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'I pay €700 for a bed in a room with four people'



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭ recode the site

    I believe France has overall best healthcare system in the world, and Germany is very good. Somebody I met (who broke her arm whilst on an extended holiday staying with relatives in Germany) told me she got superb treatment. Was operated in and spent one overnight, then transferred by paid-for taxi to a suitable hotel for a well which the hospital uses. All transfers to and from clinic for physio and check-ups were covered by the healthcare system, until she was declared for enough to fly home.

    Do one thing every day that scares you

  • Registered Users Posts: 37 palette

    The ideas above are for nothing when faced with the truth of the matter that there are far, far too many people after moving here.

    That's the source of the strain, and no amount of fiddling with building regulations or tax is going to come close to solve it. As amply proven by the entirety of time of this housing crisis.

    If a hundred thousand extra homes were to magically appear overnight, how quickly would they be filled by the government tripping over itself? 3 or 4 months of ukrainian refugees and all the rest? And then what?

    As a mental exercise, if needed, imagine a sudden departure of 400k people. Forgetting any other impact, what would happen to the housing crisis? To rents? To availability? To mobility?

    Its awkward to tackle, but it's not going away by ignoring it. To the contrary, the longer it's ignored, well, look around.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭ AlanG

    I know of 3 landlord with 4 properties that are leaving the market. reason is

    • the risk of a SF government not allowing them to sell with vacant possession. It would devalue the house by 20-30% in their view.
    • 3 year wait and legal costs to get non paying tenants out
    • Any who did the decent thing ppost recession and kept rents low were screwed by the gov an don't want to be bitten twice.

    Also with property inflation now well below standard inflation there is even less profit. Add to that the gov takes around 30% CGT on any price inflatio without allowing for market inflation and it means if your house goes up in value 10,000 nominally but even stays the same in real terms then you have to pay 3,000 in CGT even though your asset has not increased in real value. Gov got rid of inflation indexing for property CGT many years ago so it is a major penalty in times of price inflation.

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭ recode the site

    I’m just listening to a fluent & articulate “English language student” on the radio. He speaks much better English than many Dublin natives.

    Do one thing every day that scares you

  • Registered Users Posts: 37 palette

    Let me translate your insinuations for you.

    "There's one bloke on the radio not from ireland that can speak better English than some Irish people. Therefore, he is better than those Irish people with a poorer education that are more likely to be on the receiving end of the impact of imported labour, therefore those Irish people deserve to be replaced or run into the ground. The poor should shut up and stop spoiling my party. That's my solution to the multiple crises in the country"

    You can dance around it all you want, but that is what you are saying. It's fairly pathetic.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,316 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    "We need homes for families Joe, not skyscrapers for transient populations"

    We don't have proper housing because we refuse to build it and object to any and all attempts to do so. The majority of people who say they want the housing issue sorted are lying.

  • Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭ Emblematic

    At the core of the problem is the reliance on owner occupancy as the dominant model for housing. This goes back generations and is possibly due to folk memories of famine and corrupt landlords in previous centuries. I think only Romania in the EU has a higher rate of home ownership.

    Owning your house is fantastic but the problem in places like Ireland is when you have something like the financial crisis and lending to individuals gets unfairly tightened up. In countries where rental is more established, people just carry on renting but in Ireland it creates a housing crisis as the flow of money into buidling new units gets cut off.

    Another problem with a very high rate of home ownership is that politicians are reluctant to do anything that might upset house prices. Therefore there's a bias against new housing developements, apartment blocks. Planning systems are slow and too much credibility is given to objectors of new developments.

    Further exacerbating the problem is the popularity of property as an investment for private individuals. It has been fairly common for people to buy one or two properties as an investment to supplement their pension. The problem with this is that they form another voting block against which politicians are reluctant to act. What they should have been doing is facilitating the funding and building of new units to compensate for the tightening of mortgage lending but this never happened to any great extent.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,661 ✭✭✭ Yurt2

    "I think only Romania in the EU has a higher rate of home ownership."

    As of 2022, Ireland has the 9th lowest rate of home ownership in the EU 27. In fact, the story may be worse still for Ireland given how the stats are collated: AFAIK an adult son/daughter living with parents aren't tenants for statistical purposes and are bungled in the "home ownership" bracket.

    What was true in the early 90s or so, is now utterly not true. Older generations haven't noticed the massive shift and appear blissfully unaware, the political system has only in the last 3 or 4 years admitted that something is seriously awry and that home ownership for younger generations is dropping like a stone.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,346 ✭✭✭✭ whisky_galore

    1900s Tenements but 2020s style.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭ HerrKuehn

    There will need to be a move here to an expectation of long term rental then. It doesn't necessarily make sense that everyone would be able to afford to buy a home. Houses in the 80's were basically concrete shells with single glazed windows and no heating systems. They have become much higher spec and therefore more expensive to build.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,983 ✭✭✭ Gusser09

    Well this is BS. A quick scan of Daft/Myhome shows whole single rooms to rent for 700 in lucan / celbridge etc.

    Typical "irelands a kip" clickbait crap.

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,213 ✭✭✭✭ Grayson

    It's not just that, we need a greater density of housing. In every other city in europe there's apartment blocks everywhere. Even outside of the city. In ireland it's huge swathes of low density housing estates and they're all pretty close to the city.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭ HerrKuehn

    Well I don't disagree that we need more high density accommodation. We would need to be careful about the type of people housed in high density though, or at the very least move people out who cause problems.

    Also, I wouldn't really see Germany as a place we should be looking to replicate. It is very difficult, if not impossible, for average people to buy there too. I think the housing issue here is really 2 things, the rental and ability to buy, these are often conflated. I don't think the majority of young people would be happy with German level prospects for buying a property.

