Laura Trevelyan seeks atonement for the Famine/Slavery

Speak in Proverbs

I for one think she is a very brave woman for doing what she is doing. Diarmuid Ferriter fired the first shots highlighting how her great great great grandfather said “no Irish must die” and they did and condemned the famine as Gods punishment on the Irish people. We Irish are good at crawling around looking for crumbs of strategic and moral superiority over the English and it’s happening again to what should be taken as an attempt to open up and atone and heal the scars of the past for once and for all.

My views on it are complex and multi-faceted. There is no doubt the damage free market caused to the lives of Irish people at that time and there has to be limits set on it as such, but clinging to ring fenced protectionism and socialism will in the end cause wide spread poverty to a nation and do the opposite to what it purports to do which is prevent poverty. Any ideology taken out of the centre ground and to its extremes will cause harm.

Then there is the time in which all these events occurred. We were a Catholic nation but the calling on deliverance from above ends in these sorts of outcomes. Let me elaborate. Strict andherence to Catholic doctrine realises its end goal of personal destruction if we are to imitate the life of Jesus Christ. That seems to me to be the end goal. Even to this day the Irish nation is renowned for calling on deliverance from above which manifests in the north. It happened in WW1 and WW2 when the Nazis went wild and it provided an opening for our independence. But what was the widespread collateral damage outside of Ireland to these longings for deliverance and power? The destruction of the world as we know it. 

Nowadays the republicans align themselves foreign policy wise with Russia. In those days it was Germany and still is in some respects. Denial of the Israeli state, alliances with the Palestinians, anti-European and anti-internationalist sentiments, condemning the US for its policies of interaction and contribution the African nations in business. Alignment with the FARC in Colombia in some cases acting as political consultants for them in bringing arms into Colombia and profiting tens of millions from it and the drug trade there. 

Then with scorn going to luncheons and business dinners in the States and raising funds there while thumbing their nose at WW2 and the Unites States foreign policies. Its hypcricy and cretinism at the highest order. Worse, it’s criminal and the support of criminality and opposition to the current world order and the west.

Back in the times of the famine, there was much literature which gave rise to the destiny of nations and the direction in which they moved. For Ireland it was God and calling on Him for deliverance but these things should also be looked on in the context of the times in which they existed. Tolstoy wrote about resurrection in 1899 and seventeen years later the Irish Republic had a rising on Easter Sunday? These things aren’t coincidences, they are an amalgamation of ideas from the wrong sources and brought to fruition by anti-west sentiments.

Trevelyan had a part to pay in that he condemned the Irish to their fate as the will of God. John Mitchell’s Jail Journal advocated for slavery and the purpose of the Irish nation as an advocate of it because it is white. If our republican leaders are pro-slavery how can they condemn the famine at the hands of the British? They can’t. 

As for Trevelyan, he condemned the famine as the punishment of God but the times were shrouded in the literature of Tolstoy and extreme Catholicism in the wake of the enlightenment. People called on this destruction from the north and it manifested. It turned out to be personal destruction initially in the image of Christianity. It was also shaped around the famines of Russia and the extremism of their thought. It came about and has given the Irish people the moral high ground over England for the rest of history. 

But to say the Irish through their extremism and in some cases savagery (Mitchell) didn’t have a part to play in bringing it on themselves is wrong. Not the blight but the conditions of withholding food thereafter. We were and still are shrouded in religious extremism and in some ways savagery. I for one won’t be taking the moral high ground over Laura Trevelyan and will see things from both sides. There was much upheaval on the planet at the time and the famine was a terrible human tragedy but not a genocide.

Has chat GPT finally become sentient and joined boards?

Witcher

Are you sure you talked enough nonsense there OP?

So we have;

- Nazis

-WW1 & 2

-Tolstoy

-Britain

-God

-The Easter Rising

-FARC

-Catholicism

-Israel

-Russia

-Colombia

The one thing you barely mentioned...the Famine.

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546251#Comment_120546251

That would be an improvement would it not?

TheValeyard

As for the topic,

You dont punish kids for the actions of the parents.

Likewise Laura Trevelyan had no role in past events. Rather than reparations,etc a museum in England to the consequences of Imperalism,etc might be more fitting.

sheesh

just skimmed through it but I notice the Catholic church seemed to be partially to blame for the Famine.

As for the Trevellian woman seeking to make some sort of apology I think that is very nice of her and we should accept it.

