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Laura Trevelyan seeks atonement for the Famine/Slavery

  • 02-05-2023 1:26pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 19


    I for one think she is a very brave woman for doing what she is doing. Diarmuid Ferriter fired the first shots highlighting how her great great great grandfather said “no Irish must die” and they did and condemned the famine as Gods punishment on the Irish people. We Irish are good at crawling around looking for crumbs of strategic and moral superiority over the English and it’s happening again to what should be taken as an attempt to open up and atone and heal the scars of the past for once and for all.

    My views on it are complex and multi-faceted. There is no doubt the damage free market caused to the lives of Irish people at that time and there has to be limits set on it as such, but clinging to ring fenced protectionism and socialism will in the end cause wide spread poverty to a nation and do the opposite to what it purports to do which is prevent poverty. Any ideology taken out of the centre ground and to its extremes will cause harm.

    Then there is the time in which all these events occurred. We were a Catholic nation but the calling on deliverance from above ends in these sorts of outcomes. Let me elaborate. Strict andherence to Catholic doctrine realises its end goal of personal destruction if we are to imitate the life of Jesus Christ. That seems to me to be the end goal. Even to this day the Irish nation is renowned for calling on deliverance from above which manifests in the north. It happened in WW1 and WW2 when the Nazis went wild and it provided an opening for our independence. But what was the widespread collateral damage outside of Ireland to these longings for deliverance and power? The destruction of the world as we know it. 

    Nowadays the republicans align themselves foreign policy wise with Russia. In those days it was Germany and still is in some respects. Denial of the Israeli state, alliances with the Palestinians, anti-European and anti-internationalist sentiments, condemning the US for its policies of interaction and contribution the African nations in business. Alignment with the FARC in Colombia in some cases acting as political consultants for them in bringing arms into Colombia and profiting tens of millions from it and the drug trade there. 

    Then with scorn going to luncheons and business dinners in the States and raising funds there while thumbing their nose at WW2 and the Unites States foreign policies. Its hypcricy and cretinism at the highest order. Worse, it’s criminal and the support of criminality and opposition to the current world order and the west.

    Back in the times of the famine, there was much literature which gave rise to the destiny of nations and the direction in which they moved. For Ireland it was God and calling on Him for deliverance but these things should also be looked on in the context of the times in which they existed. Tolstoy wrote about resurrection in 1899 and seventeen years later the Irish Republic had a rising on Easter Sunday? These things aren’t coincidences, they are an amalgamation of ideas from the wrong sources and brought to fruition by anti-west sentiments.

    Trevelyan had a part to pay in that he condemned the Irish to their fate as the will of God. John Mitchell’s Jail Journal advocated for slavery and the purpose of the Irish nation as an advocate of it because it is white. If our republican leaders are pro-slavery how can they condemn the famine at the hands of the British? They can’t. 

    As for Trevelyan, he condemned the famine as the punishment of God but the times were shrouded in the literature of Tolstoy and extreme Catholicism in the wake of the enlightenment. People called on this destruction from the north and it manifested. It turned out to be personal destruction initially in the image of Christianity. It was also shaped around the famines of Russia and the extremism of their thought. It came about and has given the Irish people the moral high ground over England for the rest of history. 

    But to say the Irish through their extremism and in some cases savagery (Mitchell) didn’t have a part to play in bringing it on themselves is wrong. Not the blight but the conditions of withholding food thereafter. We were and still are shrouded in religious extremism and in some ways savagery. I for one won’t be taking the moral high ground over Laura Trevelyan and will see things from both sides. There was much upheaval on the planet at the time and the famine was a terrible human tragedy but not a genocide.



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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Has chat GPT finally become sentient and joined boards?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,408 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Are you sure you talked enough nonsense there OP?

    So we have;

    - Nazis

    -WW1 & 2

    -Tolstoy

    -Britain

    -God

    -The Easter Rising

    -FARC

    -Catholicism

    -Israel

    -Russia

    -Colombia

    The one thing you barely mentioned...the Famine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,198 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,198 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    As for the topic,

    You dont punish kids for the actions of the parents.

    Likewise Laura Trevelyan had no role in past events. Rather than reparations,etc a museum in England to the consequences of Imperalism,etc might be more fitting.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭sheesh


    just skimmed through it but I notice the Catholic church seemed to be partially to blame for the Famine.


    As for the Trevellian woman seeking to make some sort of apology I think that is very nice of her and we should accept it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,228 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Self indulgent bollox to be claiming repentance or reparations for something some relation did generations ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,228 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Reads like it. I was thinking I must start a thread and use chat gpt and see how it plays out.


