The eviction ban

LongfordMB

Any LL watching that Katie Hannon program last night will have got the fear of God put into them. Agitated young socialists and PBP people talking of "overholding" and Eoin o Broin tacitly endorsing it. Member of a governing party saying we should legislate to prevent LL selling their own asset! Jesus.

None of them intelligent enough to realise what they are saying is only making things worse for themselves.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356434#Comment_120356434

But they are building more, what we don't need to do is build houses now that will end up getting knocked down in a few years like we had after the Celtic tiger. Like rezoning, if they have zoned for commercial then it was done for reasons, changing it now will mean long term are those houses sustainable?

I would prefer to see replanning to move towards apartments only in major cities. Dublin has enough houses and at this stage we should be building apartments. Especially with poor quality public transport spreading the city out more and more is not the answer.

We also need to change the laws to attract landlords back, or as agreed post the crash let large rental companies into the market, not have weekly press conferences from some political parties complaining about these companies.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356517#Comment_120356517

The lack of insight from the media is very disappointing, but I think it actually reflects the decline of the last 20 years, as less money has gone into the press due to the rise of online advertising.

It's not that complicated; measures such as an eviction ban and the RPZs have encouraged thousands of people to leave the rental market. That has resulted in fewer properties being available, which is obviously bad for potential tenants and wider society. So, wisely if belatedly, the government are removing the eviction ban.

But large sections of the media have opted not to cover that, going for more simple stories about people facing short term difficulty, rather than the reality that the eviction ban would inevitably do more harm than good if reinstated.

Tbf the Sunday Times editorial last weekend went through the issues quite well and explained why the right move has been made. But the likes of RTE allowing these jackasses to spout claims they themselves know are untrue or at best disingenuous, is a real shame.

Our media, political class and of course our housing market are all in terrible state and there are links between all three.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356032#Comment_120356032

Those TV programmes have become politicised. Neither of the tenants were credible.

Emblematic

I thought more could have been discussed about how we got into the situation where RPZs and late the no-fault deferment had to be introduced, and the fact that many TDs are landlords themselves, and therefore would have been unlikely to take action that would undermine their vested interest.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120357341#Comment_120357341

... and yet TDs have taken actions that undermine their supposed interests as landlords, reducing the amount of interest relief that can be claimed, increasing the amount of tax that needs to be paid, increasing required standards for rentals, etc, etc. That is before we even get to the issues around evicting tenants who don't pay etc.

How would you explain all that?

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120357490#Comment_120357490

I would explain things like that as panic measures dealing with the consequences of years of prior inaction and mismanagement. Hence the need to offer some basic minimum standard of accommodation or putting some limits on rents that would other wise go through the roof. These measures should not have been necessary in the first place but it is Government's pandering to vested interests that brought things to the initial crisis and, unfortunately, made the measures necessary.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120357950#Comment_120357950

And the vested interest has mostly been on the left side of the political spectrum as one left wing party tries to outdo another in there rush to be seen as the protector of the renter.

Conor Skehan made a tell comment last night when the PBP counsiller started on encouraging over holding.

He said '' you are only making it harder on people looking to rent to find places in future'' or similar words to that effect.

They are encouraging small LL to sprint out the door and they have done nothing to encourage them to stay.

Sunny Disposition

The Government's attempts to limit rent rises has been a huge factor in their explosion.

The recession saw many people become accidental landlords, and very many of them wanted to get out of it. But that was exacerbated by foolish policies that intensified the scarcity of rentals. And the picture is still getting worse. And most landlords expect SF will do what it can to make things even more difficult, so the issue is likely to continue getting worse.

If the State had been less interventionist more people would have stayed in the market and there would have been small scale investors, meaning more money going into property meaning more houses being built. But the Government felt it had to be seen to do something, even if it was the wrong thing.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358013#Comment_120358013

As I said in an earlier post, it is what happens when you pander to vested interests over a number of years without looking at the total picture. Things come to a head and measures need to be taken to protect those who haven't been pandered to. And of course the vested interests don't like it then.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358034#Comment_120358034

Yes, we don't like theses things now but the point I was trying to make was that things were going wrong long before any sort of RPZ was introduced. However because particular aspects of the market, in this case the landlords, weren't themselves suffering (in fact quite the opposite, they never had it better) nothing was done to ease supply problems until things inevitably came to a head and protections had to be introduced. A different governement might have seen things coming and taken action but ours did not and we are left with the fiasco today.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358036#Comment_120358036

What vested interest did government pander to.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331627#Comment_120331627

no for new entrants, no cap

Red Silurian

Isn't it amazing the difference between the legislation underpinning the eviction ban and that underpinning COVID-19 restrictions

Eviction ban - said it would last 6 months, 6 months later, gone, all in one go!

