Why have we so many housing "charity" quangos?

Fred Cryton

We must have at least half a dozen so called housing "charities". Honestly I've lost count. And they all seem to get prominent coverage in the media almost daily. With CEO's earning 6 figure salaries. I suppose you can be "not for profit" when you pay yourself so much in wages there's no profit left.

What we really have is a poverty porn industry thriving on taxpayer money and gullibility, and an Irish fascination with and fetishization of poverty. This is not the case in any other country I'm aware of. When something is unique to Ireland, we need to step back and think what's going on here. Usually it's unique to Ireland because the taxpayer is being taken for a ride.

And their untouchable arrogance has reached the point where they think they can essentially call the elected leader of this country a liar on national media.

FoxForce5

The state outsourced education to quangos in the 1920's , the state is outsourcing housing to quangos in the 2020's. Expect the same outcome.

MegamanBoo

I'd share your concerns about the homelessness 'industry'.

At the same time if what your referring to is Peter McVerry's now withdrawn claims, I still believe Leo lied.

FFG have been massaging figures and providing a false narrative around the housing crisis, and their failures to prevent it or deal with it, for a long time now. They need to go.

LongfordMB

Fully agree. Plenty of homeless people in the UK but we don't see homeless "charities" every day at the top of bbc news. There's a weird irish thing going on. Government probably too spineless to cut their funding.

Beta Ray Bill

They exist because someone genuinely wants to help but then some a$$hole accountant gets involved an wants to make money off it.

And its dead simple to do as well if you've enough capital

Set up a charity, house a few hundred people for a few weeks, run out of money, turn to the government looking for money telling them unless they give it those few hundred people will be made homeless. Government will pay up, as its easier to pay than deal with the fallout.

From then on in you're on the gravy train.

MegamanBoo is right, there is an industry there.

I never give to charity having been burned so often by people at the top of them and watching how they carry on.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447262#Comment_120447262

The UK is ten times the size of Ireland population wise.

Take a region in the UK with a population of about 5m with a similar urban/rural mix.

Study their local media and I'm sure you will find homeless "charities" top of the news.

markjbloggs

27 in Dublin alone, have no figures for the rest of the country but would not be surprised if it was over 100.

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/dublin/q-and-a-are-there-too-many-homeless-charities-operating-in-dublin-40951180.html

bucketybuck

A prominent "homeless" charity ended 2021 with €129million in fixed assets and €47million in funds.

Their income in 2014 was €10.6million, in 2020 it was €56 million. They receive circa €30million government funding each year, including €17.5million from Dublin city council alone last year.

The government recently announced a 4 billion euro package to address the housing crisis.

That is why there are so many housing and homelessness groups in the country.

whisky_galore

'Rich' country too starved to look after its own citizens.

Thelonious Monk

Is there anything you like about the modredn world Fred?

Dyr

When the taxpayers cash is being divvied out there's a cohort of people who will be under it with their beaks agape

If you took the funding the government diverts into these NGOs (and their directors salaries) and just handed it to the homeless you'd probably solve half the housing crisis, provided you dealt with mass immigration, but there's an entire sector of the NGO fiddle working to keep that show on the road.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447299#Comment_120447299

Can you give any examples of charities that were set up on the basis that you outlined above please?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447368#Comment_120447368

If that’s true, That means for all that money paid, I bet not one house was built

how many houses could of been built for €30mill

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447466#Comment_120447466

You can build all the houses you like, but if you can’t staff the supporting services, you’re never going to shift people out of homelessness.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447368#Comment_120447368

What precisely do you suppose those fixed assets are?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447512#Comment_120447512

You seem to be talking about homelessness which is connected only to something like drug addiction or mental health problems.

What about working homeless? Or those who developed/had worsened drug or mental health problems because of homelessness?

Leo was out with the same line lately, putting it all about individual issues when there's clearly a long ignored supply problem with housing.

And that's only part of the FFG false narrative on housing.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447551#Comment_120447551

Of course, there’s a huge supply problem with housing. But any form of housing still needs to be managed and maintained.

The services that these charities are funded to provide absolutely are focused on homelessness connected to addiction and mental health.

Cluedo Monopoly

Blame FG.