    He beat me to it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,781 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I think she's got nothing to do with anything frankly, I don't believe in the sins of the father, especially 7 generations removed.

    I think out of respect for the millions that died and were forced to emigrate, due to British intransigence and mismanagement at the time, she and everybody else should just shut up about tokenism now and leave them all rest in peace.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,202 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Well the religion of the people was hotly fought over in the 19th century with zealots on both sides. Lot of fundraising for churches in those times as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,050 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    I find the idea of her paying reparations to be a bit much but it is refreshing to see a prominent British voice coming out and discussing the unpleasant actions of the Empire, especially with the current nationalistic UK gov in charge.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    Lay off the glue OP



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,367 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Chat GPT has a far more measured tone of voice and is actually really easily to spot due to its preference for the passive voice. Search for user Wibago on here, which is clearly a Chat GPT bot and you'll see what I mean.

    This OP is just a crank.



  • Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    She's a loon, anyone that feels guilt over something an ancestor 170 years ago did is not even a slightly rational human being and is not to be taken seriously.


    Anyone who'd accept this money for any reason other than pure greed (and I'd be quite willing to have some of her money myself for that reason ) is not to be taken seriously either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭j2


    There's a saying in chess which goes "if you to bed with a gooey asshole you'll wake up with a fist-full of shine." Take from that what you will, but there will certainly be no money coming to the descendants of the famine's victimry.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    There is not one person alive today who didnt benefit from slavery.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,685 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Yes because slavery was universal.

    Dublin was the location of one of the largest slave markets in the world, a Viking slave market which trafficked in Irish slaves.

    Lots of people with a big interest in the Trans-Atlantic slave trade have no interest at all in the Trans-Saharan slave trade and the Indian Ocean slave trade if they're even aware these existed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 239 ✭✭Guildenstern


    The reparations for slavery from 200 years ago racket has to be one of the most bizarre of our modern issues, to surface in recent years, and there's been many of them.

    Manna from heaven to the BLM/SJW types and will no doubt keep them angry.

    Paul Murphy TD needs to make a statement, for the Irish angle. It'll keep him relevant. Must be at least 72 hours since we heard from him last.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,685 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Catholic emancipation only happened in 1828 before which Ireland was an official Protestant theocracy.

    Calvinistic theology among ruling elites, like Trevelyan, about God inflicting suffering on the deserving probably had more of an effect on the Famine than any other belief system. Since this mechanistic view of suffering and death arguably marred the relief response.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,709 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    ….



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,709 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    And there are people alive today benefiting from slavery.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,228 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    I'd suspect that nearly everyone in West Africa who has any wealth at all has close relatives who owned Slaves, not far off in time either.


    The US International Labour Office believes 7 in every 1000 Africans are slaves today.


    It'll never be rooted out, it was old practice Millennia ago



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,709 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Don't forget the Irish had their own slave trade, some Welsh or Cumbrian do-gooder used to go on about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,249 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Nobody today is responsible for what happened in the past.

    Having said that Charles Trevelyan was a total scumbag and I hope he died roaring.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,661 ✭✭✭buried


    Tragedy is right. Tragedy is that we didn't start killing the overseer's earlier.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,336 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    Reparations paid to whom exactly?

    She'd be better doing something useful with the money that would help people who need help right now.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,661 ✭✭✭buried


    She probably get a tax write off on her "charitable atonement" anyways, so she'd actually end up making money off it. The apple doesn't fall far from the arse.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭lmao10


    Obviously shes not responsible for it but she benefited from the money accrued by the actions of the man. That is where reparations come in. It's complex but it's not fair that she starts off on a higher playing field than others off the back of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,646 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    There has been a lot of anti-British brainwashing over the generations about the famine and it is amazing the amount of people who believe it. Fact is, in 1847, at the height of the Famine, Ireland exported 39,000 tonnes of wheat, and 98,000 tonnes of oats , and imported 199,000 tonnes of wheat, 12,000 tonnes of oats and 682,000 tonnes of maize. Net imports of 756,000 tonnes, a change of 1,140,000 tonnes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭BagofWeed


    I studied slavery in traditional African customs and it was a completely different type/form of slavery/role of the slave to what was going on in the Americas. African societal creation of wealth collapsed when the slave trade ended and that played a huge role in weakening Africa which then allowed the scramble for Africa to occur.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭Fritzbox


    And yet a million men, women and children starved to death at the time - maybe Alan Partridge was right: "the Irish shouldn't have been such fussy eaters". How do you explain this strange state of affairs?



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