COVID Restrictions- Said it would last 2 weeks back in March 2020. Mask wearing was the last restriction removed almost 2 years later in March 2022 after 5* extensions to the legislation

*Open to correction on exact number of extensions but I think it was 4-6 months extension at a time and was extended for the last time in January 2022

tinsofpeas

It will be genuinely interesting to see what happens as a result.

On the one hand you could reasonably expect chaos, on the other hand this country has a remarkable knack of limping ever downwards.

All details aside, I think everyone can agree this situation, and country in general, is a dead man walking, it's a matter of when it keels over, not if.

Some people got wealthy out of it, most got hardship out of it, and a husk it's what's left that ALL have to live in.

Lots to be heard of "But the economy!". Let's put that in perspective for fear of being innured to what a crisis entails.

If it were reversed, imagine ireland as a country constantly pumping out one estate after another, apartment after apartment, year in, year out, year in, year out, until there's multiple homes per person at ridiculously low prices, zero demand.

All while there's a genuine economic crisis, year in, year out, year in, year out. Every year worse than the last.

Imagine someone pointing out "but look at all the useless homes we keep building, it's amazing!"

You'd rightfully tell such a gombeen to feck off. Right?

In other words, the "amazing economy" we supposedly have, when compared against actual needs, isn't worth a stale shaite.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120351306#Comment_120351306

Well actually, the overall situation on the ground does change in the following situation.

Tenant isn't paying rent, refuses to move, landlord evicts and sells. House is bought by a young couple. So people who were not paying their way are replaced by people who are paying their way, and the moral hazard to society is reduced.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120351306#Comment_120351306

No your right, because nobody has access to the information that can contradict you.

homeless numbers may increase, but others are going to be getting a home.

and all it does is continue to distract from the source and solution to the problem which is supply.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120357950#Comment_120357950

Of course it could also be due to the difficulty in achieving the required construction of houses. Particularly in the context of a devastated construction sector after the housing bubble burst, a rapidly growing population, the covid shutdown, inflation caused by the Ukraine war and enormous numbers of refugees arriving. Rather than say some sort of landlord led conspiracy for example, which is what you seem to be suggesting.

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358463#Comment_120358463

Maybe you could say you're taking a longer view of it then, as if the burgeoning inequality continues apace, then it all falls dead anyway.

A big race to emulate the United States, wealthy people living in gated communities afraid of their shadow or to set foot outside their rapidly shrinking safety all while poverty deepens for more and more.

Maybe south Africa is a better example.

At any rate, sustainable, it ain't.

The economy and the money means little, evidently, when all critical societal services are falling apart.

If money was the answer to these problems of housing and healthcare, we'd be flying. If a booming economy was improving society, we'd be laughing.

But they don't help, as contradictory as it seems, otherwise we wouldn't have these escalating problems year after year.

Worse than simply not helping, this apparent wealth and apparent economy are being used as excuses to ignore reality. "But look at all the money", yeah, so where is it going? What's improving? Where's the infrastructure? What's the plan? What's the vision?

It's all a bit emperors new clothes.

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358589#Comment_120358589

I appreciate the optimism.

However it's long past time to see reality here. They are not going to fix the housing crisis. It isn't fixable.

I read recently that there were 120k immigrants into Ireland last year. Similar if not more for this year.

And the Government is struggling to build 30k?

You hardly need a mathematics degree to see that not only is the housing crisis not being fixed, it has every single factor pointing towards "worse than ever"

But hasn't the last 10 years been the same anyway, each year worse than the last?

Let's be serious, this is a conceptually broken system that is doing what it was invariably going to do; breaking.

You'd have infinitely better hopes of winning a national lottery than thinking this housing crisis is to be fixed.