Danzy

Self indulgent bollox to be claiming repentance or reparations for something some relation did generations ago.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546251#Comment_120546251

Reads like it. I was thinking I must start a thread and use chat gpt and see how it plays out.

He beat me to it.

Larbre34

I think she's got nothing to do with anything frankly, I don't believe in the sins of the father, especially 7 generations removed.

I think out of respect for the millions that died and were forced to emigrate, due to British intransigence and mismanagement at the time, she and everybody else should just shut up about tokenism now and leave them all rest in peace.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546302#Comment_120546302

Well the religion of the people was hotly fought over in the 19th century with zealots on both sides. Lot of fundraising for churches in those times as well.

HalloweenJack

I find the idea of her paying reparations to be a bit much but it is refreshing to see a prominent British voice coming out and discussing the unpleasant actions of the Empire, especially with the current nationalistic UK gov in charge.

Stephen_Maturin

https://youtu.be/LQCU36pkH7c

Lay off the glue OP

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546329#Comment_120546329

Chat GPT has a far more measured tone of voice and is actually really easily to spot due to its preference for the passive voice. Search for user Wibago on here, which is clearly a Chat GPT bot and you'll see what I mean.

This OP is just a crank.

Jack Daw

She's a loon, anyone that feels guilt over something an ancestor 170 years ago did is not even a slightly rational human being and is not to be taken seriously.

Anyone who'd accept this money for any reason other than pure greed (and I'd be quite willing to have some of her money myself for that reason ) is not to be taken seriously either.

j2

There's a saying in chess which goes "if you to bed with a gooey asshole you'll wake up with a fist-full of shine." Take from that what you will, but there will certainly be no money coming to the descendants of the famine's victimry.

DownByTheGarden

There is not one person alive today who didnt benefit from slavery.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546645#Comment_120546645

Yes because slavery was universal.

Dublin was the location of one of the largest slave markets in the world, a Viking slave market which trafficked in Irish slaves.

Lots of people with a big interest in the Trans-Atlantic slave trade have no interest at all in the Trans-Saharan slave trade and the Indian Ocean slave trade if they're even aware these existed.

Guildenstern

The reparations for slavery from 200 years ago racket has to be one of the most bizarre of our modern issues, to surface in recent years, and there's been many of them.

Manna from heaven to the BLM/SJW types and will no doubt keep them angry.

Paul Murphy TD needs to make a statement, for the Irish angle. It'll keep him relevant. Must be at least 72 hours since we heard from him last.

growleaves

Catholic emancipation only happened in 1828 before which Ireland was an official Protestant theocracy.

Calvinistic theology among ruling elites, like Trevelyan, about God inflicting suffering on the deserving probably had more of an effect on the Famine than any other belief system. Since this mechanistic view of suffering and death arguably marred the relief response.

silliussoddius

….

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546645#Comment_120546645

And there are people alive today benefiting from slavery.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120547226#Comment_120547226

I'd suspect that nearly everyone in West Africa who has any wealth at all has close relatives who owned Slaves, not far off in time either.

The US International Labour Office believes 7 in every 1000 Africans are slaves today.

It'll never be rooted out, it was old practice Millennia ago

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546682#Comment_120546682

Don't forget the Irish had their own slave trade, some Welsh or Cumbrian do-gooder used to go on about it.

Galwayguy35

Nobody today is responsible for what happened in the past.

Having said that Charles Trevelyan was a total scumbag and I hope he died roaring.

buried

Tragedy is right. Tragedy is that we didn't start killing the overseer's earlier.

nullzero

Reparations paid to whom exactly?

She'd be better doing something useful with the money that would help people who need help right now.

buried

She probably get a tax write off on her "charitable atonement" anyways, so she'd actually end up making money off it. The apple doesn't fall far from the arse.

lmao10

Obviously shes not responsible for it but she benefited from the money accrued by the actions of the man. That is where reparations come in. It's complex but it's not fair that she starts off on a higher playing field than others off the back of it.

Francis McM

There has been a lot of anti-British brainwashing over the generations about the famine and it is amazing the amount of people who believe it. Fact is, in 1847, at the height of the Famine, Ireland exported 39,000 tonnes of wheat, and 98,000 tonnes of oats , and imported 199,000 tonnes of wheat, 12,000 tonnes of oats and 682,000 tonnes of maize. Net imports of 756,000 tonnes, a change of 1,140,000 tonnes.

