Six Nations 2023 - Ireland v France Build-Up Thread, Sat 11th Feb KO 2:15PM - TV: RTÉ2, ITV, France2

Jump_In_Jack

Ireland v France, in the Aviva in Dublin.

Ireland will take on France in round two in what is being commonly regarded as this year’s title decider.

Ireland, the number 1 team in the World coming into this tournament haven’t beaten the number 2 team, France, in the Six Nations Championship since winning at home in the Aviva 26-14 in 2019.

Ireland are coming into this match after an away bonus point win in Cardiff, while France also won with a bonus point in Rome.

(The team will be announced on Thursday so a match thread could begin Wed afternoon.)

Furlong, Gibson-Park and Healy ruled out of French match. Blade and Milne called up. Kelleher back in training, Salanoa and Stewart remain with the squad.

Ireland squad (41 players)

Backs (18): Bundee Aki, Caolin Blade, Ross Byrne, Craig Casey, Jack Crowley, Keith Earls, Jamison-Gibson Park, Mack Hansen, Hugo Keenan, Jordan Larmour, James Lowe, Stuart McCloskey, Conor Murray, Jimmy O'Brien, Jamie Osborne, Garry Ringrose, Johnny Sexton (capt), Jacob Stockdale.

Forwards (23): Ryan Baird, Finlay Bealham, Tadhg Beirne, Jack Conan, Gavin Coombes, Caelan Doris, Tadhg Furlong, Cian Healy, Iain Henderson, Rob Herring, Rónan Kelleher, Dave Kilcoyne, Joe McCarthy, Michael Milne, Peter O’Mahony, Tom O’Toole, Andrew Porter, Cian Prendergast, James Ryan, Roman Salanoa, Dan Sheehan, Tom Stewart, Josh van der Flier.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/six-nations/2023/0206/1354062-furlong-healy-and-gibson-park-ruled-out-of-france-game/

sydthebeat

Bookies were way out last weekend by only going with Ireland -7 prior to kick off.

As of now Ireland are -4, and I think that's a few points too short for us.

France are most dangerous when they are given cheap turnover ball (poor kicks, passes not going to hand etc). In phase play they require continuous bashing in order for cracks to appear out wide for the likes of Ficou or Ntamack to exploit. Irelands defense is generally very well disciplined, and will certainly need to be.

This France do seem to have difficult travelling as well.

Ireland can create tries easier in my opinion. We've more to our forward pod play and more ability to manipulate opposition defenses.

At the moment before teams named I think we can do this by about 10 points.

Quin_Dub

The game yesterday makes for some interesting planning for the weekend.

France cannot and will not be as poor again. Their discipline was awful (18 penalties) and they just looked out of sorts.

They never really took control of the game and gave Italy a lot of possession to use.

Italy looked comfortable on Primary possession - Their scrum was stable and the lineout was solid enough, they also got decent return from their driving maul. Italy were let down by some poor handling and decision making at times

If France give Ireland anything like that amount of possession and territory they are in for a very tough day.

Equally , Ireland had a poor third quarter against Wales but always seemed like they had another gear to move up to if really needed.

France were genuinely hanging on a bit at the end..A better kick to the corner from Allan and Italy could have really pressured them right at the end.

The Italian game might actually give France a bit of a wake up and create a reaction for the Ireland game but I still see Ireland as slight favourites.

I'd split the difference between Syd above and the bookies and say Ireland by 6/7 points.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207454#Comment_120207454

At the moment before teams named I think we can do this by about 10 points.

If this happens, the hype trains becomes a hype space rocket.

sydthebeat

It's in Dublin and I don't think this France team this year is better than the team that beat ireland by 6 points in Paris last year

Jump_In_Jack

I have my suspicions that France went out against Italy with no game plan, intentionally, so as to hide their tactics against Ireland, and I would imagine the coaches just said to the players to get the win and ensure the bonus point, and then we’ll start looking at the match against Ireland.

To be fair to Italy, they do look a lot better this last year or so. I wonder if we will struggle to get the bonus point against them, but we really shouldn’t if we play like we can.

Musicrules

We were hot favourites against Wales and I think warm favourites to beat France. I predicted a 25 point win against Wales. Score prediction for this one to come later in the week but I think we have it in the bag.

stephen_n

There is a possibility that the reason France were off yesterday was because they had one eye on Dublin. Though maybe the best way to prepare is to play well. This is probably the championship/grand slam decider in a World Cup year. It’s an important marker for both teams.

