Government's secret plan to block repayment of illegal nursing home charges

Quantum Erasure · 29-01-2023 12:37pm #1

https://extra.ie/2023/01/29/news/irish-news/secret-nursing-home-state

The top-secret files confirm the State faced the prospect of a €12bn liability in compensation for hundreds of thousands of families who were wrongly charged for the care of their loved ones over a 30-year period. Documents obtained reveal how successive senior government leaders acted in unison to thwart repayments worth billions to those wrongly charged.

They did this by backing a covert legal strategy designed to cover up the fact that the State knew it could not win hundreds of cases – some of which are still outstanding – taken by families affected by the scandal. As a result of this strategy, compensation was denied to anyone who did not have the resources to fight legal cases. The rest of the cases were all quietly settled by the State.

This could be big as it involves current government ministers.

SleetAndSnow · 29-01-2023 12:24pm

Surprised there hasn't been a thread for this made yet. Pretty shocking stuff here, story released this morning

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1619626168570859520

https://extra.ie/2023/01/29/news/irish-news/secret-nursing-home-state

Lots of current government officials in this

jackboy · 29-01-2023 4:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058281899/governments-secret-plan-to-block-repayment-of-illegal-nursing-home-charges

Suspect this story will grow legs over the next few days. So many of our top politicians going back years conspiring against the Irish population. It will be difficult for many of them to stay in politics after these revelations. It should finally put to bed any naive notions that our top politicians are there to look after the needs of Irish citizens. Also, the cross party element of this is extremely disturbing.

Ten of Swords · 29-01-2023 4:08pm

Mod - Duplicate threads merged

Floppybits · 29-01-2023 6:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173951#Comment_120173951

And this on top of the exposure of ordinary citizens paying for corporations energy bills which was brought in by Eamonn Ryan in during that Cowen disaster of a government. All this just exposes how FFG do not have best interests of the people of the country in their hearts. Its all about selling everything and stuffing their own pockets while ripping us all off and yet folks still say but but but look at SF, pathetic.

eggy81 · 29-01-2023 6:13pm

Corrupt to the very core.

SEPT 23 1989 · 29-01-2023 6:22pm

Anyone who has had the misfortune having to go to “the state” looking for anything knows how they operate

At a minimum this story should be a real eye opener for those who are lucky enough to have never dealt with them

but if this is as bad as it looks it could be the story that rocks the foundation of the Republic

deirdremf · 29-01-2023 7:12pm

I wonder how this week's opinion poll on the political parties would have looked if people knew about this when they were polled.

I'm pretty sure FG would be lower than the 21% they got here. FF probably would have suffered too.

Red C / Sunday Business Post 
SF: 33% (+2) 
FG: 21% (-3) 
FF: 15% (nc) 
SD: 6% (+2) 
LP: 4% (nc) 
GP: 4% (-1) 
PBP-S: 3% (nc) 
AÚ: 2% (nc) 
I/O: 11% (nc) 
January 2023

Overheal · 29-01-2023 7:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058281899/governments-secret-plan-to-block-repayment-of-illegal-nursing-home-charges

At least they were kind enough to commit their conspiracy to writing.

Coolcormack1979 · 29-01-2023 7:34pm

This should bring down the government,end off.fg ,ff,labour ,the greens don’t have the interest of the citizens of this country at heart.screw them to the ground but plenty for themselves and every fecker that comes here illegally.

now from reading bits and pieces of the story it’s very plain to see how the Supreme Court judge Seamus Woulfe had a neck like a jockeys backside and didn’t resign due to golfgate.he knew where the bodies were buried

but hey look over there at a few posters for paschal or some evangelical lunatic outside some school in the midlands

jackboy · 29-01-2023 7:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174670#Comment_120174670

Yes, there should be a general election over this. Any politician that knew about this should never be involved in politics again but if they want to brazen it out they should at least let the electorate decide if they should get another chance.

deirdremf · 29-01-2023 7:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174600#Comment_120174600

I'm sure it wasn't a conspiracy, just a meeting of minds. Nothing wrong with that either - is there?

pnott · 29-01-2023 8:04pm

100% the Dáil should be dissolved this week and an election called after a slew of resignations. This will be an interesting week. It will be difficult for the government to weasel their way out of this however they will try I'm sure.

