Irish Traveller culture to be promoted through school curriculum: Posted on BBC website!

Calahonda52

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64803783

A spokesperson for the Department of Education in Ireland - which provided funding - said the report aimed to provide an important resource to support teachers, practitioners and students in understanding and appreciating Traveller culture and history.

Wonder what that will look like?

....

NCCA's research recommends the study of Cant, also known as Gammon or Shelta, an indigenous language used by Irish Travellers.

Considered a Creole language based on pidgin elements of Old Irish, but also incorporating English and other languages, it is a highly flexible dialect unique to certain communities.

...

"Our language is due its rightful place. It would be as easy as standing up in the Dáil [lower house of Irish parliament] and giving it state recognition… Leo Varadkar [Irish prime minister] could do that tomorrow," said Patrick Nevin.

So in time where will "settled" kids go to learn Shelta once its gets on the exam slate, same as Chinese in the LC?

threadbans

batman_oh

Jim_Hodge

So in time where will "settled" kids go to learn Shelta once its gets on the exam slate, same as Chinese in the LC?

The same place they go to learn Chinese, German, Arabic, Spanish, French....schools.

Thelonious Monk

Awesome. Love traveller culture.

Galwayguy35

We see enough of their culture over this end endangering motorists when they go sulky racing on the dual carraigeways.

freshpopcorn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315816#Comment_120315816

What parts?

Fritzbox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058286921/irish-traveller-culture-to-be-promoted-through-school-curriculum-posted-on-bbc-website

But does anyone in Ireland actually speak this Cant/Shelta language? Do any members of the Irish traveller community still speak it in every-day situations, and if so where can I find it on Youtube?

mikemac2

A shame the Traveller children will not be in school for this course due to them quitting early

Ten of Swords

@Hungry Burger threadbanned

Jarhead_Tendler

Lots of culture available on youtube

Strumms

So propaganda in other words.

Will they mention the CSO’s last set of figures that approximately 7.3 % of the prison population in Ireland are travellers ?

this is nuts considering travellers are only .7% of the population here.

homingbird

If it aint tied down they consider it theirs say it all speaking as someone that has been done over by them more than once that culture will not change so why should we.

Quitelife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316582#Comment_120316582

Its well known many travellers Refuse or Wont fill in the cencus form and like most other things they are left alone ....so their numbers are far greater than 0.7%.

Anyone in prison in Ireland has committed serious crimes , its quite difficult to get prison time in Ireland unless you commit serious serious crimes or are a repeat burgular-drug dealer etc etc

satguy

Their culture has enriched our island,, 200 years of peaceful coexistence.

And that town in Co. Limerick where that all live is such a nice place..

redlough

Funny thing to get wound up about but I suppose that is the World currently

I will just highlight the two important words in the article

But that could soon change after research this week presented a possible framework of how such history and culture could be introduced to education

could and possible which of course put a huge question mark over everything else in the article.

Honestly I am not sure why people are getting so upset about a puff piece on an English website. The picture of a child on a horse in Ballymun 25 years ago says it all 😂

Atlantic Dawn

It will really bring people on to their side through education which most people never hear about in the mainstream media every week.

They are amongst the most tidy people I know, I've yet to see a single piece of litter or waste around any of the official halting sites of the country, the homes within them are maintained by those living in them like palaces.

I hope it shows the traveller work ethic particularly in the tarmacadam and home maintenance industries within their local communities, never have I heard someone say a bad word about their workmanship or value for money.

I admire their particular love for other victimised groups in society like the LGBTQ folk among their community.

PropJoe10

I wonder will the way that they treat their animals be included in this curriculum.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316875#Comment_120316875

You must surely be joking. Halting site a few miles from here is reasonably tidy as you say............ but that's because they dump everywhere about in ditches, forests and streams! There are elderly about afraid of them - calling 'selling tools' and so on. Then every summer travellers from here and further afield gather at local beauty spot. Guess who has to tidy up the disgusting filth they leave behind?? I've met them lamping & hunting in the fields and forest at night, their dogs left to roam, fishing illegally and so on.

Respect has to be earned. I admire parts of traveller culture inc language and music but until they start having a bit of respect for the local environment, have little time overall for them.

Gen.Zhukov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120317009#Comment_120317009

There may have been a hint of Fr Jessup in AD's post

niallpatrick

Media studies section one: 'call outs' listen to what the traveller is saying.

Is it A: A greeting?

B: A threat to do harm or violence?

Or C: A meaningless incoherent stream of threats and empty promises?

Section 2 society and culture: Introducing yourself to a young lady.

Do you introduce yourself?

B: show off in front of your pals?

Or C: grab her by the breasts?

Jim_Hodge

What do they say about sarcasm being the lowest form of wit?

MegamanBoo

Judging by many of the comments here they didn't bring it in soon enough. That and a bit of anti racism.

On behalf of the decent, humane side of the settled community, I'd like to apologise to any travellers that come across this ignorant, small minded, hate filled sh1te.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316875#Comment_120316875

You should come up to one of the halting sites on the edge of Derry then.