Think this will be more of an arm wrestle like the SA game. Very defensive from both sides. One score game either way.

(hope for my nerves and hearts sake, Syd is right though.)

Jump_In_Jack

So far, injury list seems to be Robbie Henshaw (Wrist), Ciarán Frawley (Knee), Ed Byrne (Knee), Andrew Conway (Knee), Jeremy Loughman (Thigh), Robert Baloucoune (recurring hamstring injury), Marty Moore (anterior cruciate, out for season), Dave Heffernan (Knee), Rónan Kelleher (Hamstring, being monitored by Irish medical team, back in training already), Tadhg Furlong (Calf, ruled out of French match), Jamison Gibson-Park (Hamstring, ruled out of French match), Cian Healy (Hamstring, ruled out of French match), Johnny Sexton (Dead leg and HIA, should be ok for the French match).

I suspect Beirne might have a sore knee or hamstring from Ken Owens chop tackle on him where he was down for a while getting treatment. He didn’t look right after it and came off early enough.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/six-nations/2023/0206/1354062-furlong-healy-and-gibson-park-ruled-out-of-france-game/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207581#Comment_120207581

I'm still waiting to see the special moves that Joe Schmidt was holding back before the 2019 world cup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207597#Comment_120207597

Sexton should be fine https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/feb/06/rugby-union-andy-farrell-guarantees-johnny-sexton-will-be-fit-and-ready-for-trip-to-paris

lawrencesummers

France will know that not getting a BP in Italy means they have to get a result in Dublin to keep it in their own hands.

A loss and they have to hope that England in dublin or Scotland / italy away can turn us over and they are unlikely tbh.

A lot of pressure on the french this week, they cant be happy with the performance in Rome.

If we start in Dublin like we did in Cardiff the french heads away from home will drop. The first 20 minutes could really decide this fixture. If we get a lead they will have to go chasing the game.

That said i think the draw could be a good gamble.

pickarooney

They did get a bonus point in Italy. All three away teams got one.

Madeoface

If Italy had an international level 9 France would have been in trouble. They looked gassed by 55 mins.

Hard to know if they were too cocky yesterday but they won't be that bad next week. However, Ireland at home, 8 point win if no silly cards conceded...

kuang1

For me, a major reason for Ireland being favourites for this one is France's 6 day turn around versus our 7.

I've always thought that the team who plays Italy first every year is at a disadvantage, as Italy always seem to turn up for the first game year in year out.

And as an aside, imo home advantage is diluted a little for the 2.15 kick off matches as the crowd hasn't been lubed up as much as they would be for the later kick off times.

OldRio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207642#Comment_120207642

'Trip to Paris'?

Good God I hope he's not.

Clegg

Furlong, JGP and Healy are all unavailable for the France game.

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1622596518573223943?t=nVy-DhX8qChkOC9Y4GJB8g&s=09

naughtyboy

Furlong and Park are too big a loss for Ireland to win , its bad enough henshaw is not available who is a major loss

Aki will have to start and maybe we should move beirne to 6 and Henderson starts , France will know Murray is not as fast as Park and they will target to smash him and Sexton accordingly.

We need to play a fast game and so casey must start, Sexton and Ireland need a 9 like Gibson Park when playing the top top nations.

Madeoface

I've been impressed with the little I've seen of G.Coombes lately and thought a place on the bench instead of Conan could be in order. Not that Jack has done anything wrong and he's a player I like. Coombes seems to have stepped up since being dropped though.

There's a fair bit of Munster generated hype around him so let's see if he can sideline a Lion. I thought he'd more physical heft than Jack but same weight according to their bio's. Conan seems more agile but I'd need to see more of Coombes.

Nice problem for AF.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120208935#Comment_120208935

Nice problem alright but gc is not there yet in my opinion (not that I know anything).

Dropping conan? That's nuts.

The battle pre world cup is between Coombes and Baird.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120208962#Comment_120208962

Why would it be nuts? I don’t think it’s clear Conan is that much better than the alternatives. He’s already been dropped (out of the 15) and at times has been in and out of the 15 for Leinster this season too.