The best that can be hoped for is a semi-controlled implosion. And even then I'd rather a lottery number.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358476#Comment_120358476

But all of these came later. There were huge problems renting in Ireland before the bubble burst. Only at the very peak,when Ireland was producing 50k units a year, and for a period shortly after that did renting become vaguely tolerable.

Murph85

I read a great comment a week or so ago about the Irish government. " you can make short term and bad decisions, but you can't escape the consequences of them"

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358923#Comment_120358923

I don't agree that there were huge problems renting before the bubble burst. I found it easy enough to find both house shares and apartments (2003-2012). In 2007 I was paying 1250 for a really nice 1 bed apartment in Blackrock (dublin). In 2009 after the bubble burst I got it down to €900 as there were other apartments in the same building available for that. I didn't feel any particular sympathy for my landlord even though it was part of his pension. The previous property crisis was one of buying, not renting. The media was cheer leading the relentless rise of property prices, completely the opposite to now. After the bubble burst, prices were dropping until at some point in 2012 (when I started looking to buy), we bought early 2013. It was relatively easy to buy at that time as there was not a lot of competition, a lot of people still expecting further drops etc, it was also hard to get a mortgage if you were not in a fairly stable job I guess. I am not sure at what point things took off, but it was certainly some point after 2013.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358463#Comment_120358463

One of the reasons we have record household savings is because people are reluctant to invest in property and become landlords because of the uncertainty. The government has repeatedly punished landlords over the last half-decade and the alternative in Sinn Fein and PBP is even worse. People sit on their money as a result.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358463#Comment_120358463

I moved to Germany 18 months ago. Someone from my old company sent me details about a position that had opened up. It's a senior position in the tech industry. I didn't bother applying because they're not allowing remote work and I'd have to move back to Dublin. I can't justify spending three times what I pay here for an apartment that would be half the size. And even with the pay bump, I'd be worse off financially. And that's if I was lucky enough to actually find somewhere to live.

I might move back to Ireland in a year or two,but if I do, I'll have to buy an apartment. It's just not possible to rent in Ireland at the moment. It's impossible to find anywhere, if you do it costs a fortune, and you have no security because landlords can kick you out.

I would be one of the "haves". I'd be in a job close to 6 figures and I can't see any reason to live in Dublin except I'd be closer to family in the west of Ireland. Thing is that Ireland's transport is so crappy it took hours to see them anyway.

Stuff like the rental crises does affect the economy. It'll take longer for it to affect GDP/GNP but it will. Ireland's current economy is based on foreign direct investment. It's based on multinationals like pharmaceutical companies and tech firms. They came because of high levels of education, lower wages than the US, etc. When they needed to they could expand operations for EU countries and stay in Ireland because of the large number of people who came. But they're going to run out of workers. People will make the same decision that I did and decide that Ireland is just too expensive.

Ireland doesn't have natural resources. We don't make our money from mining minerals or anything like that. We make our money from people, from talent. Without them, it will really hurt the economy.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120360355#Comment_120360355

And here's the thing about the previous bubble. It was a bubble. The properties and rents were unnaturally high. After the crash, about 2012-2015 properties were at a lower level and that's probably where they should have stayed. Rents were affordable for most people. People on the average wage could save and buy a house.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120360666#Comment_120360666

The rents were relatively low, at least compared to now, during the last property bubble. It was the house prices that were elevated. This was due to the fact that it was very easy to get a mortgage at high multiples of earnings. Prices would only remain at 2012 levels if demand remained the same. As soon as the economy improved there was increased demand. People selling their homes will naturally look to get the highest price, they aren't running a charity. We are probably moving to more German levels of home ownership I think, with increased REIT involvement in the rental market making it possible to rent for decades. A property company will not need the property back for their child going to college or whatever, so I would see that as a good thing.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361376#Comment_120361376

I doubt yours is a popular opinion and wouldn't be adopted by any of the political parties but you are spot on. The current system has workers sharing small apartments in the city centre at they look out their windows to see lovely houses that they have paid for through their taxes housing people who do not work at all. It is quite obscene really.

As they return to their apartments after a long days work they run a gauntlet of drug users and pushers and guys involved in organised crime.

