drawing up lease for land

Tomjim

I am leasing land through an auctioneer, 20 acres in total

The auctioneer has informed me that I will need a solicitor to draw up the lease, I always thought that the Auctioneer would draw up the lease and that this was included as part of his fee

When I checked with a solicitor they gave me a price of 1600 euro to draw up the lease.

Anyone any experience of this

Bass Reeves

I think Teagasc and IFA do a standard lease

Basically you have to send it to be stamped to qualify for the tax relief.

massey 265

Have a relative that leased 27 acres this time last year for 6 years through an auctioneer.the auctioneer firm had their own template lease that they use for all their leases.they charged 300 for first year and 100 annually thereafter.

Bass Reeves

Ya IFA gave a master lease that you can download. Read it and edit it if you think you need to

Tomjim

Where do u need to send it for it to be stamped?

Donald Trump

It used to be the case that the Stamp Duty was waived for a 6+ year lease

Your auctioneer is ripping you off. You'd be better off setting it to someone you know for a bit less of a headline price than paying 80 quid an acre to have the lease drawn up. He'll probably charge a small fortune as well for the honour of forwarding on the cheque to you once a year (he won't be there though in terms of chasing up money etc. if there are issues)

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120189554#Comment_120189554

Did you read the Original post. It was the solicitor that wanted to charge 1600 and yes it's a rob.

Generally Auctioneers do not do the lease as it leaves them liable for any mistake in it. They often recommend the UFA master lease.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120189530#Comment_120189530

Google it the main office is in DubyI think there is one in Cork asxell

atlantic mist

your accountant should be able to stamp lease

foxirl

Is it not up to the person getting the land to get the lease stamped?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120188857#Comment_120188857

I also looked at this from reading the legislation there is no reference to getting the lease stamped for claiming the tax relief. I am open to correction though.

zetor 4911

Lease has to be stamped to get tax relief.

caddy16

Hope you don't mind me jumping on this thread instead of starting a new one - if you are leasing land to a family member for a nominal amount are they're any implications with revenue? (Tax relief not relevant)

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210389#Comment_120210389

They are in receipt of a gift to the actual value of commercial rent. Now they can use the yearly gift allowance to defray the tax liability on this.

Nominal rent 100 euro, commercial rent 6k. Yearly gift allowance 3k. 2.9k taxable.

However if it was rented for two different people there should be no tax liability.

I am not sure what way an accountant treats it in his accounts. He is probably better off talking to his accountant

caddy16

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210541#Comment_120210541

Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense.

foxirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210196#Comment_120210196

Can you tell me where it states this?

foxirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210196#Comment_120210196

No mention of having to stamp the lease from this page on Revenue https://www.revenue.ie/en/personal-tax-credits-reliefs-and-exemptions/land-and-property/leasing-farm-land/index.aspx

Also I read the legislation and cant find any mention of it there either. https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-23/23-01-23.pdf

By no means am I a lawyer or accountant but I hate when people just throw out random statements and back it up with nothing.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120211969#Comment_120211969

It's a requirement of any commercial lease that you stamp it. A land lease is a commercial transfer

https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/stamp-duty/leases/rates.aspx

Teagasc go to bottom of the page.

TBH most of us know with years that it's a requirment.

Lime Tree Farm

From 2016 : Farming and the Law - Karen Walsh, page 138, Chapter6, Land Leasing

IMG_20230207_203316.jpg

foxirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120212095#Comment_120212095

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213128#Comment_120213128

I understand completely that leases needs to be stamped similar to if you purchase land I am not disputing that. It is up to the buyer or the leasee to get the lease stamped. However my point is that based on what I have read on the revenue site to claim the tax relief there is no mention of having to get the lease stamped.

I'm not saying I'm right but I can't see anywhere that you need the stamp to claim the relief.

I'm not arguing with anyone but would like to see something somewhere where it says you need the stamp for the relief

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213239#Comment_120213239

It is not listed on revenue because it a legal requirement to stamp a lease, therefore a lease is not a legal document until stored

Because it's a legal requirement to stamp a lease you cannot claim Tax relief until it's is stamped.

foxirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213386#Comment_120213386

Thanks Bass,

That's a fair point. How can you rely on the Tennant to get the lease stamped. I know in theory they should but you cant guarantee it. I looked into this years ago as was planning on leasing land but never happened. Just interested.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213426#Comment_120213426

I would presume it's a requirement to fit the tenant to provide proof of this to the owner.

sonnybill

Where do you send a lease to get it stamped?

caddy16

What would be the curent avg cost of using an auctioneer to lease land?

massey 265

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122658396#Comment_122658396

Auctioneer currently charging the land owner 100 eu annually for 6 year lease on 30 acres

yewdairy

Can never understand why lads waste money on auctioneers. Just use the IFA master lease. If things go south and renter doesn't pay auctioneer cant do much about it.

massey 265

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122659337#Comment_122659337

It tends to be the case a tenant will be more inclined to stay within the lease guide lines when dealing through an auctioneer as its in their interest to keep a clean sheet if doing businness with that autioneeer or indeed any auctioneer in the future as they are all in comunication with one another re clients payment ability etc, Also it can be benificial to the leasor re collection of annual lease fee ,water rates etc ,all handled through the auctioneer for the 100 eu annual fee.

k mac

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122659337#Comment_122659337

Am leasing land from a family member and was contacted both by phone and a letter from the department a few months ago to inform me the lease i had sent in was out of date and i had to send in a new one with it stamped by revenue. The last lease i sent in was the IFA master lease, but i happened to be talking to my ag advisor recently on a separate matter and when i mentioned it he told me they no longer accept the IFA one and i had to go to a solictor to get one done. Went to my solicitor and they quoted me nearly 1,000 euro for the f@@king lease….have just left it on the back burner since. If i do not send on a lease what happens, are some of my payments held?? Am tempted to send in an IFA one and just play dumb.

yewdairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122660025#Comment_122660025

Four bits of land lease here, it's all on the IFA lease and they have all been stamped by revenue. No body involved just myself and land owners.

I haven't heard that about IFA lease.

We have 20 acres of silage ground leased for 7 years. Previous too that, it was leased but renter didn't pay final two years of 5 year lease.

The land owner had given to an auctioneer and then a solicitor to get lease drawn up. He gave solicitor 1500 for the lease, when he went to the solicitor about the non payment. Solicitor said you can take him to court but will probably achieve nothing and cost land owner more money. My point is contracts mean nothing to people who won't hold their word. Therefore why waste money on solicitors and auctioneers when you can do it yourself

caddy16

This is to let it out initially, Auctioneer won't be involved after year 1. Need someone in between for a reason and want to see what a reasonable fee for advertising etc is.