I don’t think it’s as crazy a decision as you’re making out tbh.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120208935#Comment_120208935

There's a fair bit of Munster generated hype around him so let's see if he can sideline a Lion.

Not quite sidelined, but he’s already replace a Lion in Stander at Munster. The biggest compliment you can give Coombes is that Munster haven’t really missed CV since he left.

StevenToast

Ireland to win and beat the handicap also.

letowski

Who is the ref for the game? Hopefully the break down is reffed strict as France have some good jackelers in their team that will look to make a mess of our ball. Though Wales tried to do that on Saturday and Ireland did well at the breakdown.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209040#Comment_120209040

Doris! Simple as that.

Coombes is great and all. But is no where near conan at 8.

crossman47

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120208318#Comment_120208318

No. We have to start Murray. Saturday showed Casey is not yet at his level across all aspects of the game, including kicking and defending.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209075#Comment_120209075

Doris is our starting 8. Nobodies arguing otherwise.

I don’t see why that comes into he conversation when we’re debating the merits of Coombes vs Conan for the substitute back-row jersey.

And I absolutely think saying Coombes is “nowhere near Conan” is overstating it tbh.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209112#Comment_120209112

That's fair enough, but I disagree.

Conan is an 8. Doris can move to 6 later on.

You think Coombes is a better 8 than conan?

Also not much of a challenge at Munster for that jersey at the moment.

I still see it as Coombes v baird for the wc squad. Coombes at the moment IMHO.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209089#Comment_120209089

I thought Murray had a great game on Saturday and I do like him on the bench these days but it was noticeable how often he slows down our attack by pausing at the ruck every 3 or 4 phases, he just does not get the same fluidity as JGP even if he has upped the pace of his delivery most of the time. Even in the phases inside Wales' 22 for the first try Murray was ponderous at some of those rucks, at least not as lively as I would expect Park to be. I'm not sure if Casey is the answer or if Murray's pace is going to give France the time they need to stifle our attack but it is definitely an issue. A couple of Murrays box kicks were too long also.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209137#Comment_120209137

You think Coombes is a better 8 than conan?

I think they’re both very good players, but I do see Coombes as the better 8 and I certainly think he’s in better form.

I still see it as Coombes v baird for the wc squad. Coombes at the moment IMHO.

You see Coombes ahead of Baird, but Baird is essentially the guy who’s been keeping Conan out of the Leinster team at times this season.

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209167#Comment_120209167

That's cool. I like discussion, especially rugby discussion.

Baird is a 6 predominantly who can play in the row. No competition to conan. Again my opinion.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209183#Comment_120209183

I think that’s too simplistic tho.

Last season, Leinster’s first choice 6 and 8 pairing was pretty certain to be 6. Doris and 8. Conan. This season it’s been mixed between 6. Doris 8. Conan and 6. Baird 8. Doris.

Conan has been (indirectly) losing out to Baird at times. If he wasn’t competition of a sort, Conan would be starting.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209202#Comment_120209202

Cheers for making it simple for me.

This is exactly what I was saying! Neither Coombes or baird are a better 8. No where near. Doris can move to 6 if needed.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209228#Comment_120209228

Let’s just leave it at that I reckon; nowhere near is way overstating it imo.

clsmooth

Hoping to see Baird off the bench as back row cover this 6N. Don’t think it’ll be against France though but wouldn’t be surprised if it was against Italy and Scotland.

The explosiveness he offers as a 6 is a real point of difference. Think that was negated when he was played in the second row.

Sportsmad5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209075#Comment_120209075

I am old school, I like seeing my No8 scoring tries- Doris can do it, but look at Coombes v Conan.

Compare them since 16.01.22 (when Doris got 2)

JC Leinster appearances 14 + 5 as sub Tries Nil Ireland 4 + 8 as sub 1 try

GC Munster appearances 19 + 1 as sub Tries 9 Ireland - no games play

Looking at their other stats for this season (allowing for 503 mins v 942 played by Coombes)

carries, metres gained are similar, Coombes has 24 defenders beaten v 7 + 151 tackles v 54, even if you double them, to allow for minutes played, there is still quite a gap.

Just don't agree with Coombes is no where near Conan at 8

 

942 mins played

I think Coombes will need an injury to really get much of a chance between now and the World Cup and I think he needs International minutes to improve his game. Conan and Doris and whilst the gap between Conan and Coombes wouldn't be much Doris is one of the best backrows in the World right now.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209771#Comment_120209771

Cheers. Appreciate that. Lot of research there.