Floppybits · 29-01-2023 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174816#Comment_120174816

Who can they blame on this?

BrianD3 · 29-01-2023 8:21pm

They'll try to muddle through this by pointing to 2011 being the middle of the financial crisis and how "difficult decisions were necessary to protect the taxpayer and state's finances in unprecedented times".

Also, seeing as Kenny, Gilmore, Reilly and co. are all long gone from the Dail, expect some of "that was before my time" type excuses plus the old reliable learning of lessons.

Floppybits · 29-01-2023 8:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174868#Comment_120174868

Can't see the likes of Woulfe or other senior civil servants caught up in this throwing themselves under the bus like stone did for Donohue. Varadkar and Martin are up to their necks in this.

Jarhead_Tendler · 29-01-2023 8:25pm

I look forward to the response from the usual government supporters on here to see how they play their hand. No post from any of the usual suspects in the 8 hours this thread is up. Must be some serious brainstorming going on.

eggy81 · 29-01-2023 8:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174900#Comment_120174900

The fire blankets will be out in the morning I’m sure.

jackboy · 29-01-2023 8:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174910#Comment_120174910

Any politician who comes out tomorrow to try explain, rationalise or justify this can be written off as pure scum. Resignations and apologies only will be an acceptable response.

pnott · 29-01-2023 8:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174863#Comment_120174863

Sinn Féin probably. They seem to be their go to anytime there is a scandal.

Floppybits · 29-01-2023 8:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174942#Comment_120174942

But they can't on this. This is multiple FF and FG led governments, nothing at all to do with SF with Martin and Varadkar up to their eyeballs in this. I'm sure they have their press gang looking for something to use as deflection. The home truths about the cronyism and corruption at the core of FF and FG are being laid bare. I don't know any decent person could still support them

deirdremf · 29-01-2023 9:07pm

This is the final chance for the Greens. It's not as if I hold out any hope for an ethical response from them, but when they say "nothing to see here" - as I expect them to do - any floating support they have left will desert them.

Ditto Fianna Fáil. They gave Paschal a pass over the last couple of weeks, but that won't work this time around. In fact IMO they may even come out of this worse off than FG - precisely because FG is all about interests, it's a coalition of various well-off groups whose only real policy is to look after themselves, and they have noone else to represent them. FF will still have some older voters who expect their party to look after them, and I can see them deserting FF in large numbers after this. They may not go anywhere else, they may just give up on politics altogether, and cause a final realignment in Irish politics by removing FF from the equation.

Floppybits · 29-01-2023 9:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175096#Comment_120175096

The thing is that FF are up to their eyeballs in this as well. There is nowhere for them to hide. Notice how quiet the FFG supporters are in this. Not a comment from any of them on this.

Jarhead_Tendler · 29-01-2023 9:45pm

No fear of any of the Ministers with form for leaking doing so here.

72sheep · 29-01-2023 11:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174900#Comment_120174900

Forget the usual suspects on here. Just savour the moment tomorrow morning when opening up the IT, Indo and RTE to see their "independent" coverage :-)

AndrewJRenko · 29-01-2023 11:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174863#Comment_120174863

I hear that Mick Stone donated the van to carry the plan around, so maybe they could get him to resign again.

BagofWeed · 30-01-2023 12:20am

The lack of posts is very telling !! All the major news outlets will spend tomorrow covering the adventures of Enoch Burke. And this will soon be forgotten.

Curse These Metal Hands · 30-01-2023 1:03am

Ah the old drag your citizens through the courts before they give up or you're forced to settle routine. I'm sure they'll be delighted that a lot of the people affected by this have died by now.

30-01-2023 1:20am

Holy crap!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175832#Comment_120175832

Give it a day or two for this one to cook. This affects a LOT of households.

Honestly this is something I could see bringing down the govt.

BagofWeed · 30-01-2023 1:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175929#Comment_120175929

Hopefully. It's being getting closer and closer to tipping point recently and this as you say affects a lot of households so with some luck heads will roll.

