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Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 6/3/23*



  • Registered Users Posts: 694 ✭✭✭ hamburgham

    International environmental obligations are routinely ignored. Letting all and sundry in suits the powers that be no end.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,940 ✭✭✭✭ ILoveYourVibes

    There is a huge overlap between legal immigration and refugees. The only true difference is money.

    Lots of Syrians enrolled in English schools etc. The only true barrier is that you have to have a certain amount of money in your bank account. And it's not that much. They came in the same way Brazilian and Latin American students come in. And the state makes a lot of money from them.

    Many people fail to realize that a policy like this IN PRACTISE will not reduce the no of refugees coming. It will make it so that they don't get financial support. But the govt has already said from here on in refugees will simply have to find their own accommodation.

    The problem is this all drives up the price of accommodation.

    So in reality your suggestion won't actually change a thing. It will however mean that refugees go directly into the private accommodation market thus driving up demand more.

    I just read an article about a Mexican dentist who came here to learn English is paying 700 euro for a room he shares with 4 working three jobs and going to college. It's just complete exploitation.

    You can move the rules around refugees and immigration as much as you like. It won't change a thing. Because Irish people are making money from it.

    Anyone can come here on a student visa and learn english they just enroll in a school for like three classes a week. They get nothing free though and they are often charged even more than irish people for accommodation but they don't know they are being ripped off. They are told it's easy here because people are making money off it.

    And refugees often do this too. It's not a question on whether Ireland will take's a question of whether we are going to EXPLOIT the vulnerable for money or help them.

    Refugee policies and immigration policies are NEVER about reduction no matter what people tell you. IT'S about how much we are going to exploit them monetarily vrs how much we are going to help them.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,940 ✭✭✭✭ ILoveYourVibes

    Human beings are not PETS ...they are not animals you dont TAKE THEM IN live with them and they live with you. And i have lived with many non irish people some were refugees. You literally have swallowed the language and phrase of someone else and regurgitated it without even analysing it. That speaks a lot to lack of cognition.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,940 ✭✭✭✭ ILoveYourVibes

    The general public don't have the expertise to decide on policies like that.

    There are extremes on both sides. We would either be too strict or too lenient.

    I don't believe that an English school should be allowed to sell a package to a person in latin america or syria or india or nigeria or algeria trying to avoid drug wars or civil wars or corrupt govts telling them they can come here live on 500 a month and pay through the nose for a handling fee and tuition fees then charge them 700 euros per month to live in a room with 4 others.

    And again the false narrative is that it's a culture war between the left and the right. It's not. The number of refugees and immigrants won't change.

    And if people believe it's a culture war then they really don't understand the reality of the situation. There are vampiric industries that must have their fodder.

    It's never about reducing the numbers. It's about the balance of how much we take from how much we give. The idea that changing immigration policy will suddenly free up the housing market or the social housing list is the most mis guided take on all of this i can think of.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,940 ✭✭✭✭ ILoveYourVibes

    Tbh if ONLY the irish working class and immigrants refugees would unite in their common interest ..IF ONLY.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,940 ✭✭✭✭ ILoveYourVibes

    I can answer the first question for you. YES ...they are willing to take them into their home and charge them 700 euro a month. I can personally attest to this.

    Yes i have lived with immigrations and refugees ...they have contributed what they could and i didn't exploit them. That is not taking people in. Everyone contributes something to a household whether it be cleaning or childcare whatever only this is all unofficial.

    And will you stop using the phrase are you willing to take them in they are not kittens you find on the street. They are people.

    The complete lack of understanding of reality on the ground of some is really telling in this thread.

  • Registered Users Posts: 22,229 ✭✭✭✭

    Are you taking a refugee in to your property? A simple yes/no please.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,940 ✭✭✭✭ ILoveYourVibes

    i have done yes and STOP USING THAT PHRASE ...because that is NOT what its like

    it makes it seem like the ukrainian refugees are not contributing anything to the households that have taken them in which is obviously in unofficially most cases false unless you are incredibly naive.

    Not even financially etc but childcare or even cleaning etc.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,940 ✭✭✭✭ ILoveYourVibes

    i dated an algerian guy this is how the whole thing works

    most of them don't come as refugees ..although they could ..but you lose control of your life most try to come as students ...they speak many languages in algeria french arabic and usually get taught english and have usually good education they get accepted their family puts all their savings into a bank account to show that they have enough ...(you have to show a certain amount in your bank account to be accepted to the program)

    So then accepted they pay the college fees (which by the way subsidize a lot of irish college students partic if its trinity etc) . They then find their own accommodation and often end up paying more than the average irish person would pay like 800 per person sharing a room with four in galway. They studying during the day and work in the evenings. They do this until they realize they are being exploited or they do it for five years after finally getting on the right visa for five years and can apply for citizenship.

    Most of them don't come technically as refugees. Although they could. But you can't work and you have to live where the govt puts you. Many find that worse and feel the govt puts them in unsafe conditions.

    As many as there are milking the system i assure you the system milks them more.

