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Why wont die hard GAA fans admit football these days is muck?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭crusd


    All existence is not defined by what a poster may have said on boards.

    So you have never watch a game of soccer where commentators and analysts are purring over the number of passes leading to a goal. The point being in one sport the clever use of possession to engineer scoring opportunities instead of aimless hoofing is lauded while in another it’s muck for some reason.

    It maybe something in the Irish psyche though. Look at our national soccer team. Lauded when we were hit and hoof and anyone who dared to question was vilified. Or rilugby. The biggest cheer of the day is reserved for the kick to the corner which returns possession to the opposition 95% of the time - until the 50/22 came in at least. It’s only as Ireland started to move away from this strategy to a more nuanced approach that we started to get success



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,176 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Good post there..that would be a start.

    Also another big thing which has sprung up is bringing the ball into the tackle.

    Gaa need to emphasise more that the onus should be more on the ball carrier to get rid of the ball before the tackle.

    You see forwards tip tapping the ball a metre front the defender then try a burst of speed to get by.

    Usually results in a drag down and a free for the forward.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Absolute bollocks

    3 forwards who can’t track back will be marked out of the game but 5 or 6 defenders and you’ll end up with midfields jam packed and endless rucks or frees



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,101 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    So your perception is that teams retain possession at the expense of going for a score.

    So based on that you would expect less scoring in the modern game.

    So I did some analysis.

    I took all 40 provincial finals from the old days, 1980 to 1989 and compared them to the finals from 2010 to 2019 in both the average total score and the average number of scores.

    I took 2010 to 2019 because we were well into the era of possession football, blanket defenses, swarm defence, keepers taking frees, sweepers etc at that stage.

    So in the old days the average total score of a provincial final was 26.87 points, and the average number of scores was 22.9

    In the 2010 to 2019 the average socre was 33.2 points and the average number of scores was 29.1.

    So contrary to the belief that teams are holding possession at the expense of going for scores they are actually scoring more in my sample.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,444 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    He's right though. They're taking less shots now in football in favour of higher percentage scoring chances.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,176 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Correct, they tend not to take a shot unless they are almost assured of the score, that is a fact.

    Boring as hell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭tastyt


    Well in soccer there might only be one score in a game or none at all , it’s almost impossible to score from more than 30 yards out so it makes sense that you have to hold onto the ball and try to work a situation where you have a better chance to score .

    In football there are way more scores and scoring opportunities and you can kick a ball as high as you want over the crossbar from distance unlike soccer so it makes more sense to go for more scores and take more shots in comparison to soccer



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,101 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Yea, if one could compare the shots v wides/scores data that would be interesting.

    But the reality is games have more scores and people like scores.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,793 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Some teams just hit and hope. Meath had 13 scores and 13 wides against Limerick. Loads of wides in a game makes it so much more exciting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,003 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    I agree. It all boils down to the fear of losing. This has resulted in awful football, diving, cheating, sledging, and some very dirty tackles. In my opinion anyone who is caught sledging should be banned for 6 months, its just cheating, and shows a real nasty streak in someone and is not wanted in football.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,176 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Jaysus!!!!

    Thats the Dubs gone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,793 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Kildare had 12 scores and 10 wides against Louth. Monaghan had 3 scores, all place balls, and 8 wides in the second half, against Galway. Kildare, Monaghan and Meath all lost. But that is not the important thing. They provided old style entertainment by taking pot shots.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭crusd


    I refer you to the analysis of @Fr Tod Umptious which identified that as teams have become more discerning in their approach to scoring the number of scores per game has in fact increased. So there is clear evidence that it does not make more sense to hit and hope rather that work a higher percentage opportunity.




  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭Clare in Exile


    The game is going through a period of evolution. Where its hurling counterparts are constantly extoling the virtues of their game, Gaelic football is constantly on the receiving end of criticism and denigration.

    Those seeking a return to the man against man, kick and hope game can forget about it. Possession is the name of the game now, why on earth would a team loft in fifty/fifty balls just to make the game a more appealing spectacle?