I am thinking here of the north inner city - Railway Street, Foley Street etc. This whole area which is perfectly placed could be redeveloped to house workers that actually contribute something to the country.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361376#Comment_120361376

I think this could be a winning strategy and agree with it. I think it is possible to build housing estates/apartment blocks for low income workers to rent and for higher earners to buy or rent at a more affordable rate. I don't think it is a good idea to pack (20%) new build areas with Low Work Intensity Households as we are doing now. The cohort that would benefit from this would be 80% or more of the population. I think FG are trying to be something for everyone and in the end they are really nothing for anyone. They piss off those who pay for everything as they get nothing, the unemployed class are not going to vote for them anyway, we need a "Help the Workers" party, it doesn't exist at the moment.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361633#Comment_120361633

That is what I said 🤔

bluedex

Ok boys and girls, time for today's fairytale:

Once upon a time, in the far away continent of Europeland, there was a nation called GoodButNotPerfect, or GBNP for short. This was a fair and prosperous land, with one the most equal societies in whole wide world. It had a benign, temperate climate, and was safe from most of the natural disasters that befell other nations, like earthquakes, volcano eruptions, life-threatening wildfires and floods. It had a much envied proportional election system for government and a progressive taxation system. It did have a violent and and poverty-ridden recent past, mainly because of their greedy, oppressive neighbour, Great Brainless (GB for short), which it had successfully overcome. All in all, it was one of the best nations in the whole wide world for quality of life. It aspired to someday change it's name from GoodButNotPerfect to AbsolutelyPerfect, something no nation had ever done in the history of the whole world.

However, it did face some significant problems, like every other nation in the whole wide world. Firstly, there was a shortage of one of the basic essentials, called Units. These Units were expensive items, of various fixed sizes, in a fixed location, but they were a requirement for the people of GBNP to have a happy life. Not everyone could afford to buy one, but there were other options: you could share with your family who owned one or you could rent one from someone. Some people had more than one Unit, they bought a second one as a pension or maybe inherited one from family. A lot of people borrowed money to buy them, from the moneylenders in GBNP. However, GBNP's population increased very quickly in a short space of time, a lot of it due to immigration. This was because it was a prosperous land and people were returning to their homeland or seeking their fortune, but also because of refugees from wars and conflicts in other lands. It was very difficult to produce units quickly enough for everyone, as they were costly and time consuming to make, and subject to a lot of regulation. So, a shortage of Units was the result. It became particularly hard for the people who rented Units to find any, something which we will return to.

The second problem was a group of people in the nations population called The Freeloaders, who expected the nations government to supply them with everything for free, including Units of their preferred size and location, and to run their lives for them so that they had no personal responsibility. This group also reproduced rapidly, in order to avail of more of the nations generous welfare.

The third problem was the opposition parties to the nations government were very cunning and cynical in their drive to obtain power. The main opposition party was called So Farcical (SF for short). Whenever there were plans to produce more Units, they objected and prevented them being produced as they knew this would make the problem worse and make more people angry that the government had not solved the problem. They promised that they would do what no-one else in the world could do, and solve the Unit problem immediately and once and for all. They claimed to have a Magical Money Tree that would assist them. The Pea Brained People party (PBP for short) also always objected to everything without having anything sensible to say. These opposition parties were heavily supported by the Freeloaders.

This tale is about the private citizens of GBNP who owned Units and rented them to people who didn't own any. Most of these owners were good but a small number were bad, and most renters were good but a small number were bad. The bad ones made life extremely difficult and stressful for the other good party, and it was tricky to figure out if you were engaging with a good one or bad one beforehand. The owners who rented paid a large amount of tax every year to the nations government on the revenue they received, sometimes more than their net income, but did so to keep their Unit for sale, or to give to a family member, in future years.

