The end of Road racing on the Island and possibly all motorbike sports

Del2005

The Ulster Centre has cancelled all road racing, short circuit racing and trials for this year due to the cost of insurance. The Southern Centre can't get insurance. I can't see road racing coming back after this.

I can see the risks associated with racing but trials is a strange one, it's slow speed and off road. Are motocross, enduro ran by a different organisation?

How soon till all motor sports on the Island are gone?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-64591498

https://twitter.com/IrishSbkRacing/status/1623403391555629058

LIGHTNING

Its a lovely mixture of greed and comp culture, some of the stories I have heard working at a race track. If the government stepped in and did something maybe things would change but alas...

Sir Galahad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222703#Comment_120222703

What could the government do ?

lennymc

Very sad that this has happened.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222853#Comment_120222853

Consequences for fraudulent or exaggerated claims, the only option now is perjury and that's nearly impossible to prove.

enricoh

Couldn't understand why they didn't charge an entrance fee for punters up north. E30 with a program a head down here was a bit high for a lot of locals that'd pop down for a few hours.

RTE were shameful in their total disregard for the sport, it would have brought more sponsors onboard etc. Possibly the most exciting sport in the world on their doorstep n ignored.

LIGHTNING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222853#Comment_120222853

Well when the insurance companies were called out and admitted that the claim numbers were inflated they basically did nothing.

Varik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222703#Comment_120222703

Maybe I'm wrong but going to take it you meant greed from the insurers as comp culture implies it from the public.

Really hard to argue greed from insurers when they keep leaving the market, and few entering it.

elperello

I did a bit of rally marshalling back in the day and found most people to be sensible and cooperative.

It's a shame to face the loss of such a heritage.

Sports need to stand together or be picked off one by one.

LIGHTNING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120223540#Comment_120223540

Well they keep saying they are leaving cos they ain't making money but the figures published would disagree with that

Varik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120223570#Comment_120223570

If they were threatening to leave that could be true but they actually are leaving.

Current profits don't counter the liabilities they've got and how quickly they could be caught out.

ZX7R

No easy solution to this,

Surprised short circuit is also included.

If they ate going to try charging spectators that would end up in tears, I remembered years ago one of the southern road races tried and it ended up a disaster. Land owners wanted a cut ect

One of the biggest costs is attracting big names to race or use to be.

Hopefully some big sponsor's come together dig out the sport.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120223570#Comment_120223570

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120223610#Comment_120223610

Rise in legal costs means that even fighting a claim and winning still sets companies back more than simply settling out of court. So their strategy is simply to pay out in most cases and not contest, and then load premiums of everyone else.

A few years back some of mountain bike parks in South had to close because of cost of insurance too - depressing to see that things have only gotten worse since and now bike events are next to fall.

Unfortunately govt north and south dont seem to care unless it were a football or GAA match cancelled from insurance costs.

Breezin

Football? Really? Gets about the same treatment as motorcycle racing.

Breezin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222853#Comment_120222853

Subsidise the sport, like GAA, the gee-gees, and the bloody dogs.

robbie_63

Is there a risk to regular track days in mondello too?

gipi

Track days are ok, but the Dunlop Masters is gone, because it falls under the aegis of the MCI.

BagofWeed

Welcome to Ireland.. All fun stuff is illegal or heavily regulated enough as to be almost illegal. I'm no biker but I think it's a great and exciting hobby/sport and this is a kick in the teeth to motorsport fans and participants. Its a literal kill joy land now and the powers that be have no interest in doing anything about insurance costs.

mickdw

It's the compo bullshit that is ruining everything. That's said, road race organisers and whatever governing body is involved have alot to answer for in the way they go about safety barriers at corners etc. I know it's road racing and there will be deaths but certainly looking at the isle of man circuit last year, I only had to go a corner or 2 to find what I would call complete negligence in terms of rider safety. Riders getting killed will surely have a part to play in spooking Insurance companies who would reasonably assume that a bike ploughing into spectators is a strong possibility also.

I don't get how this should effect circuit racing at all though.

HerrKapitan

I wonder how much investment the insurance companies are getting from WEF and Co to discard insuring motor sport.

We can't have these fossil fuel gussling sports inspiring people during the push to electric.

