liv-agreement/

https://www.mediaite.com/sports/barstools-dave-portnoy-destroys-scumbag-pga-tour-commish-over-deal-with-saudi-backed-liv-what-a-piece-of-sht/

The new entity will be for-profit, including the PGA European Tour

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/06/pga-tour-agrees-to-merge-with-saudi-backed-rival-liv-golf.html

Is this going to be the decline of pro golf or a new boom by people with no care for beheadings or the fungibility of money

Boggles

Golf has been on the decline the past number of years and viewing figures reflected it.

Then along came LIV and diluted further an already flagging product.

Will be very interesting to hear the PGA explain themselves.

For Forks Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120683405#Comment_120683405

Statement from the PGA

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058299449/pga-and-liv-golf-tours-stop-fighting-agree-to-merge

Most people won't care. Looks like Benzema and maybe Messi will be joining Ronaldo in Saudi Arabia soon, there are no morals in professional sport now, it's only money, their legacies won't even be smeared for most people

kneemos

McIlroy apparently was offered €400 million I heard on the radio earlier. He'll be bedridden for several days at least.

Admirable for any of them that turned down the cash though in fairness,even if it doesn't matter anymore.

BattleCorp

I'm surprised that they are joining up. I thought there'd be more chance of Celtic and Rangers creating a joint football team.

I gotta be honest though. If I was a professional sportsman, I'd take the money and park my morals. We aren't all that moral eitherways given that most of us use Saudi oil in some shape or form.

Patrick2010

Padraig Harrington defending the deal by tweeting that Ireland sells military equipment to the Saudis and that up to 1996 Ireland locked up unmarried mothers.

Patrick2010

https://twitter.com/padraig_h/status/1666148342613540876?s=46&t=I5Ng64p4m8u3ocgC9fbhI

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684210#Comment_120684210

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684343#Comment_120684343

And here comes the moral compromising.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684348#Comment_120684348

Hey, I make no excuses for myself. If I had a skill that the Saudi's were willing to pay me very well for, I'd have no problem working for them. I doubt I'm the only person who thinks this way.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684353#Comment_120684353

That's well evidenced, but it's not for me.

The 9/11 Families United group is also condemning the move, which as far as I can see is a hostile takeover of the PGA, their alternative was to go bankrupt fighting LIV in court, whom have unlimited slush for attorneys fees.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/9-11-families-united-rips-pga-tour-commissioner-over-deal-with-liv-golf-make-no-mistake-we-will-never-forget/

Michael James Stewart from Belfast; Ruth Magdaline McCourt, from Co. Cork; Kieran Joseph Gorman, from Co. Sligo; Jeremy Caz Carrington, from Co. Down; Joanne Mary Cregan and Patrick Joseph Currivan, from Dublin; and Martin John Coughlan, from Co. Tipperary.

https://www.irishpost.com/news/remembering-irish-victims-september-11-attacks-171207

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684378#Comment_120684378

Your Government don't seem to give a shyte seeing as the US have supplied billions of dollars worth of arms to Saudi Arabia.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684604#Comment_120684604

Anyone who puts petrol in their car or uses 95% of all man-made products has zero standing to be moralising to the Saudis.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684613#Comment_120684613

With that kind of outset, why don't we just start beheading and stoning people, it's all the same. ?

Boggles

It's hilarious that footballers and golfers have been put on a pedestal to be our moral guardians.

I never once asked myself what would Rooney do in this situation, for obvious reasons, the lad was yanked out of school at 12 basically because he could hammer one in from 25 yards and we all cheered on, well not everyone.

Ronaldo and Benzema off to Saudi for the money, no bloody morals, like they were playing for cut prices at Madrid and United.

That said Padraig put down the twitter for God sake.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684613#Comment_120684613

This is incredibly stupid.

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684613#Comment_120684613

No-one can criticize anyone or anything, unless they are a pure saint?