Due to constant and increasing criticism and pressure from the Freeloaders and the opposition parties, the nations government made some very foolish, short-sighted and ill-advised decisions in their effort to solve the Units rental problem, over a number of years. They forbid the owners to raise the price of the rental, no matter how much the input cost rose, the demand rose or the market developed. They created a special committee, the Ruining Things Brigade (RTB for short) which made it difficult for owners to get their Units back in good condition and made their life more difficult in general. They passed legislation which made the renting process more confusing, more difficult, and gave them and their Units less protection from the bad renters. Finally, they closed down a large part of the Unit rental market by forbidding owners from taking possession of their Units for a long period of time, even if they needed to use them. You ask: in the face of all these overwhelming obstacles, why would the owners not stop renting their Units and sell them to people who wanted to buy them? Well, that is exactly what happened. All the owners sold their Units. The people who had enough money to buy Units were very happy, but the people who didn't have enough money to buy and rented instead were very, very unhappy. Now they had to share a Unit with their family or friends. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth by the opposition parties and their supporters, the Freeloaders, who complained that there was now no supply of Units for the people who didn't have enough money to buy them. Sensible people tried to point out that this was the result of all the policies that the opposition had insisted on, and the Freeloaders had wanted. In fact SF and PBP and others like them had said they would go even further with these policies, as they didn't believe the owners should have any rights to their Units, they should be made surrender them to the Freeloaders. However, the opposition and the Freeloaders wouldn't listen, they were too busy wailing and moaning and blaming everyone else in the nation of GBNP.

I wish I could say there was a Happy Every After to this fairytale, but there isn't...

Now, luckily this is just a fairytale, as obviously nothing this stupid or crazy could happen in the real world inhabited by intelligent humans. So I don't want any comments pointing out things people disagree with, it's not real, it's just a simple story!

mrslancaster

Not a fairytale @bluedex, it happened. Reports that new legislation from FFG will restrict who a landlord can sell to - first refusal to tenant, then the council or approved housing body. If that is legislated for, will the government decide who homeowners can sell to? I keep reading that anything can happen once it's in the interests of the common good.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361376#Comment_120361376

@BlueSkyDreams wrote:

"And to walk to work from a reasonably priced property that they own, not rent."

So the current situation where landlords are selling up might be considered beneficial to this cohort? Lots of flats for sale flooding the market.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358589#Comment_120358589

For who though?

Are you suggesting we just keep building and building houses for everyone who says they need one?

Where does that end? No one buys a house but knows mams expects the government to give you one?

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364314#Comment_120364314

reality is putting them in prime real estate is cheaper for the tax payer, you and me.

rents might be more but the supports and services exist in greater numbers there whereas to invest in them elsewhere where they either don't exist or barely exist costs a lot more and dwarfs the rent costs of prime real estate.

anyway such a state sponsored social cleansing program quite rightly will not happen.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361376#Comment_120361376

Depends. I have no problems with some small neighborhoods being expensive and lacking social housing but not whole areas. So I might not expect grand canal docks to have a lot of social and affordable housing, but if you were to say everywhere from the liberties across to the Irish sea, then I'd have a problem with it. Or on the north side all of Dublin 1 & 7. No one particular group should get preferential treatment over a huge area.

I do think that a teacher with 10 years experience should be able to afford to rent or buy a small 1 bed flat. And I mean small on continental standards, not Irish standards. Irish apts are tiny. And it doesn't have to be in the very centre but it should be with a reasonable cycling distance.

And we need to put more effort into developing dublin towns. By that I mean places like Blanch or Ongar. Here in germany everything is always within a 15 min walk. So there's whole communities within cities. Dublin went with sprawled out housing estates so there's many people living in the city who would need a car just to do the basics like getting a weekly shop. It's ridiculously low density even close to the city centre.

The last place I rented in ireland was about 25m2. It was damp, there were holes in the walls. It was north county Kildare and I was paying about a grand a month. And I was lucky to be paying that little for it. I don't miss it at all and I have no desire to return to a rental crises that's got even worse.

And just to agree with you, the build to rent developments are crazy. they're ridiculously expensive and out of reach for even those on good wages. We need more, large apartment developments that can go into the hands of ordinary buyers and renters. Not just in the city centre but across dublin and even Ireland. I love my apt here in germany. It's nearly 100m2 and costs slightly more than my last apt in Ireland. And I'm 10 minutes walk from the centre of a large german city. If this was Ireland I'd have to pay at least 3 times as much.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364471#Comment_120364471

It has happened before. See the congested districts board and the clearing of the tenements and to a lesser extent Ballymun regeneration.