    We have seen some wonderful games over the last few seasons, that should be highlighted more. Think of Mayo defeating Dublin in 2021, or Kerry catching the Dubs at the end in the semi-final last July. What about those fantastic contests between Dublin and Mayo in 2016 and 2017?

    Hurling for me has become almost like basketball, a constant flow of shots on goal which becomes monotonous. Far better in my view is a contest where scores are at a premium and are well earned.

    Football is evolving, it will be interesting to see where it ends up...



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,176 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar




  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    All facilitated by non stop ball throwing, It's not football anymore

    Same in hurling, its nearly at the stage now that the only time the sliotar touches a hurl is when someone goes for a score, if they could **** the sliotar over the bar they would



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    What a pointless stat.

    2010 - 2019 the dubs were winning Leinster by double digit scores, same with Kerry.

    + players are stronger

    fitter

    better pitches

    better balls

    better coaching and analysis

    of course scores were going to go up



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,444 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    Above comment is correct

    100% the point that very rarely gets mentioned here are the balls (in Football) and Sliotars

    Sliotars now are an absoulte joke. They're as light as feathers and have a serious bounces in them

    Footballs similar - so, so much lighter now



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,101 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Well of course it's a pointless stat.

    But isn't the whole discussion pointless ?

    The game has evolved.

    And the support has evolved.

    No one under 40 is pining for the hit and hope of The Kerry Golden Years.

    Because they never knew The Kerry Golden Years.

    But for all the negative talk the game* has gone from strength to strength.

    *I'm specifically talking about football, I don't care for hurling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,793 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005




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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,444 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    Those standards have changed a lot over the years



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,793 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    I would have liked to make that comparison, but I couldn't find the information online, although I didn't waste much time looking. What where the differences in the past, and when did they change most recently?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    I agree with ya, it is what it is at the moment.

    I’m sure in the future at some stage attacking football will come back.

    Juat takes a change in mindset from coaches & management.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,444 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    Rim thickness, weight are the big two

    It’s moreso O’Neills that push the changes rather than GAA. Allows them to ‘update’ them



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,101 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    But attacking football has no gone away, it's still there.

    Everyone's go to team for their rant about defensive football is Jimmy's Donegal.

    Well a decade or so ago I stuck on a stat in here that the 2012 Donegal scored more on average than the 2009 Kerry team.

    Again that can be described as a useless stat and I don't mind if it is, but where is this lack of attacking football if that stat even exists?

    There are more scores on games than there were 40 years ago, how does that explain the absence of attacking football?.

    People come to see scores, and they are seeing more of them than they ever did.

    Getting back to Jimmy's Donegal the poster child for defensive football was their 2011 SF v Dublin, which Dublin won 0-8 to 0-6.

    Everyone told us that was the end of football, and football was doomed, but the very next year Donegal where shooting the lights out and this time winning.

    Poor teams will be defensive v good teams because they don't want a whipping, and they can't be blamed for that.

    But if any team wants a chance at winning they have to be attacking.

    All the top teams of the last decade have been attacking teams.



  • Registered Users Posts: 542 ✭✭✭Treble double


    I would disagree about the footballs being lighter, I am in my mid forties and played club football until my mid thirties I'm still involved with teams on the sideline to the present day and the O'Neills size 5 football is the same since I can remember 40 years ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,444 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    The footballs definitely are lighter - it’s due to the material used. Similar change to soccer balls.

    The minute changes aren’t noticeable if playing the whole time



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,003 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    How many great football games were there in the championship last year? 2 or 3 at most id say.

    The funny thing about the blanket defence these days is a lot of the time is doesn't even work because the players are so poor at tackling and a lot of the attacking players can kick scores from distance. I don't get the posters who talk about kick and hope from the past, it wasn't, it was kicking it to a team mate, club footballers could do it never mind county footballers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 542 ✭✭✭Treble double


    We will have to agree to disagree on this one. When the balls are span new there is a slightly different feel to them, seem easier to catch and a nice pop off them from a kick, as they wear the handling disimproves naturally.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,444 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    There’s no agreeing to disagree on it!!! It’s literal!



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