BagofWeed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120547276#Comment_120547276

I studied slavery in traditional African customs and it was a completely different type/form of slavery/role of the slave to what was going on in the Americas. African societal creation of wealth collapsed when the slave trade ended and that played a huge role in weakening Africa which then allowed the scramble for Africa to occur.

Fritzbox

And yet a million men, women and children starved to death at the time - maybe Alan Partridge was right: "the Irish shouldn't have been such fussy eaters". How do you explain this strange state of affairs?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550912#Comment_120550912

Did you count them? Or do you believe the people who heard from someone who heard from someone who thought they heard from someone that it was 1 million?

Only a few decades after the troubles in N.I., many young people in Ireland think the British army caused most of the deaths there: yet Republicans killed 60% of the total, the loyalists 30% and the security forces less than 10%. And 99.9% of the destruction to property was caused by Republicans.

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There has been a lot of anti-British brainwashing over the generations about the famine and it is amazing the amount of people who believe it. Fact is, in 1847, at the height of the Famine, Ireland exported 39,000 tonnes of wheat, and 98,000 tonnes of oats , and imported 199,000 tonnes of wheat, 12,000 tonnes of oats and 682,000 tonnes of maize. Net imports of 756,000 tonnes, a change of 1,140,000 tonnes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120551360#Comment_120551360

Who exported and imported it ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120551360#Comment_120551360

There was anti potato brain washing for most of my life , the mismanagement of our food by our “British” government and our own snakes only became common knowledge relatively recently

cheese sandwich

This Trevelyan woman seems like a narcissist. Im sure she thinks she’s doing good but to me it looks like pure attention-seeking. After slavery and the Famine, are there any other historical catastrophes she’s planning on taking responsibility for? The Black Death? Maybe the Sack of Rome by the Vandals?

joseywhales

You completely skipped the most important part, penal laws against Catholics, they were condemned to destitution systematically long before the famine.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120551465#Comment_120551465

Well my ancestors are prods and arrived in the 17century and had land and I’m Irish and won’t be apologising to anyone 😂

cheese sandwich

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120551646#Comment_120551646

Give us a few quid, will ya?

Liath Luachra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120551360#Comment_120551360

1841 census proved useful in ascertaining numbers who died and those who emigrated. Food exports increased during famine years largely to fuel the British industrial revolution, incidentally the British working class were large consumers of potatoes also due to low cost. British agriculture had suffered as the focus on industry increased and a reliable food source was necessary to keep the cogs going. The large presence of British army regiments to export the food essentially at gunpoint illustrates this. Of the largest landowners only one was Irish - O Neill. Church of Ireland bishops owned almost 700,000 alone, interestingly Trinity was one of the largest landowners. The majority were of British peerage. The implication that because exports increased, the farmer on the conacre benefitted is ridiculous.

Largest landowners c._of__i._bishops_irish_acreage.docx (live.com) data_on_57_largest.pdf (irishholocaust.org)

LANDLORDS - THE IRISH HOLOCAUST

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120551740#Comment_120551740

So what if 3% of the land in Ireland was owned by the church of Ireland during the famine? Protestants were 10% of the population then. Hard to believe how anyone could take that American (who claimed the FBI framed him for some murders) who is your source Chris Fogarty, seriously. He wrote "The C.of I. churches remain vacant on the hilltops of towns and villages across Ireland since the repatriation to England of the local C. of I. landlord and his support group. Also vacant since then are the Methodist and Presbyterian churches once attended mostly by the local landlord’s support staff who repatriated with him." If he visited Ireland he would find there were and are poor protestants then and now, as well as those not so poor. After 9/11, Americans are less likely to support terrorists. " Quote:  "among the eighty or so lawyers and law firms we contacted nationally, all initially avid for it, none was willing to accept the case." https://www.thepensivequill.com/2019/03/the-accidental-spy.html Sorry, I will not take history lessons from such a person as Fogarty, who knows little about modern Ireland, never mind Ireland during famine times, even though he wrote a "book" on it.