‘Quango cull’ results in just 17 fewer agencies – The Irish Times

‘Quango cull’ results in just 17 fewer agencies

Fine Gael had listed 145 quangos which would be terminated when it got into power

Furze99

Simples - it's a good business to be in.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447551#Comment_120447551

There will always be antisocial issues, there will always be someone making a tidy sum out of perpetuating them.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447299#Comment_120447299

I never give to charity

You never give to charity because you don't want to, please don't insult everyone's intelligence with some half baked nonsensical excuse.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447604#Comment_120447604

None of these charities were on the target list for culling. It’s not in the gift of Government to cull a charity. Government can cut funding, but has no direct control over the existence of the charity.

FG did manage to cull the Building Regulations Advisory Board, saving almost nothing, as the advisory members had full time jobs anyway. And we’re left with the utter disasters of pyrites and mica and people facing huge bills to bring badly built apartments up to code.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447642#Comment_120447642

There will always be antisocial issues, as long as we continue to perpetuate huge inequality in access to decent housing, education and employment.

But it’s easier to point the finger at NGOs.

Its like blaming hospitals, doctors and nurses for the existence of sick people.

Why do we have so many charities full stop? Breast Cancer Ireland competing with the Marie Keating Foundation. As I Am charity for autism up again the charity Keith Duffy set up. Age Action Ireland doing very similar work to Alone.

Charity in Ireland is now an industry and too many people are employed in it draining the funds that should be spent on the end users.

blackbox

Charities should not be allowed to pay any wages.

If people believe in the cause they should volunteer their time.

Almost everything that charities do should be done directly by government agencies.

Wezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447781#Comment_120447781

That isn't feasible when you need professional people to actually do the day to day work involved. A lot of what people are calling charities are actually NGO's, they may have started as a grassroots organisation around a table but have evolved over time. They are bound by legislation as they deal with vulnerable people so they can't just use casual labour from well meaning individuals, staff need to be professionally trained and qualified.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447781#Comment_120447781

So the likes of tradespeople should work for free?

Do you work for free yourself?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447744#Comment_120447744

Why do we have so many accountants? Why do we have so many butchers? Why do we have so many house painters ?

Why do we have so many dumb threads being repeated on board

NattyO

Charities / quangos in general perpetuate the problems they claim to solve.

There are many proofs of this - Ireland being a great example - if charities / quangos solved the problems they claim to, then Ireland, with the number of quangos we have, would have no social problems at all.

Africa, is of course, the best example of all. There has been an estimated 1.2 TRILLION dollars in aid sent to Africa (mostly sub-saharan Africa) over the past 30 years alone. Not to mention the millions upon millions of hours of help and expertise from foreign workers. Yet the problems besetting the continent are no closer to being solved now than they were 30 years ago.

Charities and quangos only exist as long as the problem they claim to address exists, therefore, as long as people are making money from it, the charities and quangos will ensure, consciously or otherwise, that the problem continues to exist.

Just as no car company will ever try to produce a car that last the customers lifetime, no charity will ever really try to solve the problem they were set up to address.

Viscount Aggro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447837#Comment_120447837

I agree.. they are not charities. Theres plenty of retired executives who would do this work gratis.

Its dishonest to present themselves as charities, when they are really "on the lump".

People in Ireland love free stuff.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447902#Comment_120447902

Charities are not in control of structures and policies to achieve an overall solution. They are funded by Government to provide basic services in housing, addiction, mental health. It’s not in their power to make the changes to eliminate such issues.

Do you blame the doctors and nurses in hospitals for all the sick people there?

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447728#Comment_120447728

The state provides free education right to third level.

Unemployment is in low single figures and Ireland has a generous welfare system, which accounts for most of the long term unemployed not wanting to go out and do a bit.

None of the is good enough for the left, they'll spout the old guff about people making a balls of their lives because of the "de inekwalittee Joe"

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447781#Comment_120447781

And you’re ok with the tax increase that will be required to pay all the staff in these services at full public sector pay and pension rates, presumably?

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448056#Comment_120448056

If there was a hospital where there was a near-unlimited number of doctors and nurses, with near-unlimited resources, and the patients just got sicker and sicker while the doctors and nurses kept saying "send us more money, we'll definitely help them if you just send us more money" then yes, I'd start to question whether these doctors and nurses are actually achieving anything.

