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Why does the Catholic Church still gave control over some schools in Ireland? It's time this changed

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  • 07-03-2023 10:23pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 15,719 ✭✭✭✭
    Ms


    Let's end this. The Catholic Church should not have control of any schools in Ireland. Time for it to end.

    Time for Irish people to stand up and protest over this. The Government should take all schools off the Catholic Church.

    Post edited by AMKC on


«134567

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,269 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    The government can't forcibly take property from any one on a whim.

    Catholic churches own the land that schools are sited on. They will be involved for some time yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,884 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    They'll be gone in a while. It will take a number of years unfortunately, the catholic church lingers like a bad smell. But the numbers are not there to sustain it, either behind or in front of the altar.


    Implications of fall-off in priest numbers outlined in two rural Catholic dioceses


    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/03/05/implications-of-fall-off-in-priest-numbers-outlined-in-two-rural-catholic-dioceses/



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,784 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Do you feel the same way about the Church of Ireland and Muslim schools?

    Oh - and how many children do you have, and have you got involved with your local Educate Together or RETB?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,151 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    CONSTITUTION OF IRELAND

    Enacted by the People 1st July, 1937

    In operation as from 29th December, 1937


    EDUCATION

    ARTICLE 42

    1 The State acknowledges that the primary and natural educator of the child is the Family and guarantees to respect the inalienable right and duty of parents to provide, according to their means, for the religious and moral, intellectual, physical and social education of their children.

    2 Parents shall be free to provide this education in their homes or in private schools or in schools recognised or established by the State.

    3     1° The State shall not oblige parents in violation of their conscience and lawful preference to send their children to schools established by the State, or to any particular type of school designated by the State.

    2° The State shall, however, as guardian of the common good, require in view of actual conditions that the children receive a certain minimum education, moral, intellectual and social.

    4 The State shall provide for free primary education and shall endeavour to supplement and give reasonable aid to private and corporate educational initiative, and, when the public good requires it, provide other educational facilities or institutions with due regard, however, for the rights of parents, especially in the matter of religious and moral formation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,719 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Yes I do feel the same way. No church should have power like that.

    The Catholic Church is the worst do. They abused there power for years and all schools should have been taken of them then. It's a disgrace they still run schools in this country.


    No I do not have children but I have nieces and nephews.


    Not sure if there is an Educate Together around here or a RETB.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,615 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Just don't send yer kids to a RC school. Or should I say a school on RCC land.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,821 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I often think that a lot of church property was procured using revenues from ill gotten gains. For example... Forced slave labour in laundries, industrial schools and mother and baby homes. Vaccine trials. Selling babies through forced adoption.

    They should have zero say in the education of children. They lost that right a long time ago and they continue to show little remorse for abuse survivors unless it's forced out of them.

    Post edited by Cluedo Monopoly on

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,151 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    In the USA, UK, and other countries, parents queue up to get their children into a religious school.

    I'd hate to see an ETB monopoly, every school owned by the State.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,416 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    "some schools" I think it's still nearly 90% that have a Catholic ethos.

    There's a problem with separation when the church owns a lot of the property,but having specific religious teaching in state run schools is obviously odd in this day and age.

    Not entirely sure if the problem is not political though,the state sets the curriculum after all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Given the growing prevalence of "Woke" religion. A very dogmatic and puritanical set of creeds (albeit subject to change, whatever the latest thing is).

    I think I'd prefer the kids going to a school with the ethos of the modern liberal wishy-washy Catholic Church. And I say that as a non-believer.

    Taoiseach Leo Varadkar backs teaching of trans issues after primary schools voice opposition - ‘Trans people exist’ - Independent.ie

    Lots of people and groups "exist". Who is denying trans people exist? Should everyone tiny minority group, community, mindset etc have a place on the primary curriculum?

    I had an Irish Catholic education a few decades ago, and to be honest, I learned almost nothing about Catholicism, until I started reading about the Reformation.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,416 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Teaching about religion rather than a religion seems fair and relevant in learning about different cultures.

    Catholicism may be wishy washy,but it ain't that long ago that it was a close cousin to the Taliban. More important information than learning how to make a Bridget's Cross.



  • Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭Juza1973


    If the State wants to organise itself to do that, it can try. But it it had to close all Catholic schools today it would condemn Ireland to illiteracy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭Ham_Sandwich


    cataholic church has done enough damage tear down churches and build housing we need housing not churches



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭donaghs


    I think I see 3 points there from you, not really sure how what the overall point is?