It shows the lack of faith in electric cars that instead of racing electric, they are underhandedly compromising the sport.

robbie_63

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120228124#Comment_120228124

Wonder does that put mondello under pressure loosing whatever income they would get from running the masters

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120228466#Comment_120228466

Been going this way for years. Trying to stop kids kicking a ball about in school play grounds absolutely boggles my mind. We’ve gone badly wrong somewhere along the line.

LIGHTNING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120228607#Comment_120228607

Its a mixture of good old fashioned greed and the suing culture from the US coming over here. Easy way to make a buck as they say. I've seen a case where somebody said that a car failed hence why he crashed. Turned out at the time of the "event" he had both hands off the wheel waving at this GF who was at the fence.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120228124#Comment_120228124

Till Mondello can't get insurance or it quadruples

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120223568#Comment_120223568

This is it exactly, as alluded to above, we've had a few extreme sports centres, mountain bike parks etc had to shut up shop in recent years, all for the same reason. No individual sport can make a strong enough case for people to notice so some over-arching intervention is really required.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120228572#Comment_120228572

Mondello always seems to be only limping along. You would wonder if it could be managed better.

I know for one season there they decided to take the trackdays on themselves and not give days to trackdays.ie as it looked like a money spinner but then they didn't push the events at all and ended up with poorly attended days.

This reduction in bike activities won't help bottom line for sure.

Del2005

The North has set up a GoFundMe page for the 2023 season, but the problem will be the same next year and the following year. The South has €7m in outstanding claims and can't get a quote.

It's not just road racing that is over, bike racing is dead on the Island without government intervention and that's not likely.

gipi

If Stormont were operating, I could see funding provided for the big NI events (NW200, UGP) via the Department of Tourism, because of the income generated by those events.

Unlikely to happen down south though.

rustynutz

You can blame the insurance companies for gouging customers, but I think most of the blame lies with the legal profession in this country, they are the ones really benefiting from this compo culture at the expense of everyone else. Its a big merry go round of greed, encouraging people to claim for the most minor injuries for the past few decades and extracting massive profits from it, the judges who all all ex lawyers are up to their eyes in it too.

It's a shame, because it's us, the ordinary punters who suffer, any bit of joy is sucked out of everything we do for fear of litigation

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120233425#Comment_120233425

100 percent agree with that.

GBX

Road racing is such a great sport but because it's done on public roads and uses local lands, it has many pitfalls. To have every local landowner/farmer on board, would be great. Some love the racing and the craic it brings while others hate it. Their land is trampled over, pissed on, rubbish strewn around. I can understand why some would want their cut of fees. If somebody falls arse over tit going from one vantage spot to the next, who's responsible? The racing club or land owner ? This is where the dilemmas start to creep in . As others have said the compo culture we have has made things so expensive for them to run the race weekends.

I've no problem paying for a program/entry fee but you get people complaining over the price yet will pay €50 to see football or rugby for 2 hours when you get a full days entertainment for €20. If the events can be run it will be a viscous circle as they may try and recoup some of this cost by increasing the entry but folks won't want to pay. Even if they are all about saving the sport.

jeremyr62

Ireland need one decent circuit built to modern safety standards. Other countries seem to manage it OK. I would think road racing has had its day for a load of reasons and not just in Ireland.

LIGHTNING

You wont get the general public to pay an entry fee. You couldn't even get people to go the Phoenix Park races and it was free and in the capital city! You will get the folks who are interested to pay but thats not enough to sustain it.

Padre_Pio

The cross country running events are drying up too, even with massive popularity. Tickets this year are twice what they were as little as five years ago. All blamed on insurance.

elperello

www.sportireland.ie/news/irelands-sports-organisations-call-for-urgent-reform-of-the-insurance-sector

This link is from 2019.

They were on the right track then

I can't see anything up to date

getoutadodge

Deduct the MI insurance costs from the Greyhound industry. Two for one. Road racing is unique to Ireland. Even the famous TT in the Isle of MAN is a time trial as opposed to a bona fide race. The duds in RTE never had the wit to see a winning event which they could sell around the world.

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/lifestyle/why-is-greyhound-racing-given-so-much-funding-39815542.html

"Conditions very iffyy....but they're going anyway". 24 million views!

https://youtu.be/LU-ynRoqDEs

Pythagorean

It's not just road racing, etc, I am in a vintage motorcycle club, we have several runs during the year. Our club is under the aegis of the MCUI, so our runs come under their insurance, so our vintage runs are under threat, unless this insurance issue is resolved. Regarding Mondello, they run car races as well, so how do they fare for insurance there ? I wonder if Carole Nash could find an insurance company willing to quote for bike racing ?