A carrot approach would definitely be required but it is not impossible to do. There is zero political will to do it though so it is a moot point.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364577#Comment_120364577

you can pay my share of the cost then because i do certainly mind that it would cost more to ultimately not achieve the aim.

you are never going to have only working people in a city, especially in countries like here or the UK, no matter how much cleansing is done.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364580#Comment_120364580

if you are moving people deliberately from areas to move in people deemed to be deserving or something similar that is cleansing.

we don't drive the workers out of the cities, what has happened is that we have promoted property ownership at all costs and at the expense of all other options, this means in turn house prices are ridiculous and those who choose to buy a house end up buying where they can aford which is far out.

nobody is housed for free, rent is required to be paid by all tenants of social and other subsidized housing.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364868#Comment_120364868

very different times though, the tenaments were dangerous and the conditions were horific, therefore something did have to be done in that case.

however what was done were those from those areas were simply thrown in to the towerblocks and shur it will be grand, and then we had to engage in a huge regeneration program of those places which were effected.

there is 0 political will because it was tried and failed, hence the approach of mixed developments which break down barriers and remove the old classist and out of date views.

of course there will be some bad people about and the way to deal with that is more gardai.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120366254#Comment_120366254

Yes but because of this policy we have an accommodation crisis

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120366213#Comment_120366213

Not strictly true when you see the level of arrears in council rents in Dublin and the lack of appetite to collect

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120366376#Comment_120366376

we have an accommodation crisis yes but it's not because of the necessary mixed development policy, but because we have not being building council housing meaning the private sector have been left to house everyone rather then just housing those who can afford to use it's services.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120366381#Comment_120366381

to be fair it is true, rent is required to be paid.

i agree the councils need to collect but that requires the council itself being able to take any money at source such as from wellfare benefits.

it would have to be the councils themselves though rather then some outsourced private contractor that would cost what is owed in the first place to collect what is owed.

i suspect that is the reason why the councils won't collect because they would have to hire a private collection agency which would cost ridiculous money, but that is just what i suspect and maybe there are other reasons.

but collecting what is owed can be done.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120366598#Comment_120366598

it is cleansing.

anyone who is in the city needs to be there as otherwise they actually wouldn't be there, whether you agree with their need or not isn't relevant really.

only the extremely wealthy truely pay their own way in ireland, the rest of us don't fully pay our own way as we receive public services.

bringing down transport emissions can be done by more public transport as well as yes building council housing.

social wellfare tenants aren't paying market rent because they can't afford to, otherwise they wouldn't be in social housing, however rent is still rent whether market rate or subsidized rate.

they have to be housed in prime locations as that is where they live and over time it will show greater participation in the work place from those who would like to work but find it hard to gain employment.

Emblematic

The Independent puts a rather negative spin on something that is potentially good news down the line if implemented and regulated properly.

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/cuckoo-funds-and-the-state-snap-up-42pc-of-new-homes-as-first-time-buyers-feel-the-squeeze-42388816.html

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120366946#Comment_120366946

If you want to be accurate, a huge amount of our tax comes through multinationals funneling profits from other european countries. So they're the ones paying all of our way.

Besides I've never had traffic with that kind of argument. A teacher earns less than me and provides more service to society. the same for guards, nurses, paramedics bus drivers and even shop workers. I work in a niche, high skilled job so I get paid more and pay more taxes. Tax returns that I make don't reflect my value to society, just my value to my employer. I save them far more than they pay me.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120368546#Comment_120368546

It isn't a huge amount coming from multinationals actually, about 16% corporation tax (including local companies):

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120368546#Comment_120368546

I think it is a good idea to make sure people who need to work in the city can live nearby if possible. It makes zero sense to me to have people not working living in the city in subsidised accommodation while key workers are having long commutes, or even worse schools/hospitals cannot fill vacancies because of the housing shortage.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361376#Comment_120361376

I've been saying this for years. Take the city back from the forever home, forever unemployed and sell/rent those valuable properties to people who work and pay tax. Use the funds to build housing units outside of Dublin. Move the freeloaders out there. If Chantelle wants to live next door to mammy, then either she pays market rates, or mammy moves to a unit beside her.

Make exceptions for disabled people, but not for chancers claiming they are disabled because of anxiety.