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There has been a lot of anti-British brainwashing over the generations about the famine and it is amazing the amount of people who believe it. Fact is, in 1847, at the height of the Famine, Ireland exported 39,000 tonnes of wheat, and 98,000 tonnes of oats , and imported 199,000 tonnes of wheat, 12,000 tonnes of oats and 682,000 tonnes of maize. Net imports of 756,000 tonnes.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120551433#Comment_120551433

I think my ancestors may have been oppressed by the Bronze Age Sea People.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549994#Comment_120549994

And what was it in the other years?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558779#Comment_120558779

Not so long ago, (four years ago) , trade figures show we imported 72,000 tonnes of spuds last year, mainly from Britain. At the same time we exported just 3,000 tonnes last year, worth a measly €1.7 million, and mainly to Britain and Northern Ireland. Why does Ireland import 44,000 tonnes of British potatoes each year?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/why-does-ireland-import-44-000-tonnes-of-british-potatoes-each-year-1.3721341

And in the past decade there were no makey upey soldiers forcing us to import so much, same as there was back in 1847.

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There has been a lot of anti-British brainwashing over the generations about the famine and it is amazing the amount of people who believe it. Fact is, in 1847, at the height of the Famine, Ireland exported 39,000 tonnes of wheat, and 98,000 tonnes of oats , and imported 199,000 tonnes of wheat, 12,000 tonnes of oats and 682,000 tonnes of maize. Net imports of 756,000 tonnes.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120559771#Comment_120559771

How about 1844, 45, 46,48,49?

Fritzbox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120551360#Comment_120551360

Are you for real? How about reading a history book - there's a lot to choose from - or even just a Wikipedia article? YouTube can be good sometimes as well.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120559999#Comment_120559999

Wiki can be edited by anyone. Some republicans have a vested interest in their propaganda.

Some historians leave a lot to be desired. For example, take the American ( he calls himself Irish-American) Chris Fogarty. He wrote "The C.of I. churches remain vacant on the hilltops of towns and villages across Ireland since the repatriation to England of the local C. of I. landlord and his support group. Also vacant since then are the Methodist and Presbyterian churches once attended mostly by the local landlord’s support staff who repatriated with him."  If you were an American reading that you would get the wrong impression. If he visited Ireland he would find there were and are poor protestants then and now, as well as those not so poor.

What the same author on the famine Chris Fogarty does not mention is that he was accused by the FBI of murder, and who do you think was linked to attempting to send arms to the provos etc?  

I recommend you read a history book written from a non-biased point of view, or better still go to primary sources when looking for your information.

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There has been a lot of anti-British brainwashing over the generations about the famine and it is amazing the amount of people who believe it. Fact is, in 1847, at the height of the Famine, Ireland exported 39,000 tonnes of wheat, and 98,000 tonnes of oats , and imported 199,000 tonnes of wheat, 12,000 tonnes of oats and 682,000 tonnes of maize. Net imports of 756,000 tonnes.

Fritzbox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562434#Comment_120562434

I have never even heard of Chris Fogarty - he doesn't sound very "main-stream". How did you manage to hear of him and why are you referencing him now when he wouldn't be considered a leading authority on the subject of the Irish famine of the 1840s.

Also why are you so presumptuous as to the nature and type of history books I have read? I'll decide for myself on my choice of reading and whether it follows a biased slant or not, thank you.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563127#Comment_120563127

Liath Luchra quoted him (Chris Fogarty) , and gave a link to his book / "work", on post no 40 of this very thread. You obviously have not read this thread nor know very much about the famine or the famine propaganda industry. Did not bother reading the rest of your post when you have not even bothered reading the thread / someone else's post 7 or 8 posts ago. Have a good evening.

Fritzbox

And you still haven't explained why one million people starved to death if there happened to be so much food knocking around. You have a good night too...

BaywatchHQ

One of the guests on BBC today on the Coronation was praising Queen Victoria for raising charity funds for the Irish famine.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563311#Comment_120563311

Probably closer to 100,000. Plenty of historical revisionism and brain-washing. Some authors of books on the famine like Chris Fogarty cannot even get the most basic of facts about modern day Ireland right, never mind what happened 180 years ago.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563579#Comment_120563579

The Catholic church had a huge amount property, money, art, etc in Europe and did not give anything, instead it collected from the poor to build more churches and cathedrals - should it not have given something to famine relief if it was that bad?

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There has been a lot of anti-British brainwashing over the generations about the famine and it is amazing the amount of people who believe it. Fact is, in 1847, at the height of the Famine, Ireland exported 39,000 tonnes of wheat, and 98,000 tonnes of oats , and imported 199,000 tonnes of wheat, 12,000 tonnes of oats and 682,000 tonnes of maize. Net imports of 756,000 tonnes.