Building self-contained accommodation in your back garden

Bex0

We are considering building a studio/modular home/cabin/loghouse (TBD) for a family member in need. They are about to become homeless and we have a large garden and a little bit of savings. We live in a residential estate in Co Kildare in a semi-detached home. Can someone give advice first of all if this is realistic? How can we get planning permission and what we should know about planning permission for self-contained accommodation in your back garden? Any advice on where to start or what we should know? With the current housing crisis options are very limited and we think this is the best way some people can help family and friends. TIA

muffler

Generally speaking these type of developments are frowned upon. However have a look online at the local council's development plan and check the housing policies they have. You could also look for a pre-planning meeting with the planners or discuss this with your local councillor. Have you considered a granny flat type extension to the existing house? that would be a lot easier to get PP for.

endacl

Won't work. I know there'll be a shedload of 'shur it'll be grands' along any minute now, but the single point of failure that overrides all others is fire brigade access. Emergency services need to be able to identify a dwelling as 'an address'. Not 'the back garden of an address', and need to be able to effectively attend this address in case of emergency.

If you do it, you may get away with it, but its a lot of cash to throw at a project and be ordered to return your garden to it's previous state, even a few years down the line. It only takes one neighbour to make a complaint to draw attention from the planning office. In fact, it only takes one neighbour mentioning it to a mate who isn't affected by it in the slightest. They can also notify.

Will you get planning? Almost certainly not. Will there be a risk of enforcement action by the local authority? Absolutely.

But if it were me, I'd take the risk. I'd try and keep the studio at 25 square metres, maximise the specs and cut costs to the bone, with an eye to fire safety.

But right now, the housing situation is so awful (with no sign of real improvement for another decade) in some parts of the country finding a house to rent is like winning the lotto- there is currently a single house for rent in my town, population 10,000....

Also, local authorities are slow as hell with enforcement.

10 years ago I'd be disgusted by someone building a garden room as living space. Now it's basically performing a public service.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120290528#Comment_120290528

It’s not that the LA’s are slow with enforcement, it’s that they have to follow procedure to a T, or any future possible court case will be worthless.

They have to send the letter.

They have to allow 4 weeks for a response.

They have to then visit site.

They then have to allow reasonable measures by the applicant, for example lodge a retention. Even if it’s obvious it will be refused, they legally have to allow the process to occur. That adds 3 months straight away.

Then the applicant can appeal to ABP. This will be 12+ months. All the while planning enforcement have to sit back and allow the process to develop.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292416#Comment_120292416

So if I'm reading that right, you're talking a year and a half at top speed? Assuming they get wind of the unauthorised development immediately? And I'm guessing going to court for an enforcement order is another 6 months or more, so probably 2 years minimum to the LA actually doing something which MIGHT be effective. Sounds slow as hell to me.

And during that 2 year (plus) period the OP's relative is not homeless. And probably saving enough money in rent to pay for the cost of building the accommodation.

Sounds like a win for the OP & their relative to me. And no I'm not encouraging the OP to break the law, I'm pointing out the likely potential benefit of playing within the rules in a very particular way: someone is protected from homelessness for a couple of years.

Let's not lose sight of the actual problem here: lack of action by all levels of government for a decade and a half has resulted in record levels of officially homeless people, god knows how many hidden homeless, and so many people are at risk of homelessness through no fault of their own. The problem is NOT people providing accommodation via unauthorised developments.

monseiur

If concerned about planning etc. get planning for shed / garage designed to required size etc. Ensure that position of windows, door etc suit later layout. Build floors, walls etc to house spec re. insulation, plumbing etc. Connect sewer system to existing house pipes. Build internal partitions with stud walls to give a bedroom, kitchen/diner/lounge & bathroom. In the unlikely event that planning dept. come after you in the future you won't have to demolish the building just revert to using it as garage/shed as original planning permission.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293252#Comment_120293252

That's kind of where I'm going with the 25 square metres. Exempted (with certain limits and in certain conditions) for non-domestic construction, so the only unauthorised part would be the OP's relative living in it. After 7 years, no enforcement possible, so it can be lived in forever.

The issue with getting planning for the shed/garage (as came up on another thread) the 7 year limit for enforcement doesn't apply where the unauthorised part is in breach of a condition attached to a grant of permission, and there'd almost certainly be a condition about using it for domestic purposes. So the LA could still come along 20 years later and issue enforcement proceedings about the domestic use part.

If you get planning, you have the certainty of a larger structure. If you don't get planning you have the possibility of indefinite domestic use. Which of these benefits is more attractive depends on individual preferences and situations.