I just think conan has the experience and smarts. Do I think he's he better 8, yes. Coombes is the future, but I don't believe at 8.

leakyboots

Ah Coombes has been sensational bar his dip in October when he subsequently got dropped. As I pointed out on here before, he had an injury at the start of the season that kept him out until late Sept/early October. Might explain why he was a little slow to get going this year.

He's playing to a brilliant level, tackles, carries, lineout, groundwork, passing, tries... I don't know can he do much more to advance his case than he's doing. Hope he gets a couple of runs during the championship

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209876#Comment_120209876

Gleeson looks like he'll be kicking Coombes aside in a few years. Saw him for the u18's last year. Fcukin savage! I'd say he's the best #8 prospect over the last decade.

Akrasia

I still think the French pose a huge additional challenge compared to Wales. Ireland won in Wales because our defense was solid and we took our chances in attack. (Captain obvious)

France will stretch our defense because they have multiple attacking options with a much more powerful pack who will take more of our defenders to stop, and this will open up gaps in our defensive line.

To counter this, we need power. We're already down Furlong. Beirne is not the most powerful 2nd row. Conan is a good loose forward who can exploit gaps in the wide channels but we would lose out defensively compared to Coombes.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209957#Comment_120209957

If we start picking our team to suit playing France rather than the team that suits the way we play then we've already lost anyway. We saw against SA that we dont need to fill the pack with big bastards to win. I cant believe at this stage people are still claiming Beirne isnt a power 2nd row.

awec

The team stays as it is IMO. I don't see a reason to change it.

Aki / McCloskey is a 50/50 call, I think McCloskey has shown enough to remain the incumbent but also wouldn't be surprised if he brings Aki back in. I like the idea of Aki's impact off the bench against tireder legs.

Gavin Coombes is a great player but he's very unlucky at the options available to us ahead of him, and I'd be surprised if he gets capped barring injuries. Even Italy I think we'll go fully loaded or very close to it if there is a grand slam on.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120211061#Comment_120211061

Agreed , although I think for Italy we might see the bench swap over a bit with the starting 15 but I don't think we'll see many changes to the 23 - Now Italy don't continue to perform at the sort of level they displayed last week-end things might change , but even then probably not massive changes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120211082#Comment_120211082

Think we'll definitely see some movement from bench to the starting team. Some of that will depend on how Italy go against England and whether the France game was a blip or if they're more serious contenders this year.

Either way we've a tough run of games in the World cup with South Africa, Scotland and then all things going well either NZ or France. I think that will sharpen the focus this Six Nations in terms of how much we go into depth outside of the first choice 23.

I don't think Ross Byrne and Crowley will both come into the 23, but we could see something a bit different with Crowley starting and Sexton on the bench.

If Kelleher is fit I think this will be one he'll start, I think Henderson might come into the starting team for Ryan and if that happens I wouldn't be surprised to see Baird come in at six or Coombes at eight but not both.

I think Larmours form deserves a call up and possibly might make the 23 with Stockdale and Aki starting at 12 and 13.

All hard to know - but as I said I think limited numbers from outside the 23 we saw picked against Wales. Furlong, JGP or Henshaw find fitness and they'll be straight into the starting 15.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120211082#Comment_120211082

The Italy game comes after a dead weekend so the players will be rested coming into the game, I think one benefit for using the same 23 is it preps you for your knockout games in the RWC where there's no opportunity to rest your best.

Obviously, in making some switches it give you one more opportunity to see how the next of the best perform in a competitive environment away from home.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120211303#Comment_120211303

The Italy game is actually bookended by rest weekends, which I think makes it even less likely we'll see any changes that aren't injury enforced.

Bogwoppit

I’m not sure Aki/Mcloskey is a 50/50, while Aki had a good impact when he came on he looked as though he was carrying a few extra donuts. Perhaps that’s partly why he’s out of the Connacht team.

Would he be able to go for 80 minutes? Farrell will obviously have a lot more information to go on than me though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120211061#Comment_120211061

Agree, there's very little reason for change at the moment.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120211426#Comment_120211426

It was the same last year and IIRC Lowry for Keenan was the only real rotation.

pickarooney

Stockdale at 12? Wtf?