They throw all their rubbish, Inc nappies etc, over the fence and then every month or two, the local council have to arrange to have the mess cleaned up.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120318039#Comment_120318039

The comments here would be the comments here regardless of how the curriculum is delivered. Negative stereotypes of all cultures abound regardless of where they’re from, there’s no need to take it upon yourself to apologise on anyone else’s behalf, to anyone.

The curriculum has, as the article suggests, been in the works for the last four years, without any real progress or significant implementation. It should be obvious that the curriculum wouldn’t be promoting negative stereotypes about travellers, that question just doesn’t arise, any more than I would expect schools to impart negative stereotypes about any other culture, demonstrating that schools are not where anyone learns about negative stereotypes, and they would still harbour negative stereotypes of other cultures regardless of whether they ever attended formal education or not.

A complete waste of time & resourses!

John_Rambo

I see a bit of traveller culture leaking in to the settled community. Monster weddings with lots of cash gifts are fairly common in some settled societies now.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120318297#Comment_120318297

Not if you’re a traveller though, which I guess is kinda the point of the exercise. In any case it doesn’t require much time or resources which is already taken into consideration in developing the curriculum.

Strumms

back in the day the school curriculum was devised with the absolute intention of bettering and educating young people, enabling them with tangible and important knowledge, know how and tools to take into adulthood..

rather then act as a propaganda tool for a certain demographic of individuals. 👍🏻🙄

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120318734#Comment_120318734

I dunno what period in time you’re referring to or where you were educated, but that was never the case in Ireland anyway where religion, civics and history were all used as propaganda tools by, and for, certain demographics of individuals.

The first part is true though, that the school curriculum was devised with the absolute intention of bettering and educating young people, enabling them with tangible and important knowledge, know how and tools to take into adulthood. That’s as true today as it was then, which is why the curriculum is revised every couple of years in an attempt to to reflect modern social standards and prepare children for adulthood.

Compared to the French education system for example which is more concerned with turning out little philosophers, the Irish education system is geared towards preparing children for Irish society. Educating children about travellers and their culture has been absent from the curriculum in all that time, which may go some way towards explaining why travellers didn’t see any importance in investing in an education system where they were either ignored, or made to feel like they didn’t belong in the school or classroom, and that’s before recognising the amount of shìt they have to put up with based upon negative stereotypes of travellers as a whole.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120318734#Comment_120318734

don't forget the catholic dogma

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120318103#Comment_120318103

talking about what you have observed is ignorant, small minded and hate filled.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319244#Comment_120319244

I don’t think anyone’s saying that. Talking about what you have observed is one thing; suggesting it’s a behaviour exhibited by all members of any particular group in society is another thing entirely.

It’s just as easy observe a person’s motives for that sort of behaviour too.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120318918#Comment_120318918

Not to worry, that’s being pushed out to be replaced by progressive dogma ( trans issues, consent , climate change, privilege)

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319244#Comment_120319244

Fugue, surprised at your post, would have expected more balanced approach.

Niman stated some facts, which are replicated across the country: I will post some from my local paper later

You have then added meaning to those facts: these facts are made up, by you.

They are made up, and have no basis in fact.

Example: someone dies: fact

relatives are all sad/happy/whatever: all made up: the only fact is the death.

Rather than make up stuff about Niman, can you list 10 positive facts where travellers have made a positive contribution to the society they give in.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316826#Comment_120316826

could and possible which of course put a huge question mark over everything else in the article

More meaning making.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319431#Comment_120319431

Climate change is progressive dogma?

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316523#Comment_120316523

Yes they do speak this language. It's very common and known among the community. There have been a few attempts to record traveller stories, songs and history as it's dying off by the forced settlement through government policy.

I'm terms of the negative aspects of the culture rather than preventing travellers from getting jobs and education how about encouraging and helping them as much as possible to get a better start in life. There are specific programs I am aware of to help with preschool and parallel education of mothers. Many travellers work on building sites as labourers and earn an honest wage for hard work. However nearly 100% are discriminated against and find it nearly impossible to even be considered for any role causing institutional and generational problems of unemployment. We really need to take a different approach, sticking travellers into council houses and abandoning them to the dole is not progressive.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120318918#Comment_120318918

I find it bizarre that anyone would think that the Irish education system didn't involve propaganda. Nearly every single part of my schooling revolved around the catholic church. Even the Irish language wasn't taught as a spoken language but rather as a cultural thing. There was more focus on poetry and Peig rather than actually speaking it.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319467#Comment_120319467

of course, that’s not to say conservatives can’t believe climate change is happening but climate change activism is a key tenet of progressive thought and extends to using climate change as a tool to push for open borders as one example

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319471#Comment_120319471

Progressive policy is what has us where we are with travellers

decades of endless carrot and telling them every single issue that bedevils their community is the fault of the broader population

Quitelife

Towns with large traveller populations all seem to have large amounts of crime & the general population are living in fear like Longford, Ennis, Tralee, Mullingar , Thurles , Tipp Town, Abbeyfeale, Castleisland , Tuam, & many many more.