In the OP's situation (because there seems to be urgency), I'd be knocking up the 25 square metre studio apartment asap and expecting that they'd be there for the foreseeable in current conditions: the housing situation is getting slowly worse rather than better, with no indication of change.

If I was providing semi-independent accommodation for a child/relative while they saved a deposit for a place of their own, I'd be going much bigger if I could.

monseiur

25 sq. metres is a bit on the small side but seeing that it's for a family member it could work. There's also the option of adding an extra square metere or two at last minute when floor slab is being poured 😉 A toilet & basin would do, he/she could use house for showers, washing machine / dryers etc. and if ''studio'' is placed close to house or boiler a few rads could be hooked up. Also if funds are tight the likes of Done Deal can be your friend for, good as new, furniture, cookers, fitted kitchen units, PVC windows, doors, toilets, basins etc. for a fraction of new price.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120294249#Comment_120294249

Hard to see these type arrangements working out long term

Sharing showers etc and there's so many limitations to living in what's basically a shed

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120294275#Comment_120294275

What is basically a shed to you is a palace to someone on the verge of homelessness. Of course there are certain limitations but with a little imagination a shed could be turned into a snug living accommodation. You could have a bedroom, toilet, basin and perhaps a shower and the rest an open plan area as kitchen/living area. Good insulation + quality windows & doors is vital and of course a good heating system.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120294376#Comment_120294376

+1

I wouldn't exactly be leaping for joy at the prospect of moving into 25 square metres myself.

But if the alternative is homelessness, 25 square metres suddenly looks a lot bigger. Many studios in Dublin are smaller than that and I've lived in smaller places in Ranelagh that'd cost you €1k+ (and probably a lot of "+" these days) a month if you were lucky enough to even get one (And yeah: "lucky" is definitely relative here).

screamer

You should look up the regulations because you can build a “shed”. What you use it for is up to you. Yes neighbours can complain but being honest in the countryside plenty of mobile homes being pulled in that are also not allowed but people are desperate and have no choice.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293115#Comment_120293115

A 5x5 done cheap is going to be around €50k and that's if you can find someone to do the job. Builders, chippies, sparks and plumbers are in short supply so they can pick the jobs with most profit. Done right and you can double it. The planning process may be slow but revenue isn't so the OP will get hit for tax on the rent or if not charging rent then the relative will have a tax liability.

The lack of housing won't be fixed in 2 years, it'll be a lot longer regardless of who is in power as we don't have the builders.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120294539#Comment_120294539

Revenue will have to know about it first, and the OP should be paying tax if they're liable. Ditto the relative, but there's CAT thresholds and/or the annual small gifts allowance which could make tax for the relative a non-issue for quite some time. There are other exemptions (depending on the relationship) which would make the relative's potential tax liability entirely disappear even if Revenue do come calling.

€4k per square metre for a job done right only applies if the OP is having the sh1t absolutely gouged out of them. €2k per square metre is also fairly extortionate for a garden room: there's similar available for much less than that. And if the OP (and/or their family/network) is willing & able to do the job themselves, you can slice the cost from €4k per square metre to something much closer to €400.

And no, there's no hope of the lack of housing being fixed in 2 years. But 2 years of accommodation is still better than 2 years of homelessness.

AnRothar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120294484#Comment_120294484

Till county council are getting complaints and are taking action.

BlackEdelweiss

We are in a similar situation. My elderly mother lives alone in the UK and wants to come home to be near her family. She can't even find a place to rent.

We have a block shed at the bottom of our garden. I thought we could tumble it and put in a 25sqm structure. 2 rooms and a shower/wc.

Could be used by her for a few months of the year when not staying with other family. After a few years it would just return to use as a home office/utility room with occasional sleeping use if the kids came to visit all at the same time.

Would I need to go through planning for this?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121059602#Comment_121059602

Yes. Planning required. Most likely won’t be granted for habitable use.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120294249#Comment_120294249

no there isnt the option of adding extra space. if you go over the 25m2 then it is not in line with the exemption and would require planning permission.

coolbeans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121059602#Comment_121059602

You'll likely get planning for a granny or family flat as some LAs call it. Generally, you have to maintain some sort of ancillary relationship with the host dwelling and provide evidence of a relative in need of care or with dependent needs. Most if not all counties have policies on this. Above all though they don't want to go create an entirely independent living unit that could be rented out to third parties following the dependent relative's death.

Look up the relevant County Development Plan, go to Development Management Standards and search for family flat or granny flat policies.

To the OP, you can't build an independent living unit in your back garden. Go ahead with it if you like but it'll be a headache for years and you'll never get away with in Kildare where accommodation is at a premium and neighbours love to report one another. You could try the family flat route outlined above but that is a different thing to an independent flat in rear garden.