    This also happens with syrian men also ..i once did a college course and a syrian guy sat next to me.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭ rgossip30

    Those who get leave to remain or refugee status are assisted in finding housing . They don't remain forever in DP 😂

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,940 ✭✭✭✭ ILoveYourVibes

    But that is the thing ...refugee status is that?? I know lots of syrian refugees who never had refugee legal status ...and that is exactly why they left the country and they left at the time of the war ..but they never got it or they thought they were better off coming as students

    now that might be a class thing i dunno mentioned i am big posh d 4 head ...i would think if you are a homeless person in a warzone things might be harder.

    but i mean they were starting from scratch ...they had nothing one was giving them free anything they didn't even have medical cards

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭ rgossip30

    They should have sought asylum

  • Registered Users Posts: 22,229 ✭✭✭✭


    Post edited by on

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,940 ✭✭✭✭ ILoveYourVibes

    Aren't you against refugees at all you were giving out about them a moment ago???

    That is not all it's cracked up to be. You can't work or study. The govt moves you around the country. Even with social housing just like with an Irish family you have to accept the house you are offered. It's impossible to save.

    Also it's a psychological thing. If you came from a working family it's difficult to accept now you are a refugee.

    They are probably better off in the long run doing it their way. Plus its less socially isolating.

    And tbh they probably feel they are contributing more and believe that HAVE something to contribute to society. They feel they have more control this way over their lives. Plus at least they have work experience and certs from whatever courses they have studied.

    If seeking asylum was so easy you wouldn't have evening classes full of Syrian students in trinity or english schools full of students from latin america.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,940 ✭✭✭✭ ILoveYourVibes

    Yes I dated an algerian guy ..tbh i found him a bit needy but a nice guy....he lived in galway me in dublin so it was hard it was never going to work tbh plus he neglected to text me when he went to algeria for a month then acted like it was all hunky dory when he got back then went back to being all needy ..and i resented it .Tbh i mostly wanted to practise speaking french with him. Ok rant over.

    I grew up next door to immigrants all of my childhood actually. The next door house was on lease to at one time a couple from saudi ..then a couple where there guy was from argentina and the woman from spain.

    I have to be honest I wouldn't feel any particular way. But then i have lived aboard and am used to things.

    What is the diff between a load of irish white guys and immigrant guys??? They are prob all gonna be Mens rights activists in 5 years anyway the rate things are going hahahahaa

    It's the person is the character of the person. Im just being honest.

    However if resources in my community that i relied on were scarce and i was being made feel ashamed for asking for them like i dunno houses medical cards if a certain pm had told me to just get up earlier in the morning ..and then if someone told me lots of people from somewhere else were getting those things ...and i was naive enough to believe that **** ..i might be angry yeah. But im pretty savvy

    Im not trying to pick a fight with anyone who thinks differently from me. All i am saying is if the working class and immigrants got together to fighting for resources would have a lot more power.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭ rgossip30

    You forgot to mention those that come legally . Give that Irish households have 1.7 birthrate that is not enough to sustain the population and those that emigrate . There are 155k since 2011 who have got Irish citizenship and now classed as Irish. I fail to see why Irish would be putting a strain on housing . A link to justify your claim .

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,940 ✭✭✭✭ ILoveYourVibes

    what on earth are you talking about i went to a school where for one of my classes i was the only white student

    I have just told you all of my childhood i always lived next door to immigrants. It's like being excited for the breadman!

    I have always had to deal with it....and therefore i can tell you there is nothing there to deal with!

    like what ..what???

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭ rgossip30

    Yes but that does not justify a no cap refugee and asylum policy .

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,940 ✭✭✭✭ ILoveYourVibes

    What doesn't? The fact that no matter what you do nothing will actually cap the refugees ACTUALLY coming?? Good luck with that.

    unless you stop all wars all poverty ethnic conflict and racism good luck lost cause imo

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,940 ✭✭✭✭ ILoveYourVibes

    hahaha so you are an expat not an immigrant right? let me guess spain? You leave your place empty half the year right?? six months empty in ireland and six months empty wherever else?

    I hope you at least speak spanish or Portuguese or whatever language it is

    oh well i won't judge. you do you. guess you earned it

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭ rgossip30

    Wrong but you can leave out the guessing and personal remarks .

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,940 ✭✭✭✭ ILoveYourVibes

    there is no denying that immigration is ONE of the contributing factors. But there are many others.

    Our govt encouraged builders to immigrate and retrain during the crash and the industry was decimated. It didnt do anything to get them back or help the industry. Builds take forever.

    There is very little mark up for some reason i don't fully understand builders say they can only make a profit on luxury housing and not the average accommodation most irish people would live in.

    The govt refuses to build social housing either to sell or rent out. It RENTS from private owners now mostly. There are understandable reasons for this. One creating entire communities of social housing in the past hasn't worked out. However it created a situation of the govt spending dead money.

    Lastly there are number of just empty properties. Its not profitable to rent out for small landlords or people don't want to. They can make more from airbnbs. And i mean im not judging said people they are free to do so its their commodity. But irish people tend to put their life savings IN property because there is nothing else to invest in. It's rare to find people in their 50s with like 500k in savings in the bank because the interest is not good. Again that is a failure of the govt but then again we will never be like london when it comes to financial services nor like the USA with stock market opportunities. Most irish stocks have a poor return on investment. Property is the only way in ireland to make money with money.

    So while immigration is a contributing factor its not the only one. I mean immigration and refugees didn't stop during covid but rent went down simply because airbnb properties were put on the housing market. So we know that when we DO built only a part of that number built is going on the actual market.

    And i mean where you most see it is not just in rent its buying for first time middle class buyers ...refugees and immigrants are not usually in that market.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭ rgossip30

    Low income migrants who cannot afford housing . In the mid 70's Ireland was the second highest in the world for owner occupied houses.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,940 ✭✭✭✭ ILoveYourVibes

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