Those who are pushing these courses you will find are not living in these areas .

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319609#Comment_120319609

‘seem to’ being the operative words in your post there.

Dublin city and suburbs had the largest number of Irish Travellers with 5,089 persons. This was followed by Galway city and suburbs with 1,598 persons and Cork city and suburbs with 1,222.

Of the towns with 1,500 or more persons, Tuam had the highest number of Irish Travellers with 737 persons, followed by Longford with 730 persons.

Navan, Mullingar, Dundalk and Ballinasloe all had 500 or more Irish Travellers in 2016. 

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8itd/

’Living in fear’? They’re not living in the middle of Iraq for goodness sake, they’re no more living in fear than anyone in Dublin City is living in fear. It’s also where there are plenty of organisations which support travellers are located, and there’s no courses being pushed. They’re proposals for a curriculum to be taught in schools at national level, so schools in those areas you mentioned would be delivering the same curriculum content as would be delivered in every school in Ireland.

archermoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319467#Comment_120319467

The people that want to pretend it isn't happening like to characterise it as such. Much like creationists like to pretend that evolution is progressive dogma.

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319804#Comment_120319804

Much like the people who want to pretend that the traveller culture of today should be celebrated and ignore the overwhelming negatives for people that actually have to live surrounded by it (and for the travellers themselves ironically). Preaching at people from areas disconnected from the reality of it to make themselves feel righteous.

apache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316582#Comment_120316582

That's a fact. Sure they even have their own wings.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319609#Comment_120319609

I grew up in a county where they had a massive presence, especially around the town. I knew literally all of the families, closer than I'd have liked to, and I'd honestly struggle to say anything good about any of them. In fact, I could easily link all of those families to numerous crimes by court reporting alone. The first time I was lectured about them was in college in Dublin by a middle class lecturer from Cork, who likely had no close dealings with them, yet was still happy to bleat on about how oppressed they were and how it was all our fault. It's something that's very hard to swallow for those of us who've seen the other side and experienced it up close. We're meant to accept that they are helpless victims, when all we've ever seen is them victimize others. It's completely out of sync with the reality that most of us know.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319462#Comment_120319462

I was being ironic. 😊

Poking fun at one of the usual self righteous, aggressive comments about how observing actual behaviour is apparently hatred. And ignorance seemingly (when it's the exact opposite of ignorance).

There are huge problems in traveller society - and it's horrible for women and girls. Yes of course not all travellers are responsible, but saying that, doesn't magically wipe out the overwhelming issues that are there.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319962#Comment_120319962

Travellers have long been a trendy cause for middle class leftists , that the vast majority of middle Ireland have no time for travellers makes the cause even trendier

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319471#Comment_120319471

Two-way street. Aspects of traveller culture need to change. Like taking kids out of school extremely early, and insanely young marriage and parenthood (with too many children).

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320071#Comment_120320071

The apologising they do is almost funny. If they went to your average traveller family and started saying that stuff, they'd wouldn't be received well at all. The travellers would likely look on in disgust, because at the end of the day, no matter what you think of them, they are proud people who say sorry for nothing. And certainly wouldn't have any respect for people who'd sit and grovel and beg for acceptance.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320071#Comment_120320071

No they haven’t? It’s only in recent years they’ve gained any sort of attention from middle-class lefties who want to impose their own ideas on travellers, who for the most part want nothing to do with them.

It’s true that the vast majority of middle-class Ireland wants nothing to do with travellers, only for the drugs really, and the boxing, and the GAA, and and let’s not forget it was Micheál Martin who nominated Eileen Flynn to the Seanad -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eileen_Flynn_(politician)

And Enda Kenny’s FG Government who recognised travellers as a distinct ethnic group in 2017 -

https://www.gov.ie/en/speech/d29014-statement-by-an-taoiseach-enda-kenny-td-on-the-recognition-of-travel/

And travellers have long had a sort of a Stockholm syndrome relationship with the Catholic Church which you’d struggle to associate with middle-class lefties! 😂

Nah, that’s just your own associate anything you don’t like with lefties, doesn’t matter that it isn’t reflected by reality at all.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320179#Comment_120320179

Saying what stuff? They’re in no doubt whatsoever that middle-class Ireland wants nothing to do with them. They’re not a proud people who say sorry for nothing either, there’s a few of ‘em just don’t give a fcuk, that’s not the same as being sorry for nothing, and it’s certainly not motivated by pride, it’s motivated by their own prejudices towards people who aren’t travellers.

This thread though is about a curriculum in Irish schools, where it’s not that parents withdraw their children early from school, it’s just as difficult to be a traveller child in school in the first place, and that’s if they can get in at all. There are numerous cases of traveller parents experiencing difficulties in enrolling their children in local schools -

https://www.thejournal.ie/boy-refused-place-at-dublin-school-2964383-Sep2016/