Wezz

Good luck with that. When I first came here I worked for a “charity “ as a counsellor for people with addiction issues. Not a hope you will find enough qualified people willing to that for free. Most of the work involved in the ground wouldn’t be in a retired executive’s wheelhouse but people seem to be under the impression that this kind of work is sitting at a desk doing paperwork all day.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448058#Comment_120448058

That’s great news about the free education, where do I get my refund for all the third level fees, for all the expected additional contributions, for all the photocopy fees and materials fees? Try speaking to parents about the reality of free education.

Try to understand the inherent inequality of families who have generous access to broadband and laptops and educational trips and grinds.

And yes, we’ve lots of jobs, mostly sh1t jobs in retail or hospitality or care homes, getting close to minimum wage on zero hour contracts, with exponentially increasing bills for rent, food and heating.

But yeah, it’s all the fault of Peter McVerry and the Simon Community.

Fred Cryton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447327#Comment_120447327

Wow. 27 in Dublin alone, problem far worse than I thought.

Dr Turk Turkelton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447864#Comment_120447864

Accountants, butchers and house painters are needed by society and if they weren't they would be unemployed fairly quickly.

Quangos are a drain on society with numerous ones leeching off the same teat which there is no need for.

Some of them may be necessary but they need to be streamlined and the costs of them cut massively.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448073#Comment_120448073

Sorry, but what does “near unlimited” mean in this context? Have you any clue of the actual limits on government funding to charities, and the external factors driving demand for services, like the housing crisis that you might have heard of.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448120#Comment_120448120

Which ones aren’t necessary, and what kind of streamlining do you have in mind?

Would society benefit from streamlining of butchers and accountants?

Fred Cryton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447902#Comment_120447902

Correct. There is a misalignment of incentives. These "charities" / quangos are not incentivized to actually solved the problem as that would be trukeys voting for Christmas. instead they are incentivised to treat the symptoms of the problem superficially so they can be seen to be doing something with taxpayer cash, and even look for more.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448127#Comment_120448127

African aid: $1.2 Trillion over last 30 years

Irish housing charities: ???? billions over past 10 years - who knows? I'd love to see a value for money evaluation. I suspect that, like the African aid debacle, we'd discover that the billions poured into AHB's and housing charities would have actually built considerably more houses if they weren't strained through the mesh of "charity"

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448113#Comment_120448113

Like I said, its never enough, Joe taxpayer picking up the tab for free education right through college, and its "Waaay I had to pay for my own laptop, despite universities running a free laptop program, Waay I had to pay for my printing".

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058291328/why-have-we-so-many-housing-charity-quangos

You lost count at 6?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448066#Comment_120448066

At least we can be aware what those in the public sector earn.

Remember the Rehab/FAI scandals. Some of these quangos hide behind the privacy given by being a 'private' organization.

So despite receiving bucketloads of public funds it's never really clear where it goes. I don't think we've ever learned what the lovely Angela Kearn's remuneration was. God love her and all her entirely credible stuggles.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448154#Comment_120448154

You might want to study third level participation rates. The ones who don’t have laptops aren’t getting as far as third level to be able to access the very limited laptop schemes.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448144#Comment_120448144

Where did you get your trillion figure from please?

And maybe you’d like to come up with specifics so we’re not arguing over????? figures.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447864#Comment_120447864

Are accountants and butchers funded by the state and using state money to pay exorbitant salaries to several people doing exactly the same job?

Good example, both Alone and Age Action Ireland have a team of finance/accounting staff. Merge both charities, who both do very similar work anyway, and you don't have to pay as many accountants. The money saved on the accountants' salaries can then be directed to assisting the elderly people that these 2 charities were set up to do.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448066#Comment_120448066

And are you ok with all the administration costs in outsourcing all of these services?

From my time working in the sector every service had to have a huge amount of admin around sourcing and reporting on government funding. Which would then be replicated on the state side.

I very much doubt it's more efficient than the state directly providing services. IMHO it's more to do with outsourcing accountability and following a failed neoliberal ideology.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448203#Comment_120448203

The Trillion figure is generally accepted (Google is your friend) and is explained in detail in Greg Mills Expensive Poverty: Why Aid Fails and How It Can Work.

You were the one rabbiting on about how effective the housing charities are, so I assume you have those figures, as I clearly stated I don't.

Dr Turk Turkelton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448137#Comment_120448137

But they are streamlined- if there is too many of them some of them go out of business as they are in the real world.

In quango world if there is too many of them they just open another one and cry on the radio till the government gives them more taxpayers money.