LIGHTNING

Insurance costs for Mondello are insane, I remember hearing them and nearly fell off my seat and that was a few years ago. I can't even imagine what it is now. It's a complete piss take that its ruining pretty much anything that involves the general public.

Pythagorean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240593#Comment_120240593

And the ironic thing is that Mondello is nearly 100% safe for spectators, due to a massive fence surrounding the entire circuit. I wonder if the "Compo culture" is to blame for this insurance fiasco.?

Breezin

[quote]  If somebody falls arse over tit going from one vantage spot to the next, who's responsible? The racing club or land owner ? [/quote]

If I may be so bold as to venture, m'lud, it is neither. Rather, they having embarked on this perilous quest, it surely is the arse-over-titter him or herself who should be held accountable.

Bluefoam

The insurance companies have created this situation. They have built the environment where people are paid large compensation, it benefited them as they could use the payout statistics to demand higher premiums. They would pay out on the steps of the court rather than rely on a judgement... The government have been complicit by their inaction.

Now it's out of control and the insurance companies will continue to benefit. The country is missing out, creches, play centres, outdoor adventure and now racing are all suffering.

There needs to be a strong position from government over this, otherwise it's not just racing that will suffer, everything in society will suffer.

BTW, discussion on the radio this morning was that motor and life insurance are going to increase...

galwaytt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120242595#Comment_120242595

'twas ever thus:

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1988-02-24/33/?highlight%5B0%5D=bill&highlight%5B1%5D=1986&highlight%5B2%5D=injury

Tech_Head

There’s an official GoFundMe for anyone that’s interested in supporting.

Goal is £300k and currently at just over £75k. (Am not affiliated with the group)

mcuiucinsurance-shortfall-for-racing-in-2023

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120238330#Comment_120238330

Would you go away. Just because you like it then it must be some mega sport that RTE are idiots not to show.

There are 100 different sports all queueing up thinking they are the one should get all the funding and coverage.

I'm a big cycling fan which is easily as big as your sport so do we get wall to wall coverage and money too. And how about Irish athletics or swimming, martial arts, handball etc.

getoutadodge

With all due respect to the sports you cited, these are more participatory than spectacles. That why 70 K show up for Skerries and a 100K show for the North West. Its a numbers game for TV.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248408#Comment_120248408

What happens if they don't make the £300k target?

Tech_Head

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120249626#Comment_120249626

Just to be clear, am not affiliated with them. Just checked the FAQ and they get to keep every donation unless the person who donated pulls it - https://www.gofundme.com/c/questions

So it’s not like kickstarter where the money is only taken if it reaches it’s goal.

MCUI would be the best people to contact to ask what will they do if they don’t reach their goal.

jay48

It's not just road racing that can't get insurance. Up North its road racing and short circuits , here it's roads , circuits , motocross, trials , basically anything that falls under the MCI umbrella.

They've got a quote in the North , that's why they have set up the fundraiser , they need to raise 300k . They have said the money will be refunded if they can't raise enough to get insurance.

If the road racing isn't your thing ,fair enough, I'm no fan of the roads myself but it'll be the end of seeing Irish riders in BSB , MOTO GP , WSBK etc in the future as basically there will be in bike racing in Ireland, no racing no opportunity for young riders to make it through the ranks .

There's a meeting next week between the MCI and the clubs to discuss the situation, up to this week they can't even get a quote for insurance so it's not looking good .

I've given a few quid to the fundraiser because if there's no racing down here atleast the lads have an opportunity to go racing up North and the sport doesn't die.

Breezin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120238330#Comment_120238330

I didn't know that about the IoM. Does that mean that Ireland literally is the only place where actual old racing happens... or did?

GBX

The race in Czech Republic and Finland as well.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257000#Comment_120257000

Estonia also has road racing. There is a International Road Racing Championship.

https://www.irrc.eu/

The big teams might be able to race the IRRC and some might go BSB. But the lads who race for the fun won't be able to afford travelling to the UK or Europe so any races that do go ahead will have tiny grids.

Even the IoM TT could be in trouble. There were 53 bikes in last years Superbike race. If they only have 10 or 20 entries in a few years will many people attend when they have to wait 15 minutes to see the another bike?