    To suggest that the most conservative phase of Irish Catholicism was similar to the Taliban is simply mental. Maybe they covered up the priests executing people on GAA pitches?

    But Irish society has changed since, then and its has changed for good reasons mostly (if you take the 1950s as the high-point of Catholic Ireland, it had a much lower murder rate - just to make the point that not everything was worse back then).

    In theory, I think religion should be out of schools. But from looking at what's happening in Ireland now, and what's happened in the UK. Some types of schools which kept a religious ethos seemed to be better at maintaining eductional standards, and more resistant to enforcing the latest trendy ideology without thinking through the consequences.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,416 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    The whole trans thing was part of the sex education programme anyway,but the point I was making was that learning about religion as a subject rather than a specific religion is quite a useful asset for the multicultural country we've become.

    I'm sure there's no need to go into what the church did to young mothers,children and anyone that had the temerity to question them. Not quite the football stadium,but not a million miles away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,928 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    it's gas that you still get apologists in this day and age for them. even john paul II was in the news yesterday for covering up child abuse in poland. like it's basically a giant paedo ring and people want them in our schools. bizarre.



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭redlough


    Based on the spelling mistake in the title of the thread we are already well on the way :-)



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭redlough


    Dont want to send your kids to a Catholic school then don't send them

    Not sure why you think then everyone else should not have the choice because you have decided what you want to do.

    Just the latest in a long line of "Oh I don't agree with this so everyone should have to adhere to my opinion threads"


    We had a bad situation in this country that everyone had to be catholic or they got looked down on/shut down opposite opinions, now we are moving to a situation that if you still want to be a catholic that everyone wants to shut you down and the options you have.

    Just let people make their own decision instead of telling everyone they have to abide by yours



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭donaghs


    I'm no fan of the Catholic Church, I just think its sometimes preferable to the other ideologies.

    If you look at abuse within other organisations, they dont act much differently. Irish swimming, islington council, etc.

    There are almost no clergy left to be "in our schools". Its more about ideas, ethos and ideology now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭JohnnyFortune


    Should we also ban the Irish Muslim Council, who are also against transgenderism being taught in Muslim schools, or is it just the Catholics you are after??



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    We're mulitculutral now? When did that disaster occur?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,928 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I'd be just after the Catholics as most Irish kids have no choice but to go to a Catholic school



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,719 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    What's wrong with being multi cultural? IT benefits both us and them and we are all Human on this planet. If Humans are ever to go out into the Universe and meet other races we first have to except that we are all the same race on this planet just with different believes or ways of doing things and work to the betterment of all of humankind. So weather you are a Woman, or a man or Trans or even a coloured person that should not matter and neither should your sexuality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭PaoloGotti


    I agree with the CC’s stance on not teaching kids about transgenderism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Go out into the universe? That's the purpose of multiculturalism? You've watched too much Star Trek.

    Ever wonder why nobody outside of western liberals have any interest in their countries becoming multicultural? Ever wonder what happened to all those Because it's bollocks. Even the Mulitculti Europeans have started to admit it's all bollocks but, as always, Paddy is late to the party.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,912 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Yes but the Bouncy Castle Catholic set will keep it going for a few more years. Many ppl in their 40's and 50's are still in the god squad, albeit maybe not mass-goers and they'll be around for 40-ish years hence. Don't forget a lot of 'new Irish' are attendees, Polish especially.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,416 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    It's the liberal western countries people want to move to and most of those countries need them to maintain their populations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Kinda weird, don't you think, that these liberal western paradises can't maintain their own populations. That's the most base level requirement of any sucessful culture. So mulitculturalism is just a side effect of of liberal societies inability to maintain their own population?



  • Registered Users Posts: 478 ✭✭Run Forest Run


    The goal of the multiCULTuralists is actually to wipe out all distinct cultures, and create one big indistinguishable blob of human misery!

    They're trying the same thing in many other areas of life. Gender etc etc... attack dismember and discombobulate everyone and everything. There's very little logic to their actions, other than the desire to change everything they see around them. Change for the sake of change!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,416 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Not enough children to replace those dieing leads to an ageing population.

    Our comfortable liberal western society has led to people having choices. Unless you want to force women to have a minimum of three children I'm not sure what's to be done.



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