30-01-2023 2:07am

so they want us to fund compensation to people who bought shite concrete blocks

They’re happy to pay out for people who bought gaffs not up to fire codes and other safety codes to have them sorted

we’re paying out the nose for Ukrainian refugees and other refugees

but paying back people who were charged illegally for public nursing home care and those who should have been in public care but wasn’t able to afford was something that for nearly 12 years (and counting if they had their way here) they buried in order to make sure as few people as possible got back what was owed to them?

Fcuk me sideways.

SleetAndSnow · 30-01-2023 9:23am

Nothing in the morning papers, the journal posted an article at 12am basically and it's pushed down now, independent nothing, the Irish times similar to the journal. Interesting. David Cullinane was on newstalk at 7am alright I believe

10000maniacs · 30-01-2023 9:46am

We were living beyond our means and simply couldn't afford it. If there is stuff we can't afford, we shouldn't be doing it.

We were a country in receivership in 2010. As a country, we needed to smell the coffee.We didn't have a pot to pi$$ in.

horgan_p · 30-01-2023 9:54am

This predates 2010 by some fair amount.

And just because you're broke doesnt give you the right to rob or withold payment to someone you essentially overcharged.

deirdremf · 30-01-2023 9:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176423#Comment_120176423

I'm not sure if this is a písstake or not, it would be hard to fit more cliches into the same space!

10000maniacs · 30-01-2023 9:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176457#Comment_120176457

Where would you have got the money in 2010? Ask the IMF?

Floppybits · 30-01-2023 9:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176423#Comment_120176423

Is this post for real or is this going to be response of the government zealots to excuse this? Do you think this only started in the 2010? This was going on for years before 2010.

deirdremf · 30-01-2023 9:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175929#Comment_120175929

And not just any households, many of them would be FF households, who were used to being looked after by FF. Wouldn't it be a shame if they stopped voting for FF?

Floppybits · 30-01-2023 10:02am

Leo Varadkar is on the Pat Kenny show this morning, I wonder will Pat bring this up or will it just be a party political broadcast for FG?

deirdremf · 30-01-2023 10:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176465#Comment_120176465

Unless the law said otherwise, then this was illegal. Everyone involved must be shítting themselves, not just the pols.

Floppybits · 30-01-2023 10:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176482#Comment_120176482

Oh I agree 100%. Anyone involved in this including those in the Public Services should all be accountable. Time for those in the Civil and Public Services to be more accountable and have the heads on the chopping block. If they want the pay then there are conditions that should come with that and one on those should be accountability. It seems like those operating in the HSE are a law onto themselves.

howiya · 30-01-2023 10:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176423#Comment_120176423

While I take your point this is exactly what was suggested by Fine Gael when they were in opposition in 2010.

'Fine Gael believes the law should be clear and that the State agencies should implement the law as it is, rather than as they would wish it to be if resources to meet statutory duties are not available, the legislation should be amended to reflect practice.'

This would seem to me to be a reasonable way out.

However as yesterday's article stated.. "Eight months later, now on the other side of the fence in government, Mr Reilly got his answer - and quickly changed his tune."

Spanish Eyes · 30-01-2023 10:34am

As a person whose parent (now deceased) was unfortunately in NH care for many years I am appalled by this. To clarify, parent paid for the care from their own independent means, didn't qualify for Fair Deal yada yada, so I have no immediate skin in the game.

Does anyone remember the scheme a number of years ago to make refunds of NH fees under certain circumstances? I seem to recall that there was something like that around twelve or so years ago? Maybe that is the scheme being referred to. I know from a previous life that many refunds were made, but is it the case that it was only those savvy enough to apply actually got the refunds or what?

Goes to show that unless elderly unwell have advocates, it seems they are fair game for exploitation and that does not just include NH fees either.

maccored · 30-01-2023 10:46am

is this story even on RTE's site? doesnt come up in a search

keeponhurling · 30-01-2023 10:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176454#Comment_120176454

Yes, that's a fair point.

I can actually understand why the government might have thought this policy a good or "pragmatic" idea. I'd have a small bit of sympathy.

But ultimately, it is illegal. And to make it worse it seems that the policy (at least indirectly) targeted the worse off, who cannot afford legal fees to take on the State. They are presumably the ones who needed the refund the most.