It would have been more convincing if Padraig Harrington had said, its a game, chill out. Trying to say "sure, we're all just as bad as everyone" is pathetic and insulting. There's so many things wrong with Saudi Arabia, but the death penalty for atheism always stands out for me (not always carried out, the last case I recall was reduced to 10 years in jail and 2000 lashes).

The big question is what will those who refused to play liv do

Will they make a stand and retire with a few million in the bank or compromise and play on regardless.

My hunch is the latter and there goes any moral standing they may have had.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685206#Comment_120685206

I don't think the players who supported the PGA in the face of billions been offered to them have any questions to answer, it was the PGA who pulled the rug not them. PGA need to explain and justify before anyone else.

I also don't think anyone of them are morally obliged to give up their careers because of a decision they didn't make.

WheelieKing

Cess pit of a sport now. Unfortunately football is going the same way and i fully expect premiership matches as well as champions league games to be played in Saudi, Dubai, Qatar and all the other backward hellholes within the coming years.

osarusan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684613#Comment_120684613

is this you?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685315#Comment_120685315

That's my point entirely. Having taken a stand against Liv will they now refuse to play in what will be a company funded my Liv.

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120686112#Comment_120686112

Will Liv push them out? Not the most forgiving types.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685446#Comment_120685446

It’s already started. Spanish super cup was played in Saudi Arabia last few years.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120686112#Comment_120686112

Their "stand" was very little to do with human rights. Again they are golfers not politicians.

They supported the PGA because they rightly claimed the dilution of the sport would be the determent to it.

In reality now that it has merged those concerns have subsided somewhat.

So no, anyone who supported the PGA are not obliged to give up their career, morally or otherwise.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685180#Comment_120685180

It’s like the guff from Israeli propagandists that you aren’t allowed to question their ethnic cleansing ambitions if you use a phone computer or route through an internet server with an Intel chip.

valoren

When LIV started the PGA Tour, to protect its monopoly on elite mens golf, enforced a point of no return when it didn’t need to i.e. join that tour and there is no coming back. To be viable LIV needed to offer mind boggling sums to entice players to make the leap. The amounts were life changing and many were tempted away. Those who did, professionals who play golf to make as much money as possible, were accused of greed and taking blood money, 9/11, no regard for tradition etc. Now LIV has all the money but no sponsors or TV deals. The PGA Tour has the sponsors and the TV deals but not the bottomless pockets of the Saudi investment group backing LIV. That it was conducted in secret and then sprung on the players is suspect. Perhaps the Saudis thought that buying up the smaller pool of Tour executives made more sense than enticing many of the top players. It is such an about face and so utterly hypocritical that such cynicism applies. The arrangement might be to keep the individual tours as is, that ranking points come back but a player can only play on one tour in a given season.

Overheal

term comes to mind

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportswashing

Speak in Proverbs

Drawing parallels between the free market, terrorism and LIV in Irelands set of circumstances

So there’s been a lot of kerfuffle about the LIV tour taking over the PGA and I hear people saying look at the damage the free market can do, terrorists or a terrorists state taking over American golf in the wake of the Saudi backed 9-11 attacks. My feelings are that those same people, protectionists, are the very same people that backed and voted for Haughey in the 80’s whilst he overtly supported the terrorists and tried to bring arms in to this country to kill Protestants.

So where does Ireland stand, the Irish republicans are placed nicely, they can argue against international terrorism whilst also backing up their mandate of market interventionism. They look like they are being civilised whilst getting a good advert for their own political policies. But if we dissect their intentions and motives and expose their hiding in the long grass, we can come to a picture of them being hypocrites. 

Indeed they backed and voted for the murder of innocent Protestants in the troubles via Haughey. Indeed they also back a form of protectionism which is akin to communism and a rejection of anything outside which is not Irish owned. But how do these same people talk about international terrorism as if it is not their own? America is in the uncomfortable state of having to say (according to Harrington on Joe Duffy) Saudis Arabia is not a terrorist state and therefore we can’t exclude all Saudis Arabians. The same applies in their case to Ireland but as we see from the voting of Haughey in the 80’s effectively we were a terrorist state and still are in many circumstances through the overwhelming support of Sinn Fein in the polls. 

But I come to the idea of if you can’t hold the population to account for a states crimes in terrorism then why did America invade Afghanistan? It’s double talk. And if that applies then the same must also apply to Mary Lou on St. Patrick’s day. McIlroy for his part has done an incredibly good job considering where he comes from, being impartial and claiming for Northern Ireland effectively UK. He has steered clear of getting sucked into the politics of terrorism, and it paid off in his being able stand against Saudis Arabia with clean hands. 

Harrington has taken another track comparing the human rights of Ireland to Saudia Arabias human rights. He cited Ireland ‘locking up unmarried mothers as late as 1996’. And while it is all relevant it isn’t the sole reason that the takeover is outrageous - that reason would be 9-11 and terrorism. The victims of the 9/11 attacks said the PGA Tour should be ‘ashamed of their hypocrisy and greed’ in agreeing a deal with Saudi-backed LIV Golf.

Jimmy Dunne who did this deal (PGA), he lost two floors in the twin towers. He lost his friends and the workforce in 9/11," said Harrington. "Now I don't know enough about this, he has come out and said that terrorists blew up the Twin Towers. So he should know.”

But how can he condone doing the deal knowing America invaded Afghanistan for the same reason? How can he not back an invasion of Suadia Arabia? Because it is a strategic base in that region. Compromise will lead America down the garden path of immorality. 

The Irish republicans in twisting Americans arms during the troubles have brought about a compromise in their ideals and morals towards terrorism which in effect could be the beginning of the end for America as the number one global power. And the Irish republicans don’t give a damn about it. They only care about their own country and their will to power. God help them if/when ireland ever gets invaded and the are looking for help from abroad! Their immorality will hopefully end them up with nothing.

In terms of the free market, I’m in agreement with Colm McCarthy, it has never been given a chance to thrive in Ireland and much of the great house building in Dublin was done through the free market pre 1916 and socialism. (Compare those houses to the socialist/communist era ones of the 40/50/60’s in Ireland.) I am for a state of creative destruction which raises the living standards through hardship of the free market. Protectionism although it seems to make sense in some circumstances like with LIV, does not lead to national strength. It leads to death and weakness as has been seen in all socialist countries around the world in history. Capitalism has won that war hands down and I know there are people who say socialism/communism hasn’t been tried in appropriate conditions. They are after power via populism resulting in the death of the economy and nation as has been seen all throughout history.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120686289#Comment_120686289

i dont think the issue was dilution of golf, sure thats an argument against having multiple tours. in fact the biggest issue facing the new venture is that its an anti competitive monopoly.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684353#Comment_120684353

I have one. No way would I ever move to such a regressive place.

Overheal

PGA is sanitizing their pressers

https://www.mediaite.com/sports/reporters-asking-about-pga-tours-deal-with-the-saudis-are-already-getting-shut-down-at-pressers/

Overheal

"I still await Saudi acknowledgement of their role in the attacks of 9/11, which resulted in the loss of the innocent lives of 3000 of my fellow American citizens. … That day, forever among the darkest in our nation’s history, is sadly not alone among the human rights violations we have seen employed by Saudi Arabia. I ask the Tour, how is a non-negotiable point for us one day one we negotiate around the next?

…

My loyalty to golf and this country live in the same place and have held equal and significant weight with me over my lifetime. Please educate me and others in a way that allows loyalty to both, and in a way that makes it easy to look 9/11 families in the eye and ourselves in the mirror."

https://www.mediaite.com/sports/golf-legend-tom-watson-calls-out-saudi-deal-in-letter-to-pga-tour-commish-explain-this-in-a-way-we-can-look-9-11-families-in-the-eye/

GreeBo

Big, bold statement from Watson alright, interesting to see players responses.