    Germany has an even lower percentage of the housing stock as social housing than we do. Rents vary a lot, I am not familiar with Dusseldorf accommodation, but they can be quite high in the bigger cities. Often salaries are lower than here, it depends on the industry, tech would be lower, nurses wouldn't even consider working in the German system where they are treated like skivvies. It is the same as anywhere really, you need to belong to the group that is doing a bit better than average and then you will be ok.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,609 ✭✭✭ daheff

    they do want building. but labour & materials are short. so costs are high. the market can only bear so much at the moment. Build too much and supply will drive down sales price. which means developers won't make a profit (or maybe not as much of a profit as they need).

    if you remember the boom days building sites were staffed full of eastern europeans. a lot of them went home/to uk after the bust and never returned.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭ HerrKuehn

    I think most in the property industry would like to have a stable market where they can plan long term

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,213 ✭✭✭✭ Grayson

    The ratio of income to rent is far better in Germany than it is here. And there are benefits to higher density housing. I'm not talking about massive blocks that are 20 stories tall but just bigger than what we do now. It's unusual to see a building anywhere near the city centre in germany that's less than 6-7 stories tall. Because of that it's easier to cycle, it's easier to provision public transport. There's a greater density of amenities.

    Ireland is more like the US. Big sprawling suburbs. Very few rail links and that's because people would still need to drive to their local train line or tram because the estates are so big. So then we rely on busses which are stuck on roads that are jammed with the cars of people commuting. When I lived in blanch there was a shopping mall and a small main st. The main street had very few shops worth visiting. If I wanted to get a train it was a 25 min walk. So there's busses that take ages to get into town. Or to any other place in dublin.

    Here because of the higher density the main streets in suburbs have every type of shop you could imagine. The subway/tram is only a few minutes away too. And there's plenty of parks/stuff like that.

    Irelands solution is to keep building out. Build more sprawling suburbs in towns near Dublin until they all merge into each other.

    BTW, you're right about not as many people buying here but that's because it's cheaper to rent and it's just as stable. In ireland I was always scared of the landlord making something up to kick me out. Now I don't worry about it. You can actually plan long term and be in rental accommodation here.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,661 ✭✭✭ Yurt2

    Correct, the quality of rental stock in Germany, as well as the diversity of units on offer (studios all the way up to spacious multi bedroom flats for families) is far far superior to Ireland. Landlords also have a tendency to view letting out property as a long-term play of consistent income over the years rather than a quick buck, and law in the various Länder tend towards encouraging this.

    It's a large country with a diverse property and rental market, but I've no problem in saying that in aggregate it's far more affordable and socially sustainable to be a renter in Germany than in Ireland. It may as well be a different planet.

  • Registered Users Posts: 604 ✭✭✭ thinkabouit

    No accommodation

    whatever you do find you’ll be exploited & pay pretty much most of what you’ll earn

    so working for nothing really

    yet still hundreds of people want to come here

    I can’t figure out these people’s logic at all.

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,213 ✭✭✭✭ Grayson

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭ HerrKuehn

    Yeah, I am not disagreeing about the benefits of high density living. The area you live in, the ruhrgebiet, is the most densely populated part of Germany. I am questioning whether it is the best, or even a good option, for young people who would like to eventually own their own home. I am not sure how long you have been living there, but do you own where you live? Did you buy it recently (last 10 years)? Prices have gone up a lot in Germany, although they are probably starting to fall now with the rising interest rates.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,213 ✭✭✭✭ Grayson

    I rent. And people here complain about the rent because in Dusseldorf it's more expensive than anywhere else around here. But it's still a fraction of what it is in Ireland. And the one thing is that I'm more secure renting here. If I were to move back to Ireland I'd only do it if I owned my own place. The idea of renting long term in Ireland is scary. What happens when I'm a pensioner? I could be kicked out at any time.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,872 ✭✭✭ Beta Ray Bill

    The census data suggests otherwise

    166,000 vacant with nearly 50,000 vacant for 6 years.

    That's seriously bad news.

    It's reported now that 1% of the population/entities in Ireland basically own 27% of the country

    Think about it, if all those properties suddenly became available to rent/buy the demand would fall off a cliff (So long as property ownership and controls were put in place) and hence the prices for renting and buying would also drop.

    There are "officially" 48 TD's that are land lords and of the 48, most are FF and FG with some SF and Ind. They aren't going to change this, they'd be hugely out of pocket as a result.

    Our political landscape is busted completely, half the Dail are millionaires, they do not represent Joe Public in any real sense.

  • Registered Users Posts: 344 ✭✭ Digital Times

    The article doesn't detail what visa he is here on but I'm assuming its a student one as he is studying English. Doesn't a student visa limit you to working 20 hours a week during term time? While studying in the morning he admits to holding down three jobs and not having any days off so I'm sure he is well in excess of 20 hours a week.

    There are language schools in every major city in Ireland and you would get a 4 bed house in most of these cities for less than 2800 a month. A lot in this article does not add up. I wouldn't be surprised if the same people look for the working hours on student visas to be extended soon.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭ HerrKuehn

    In Germany a lot of the properties for rental are owned by large landlords, like REITs here. I think it is a better system. There are still rentals owned by small landlords and they can get the property back, even if you have been there 30 years, if they need it for their own use. There are a lot of similar problems in Germany to here although maybe not to the same extent.

  • Registered Users Posts: 12 sellinggaff

    South American students and a lot of the West Europeans who live in Dublin have one thing in common.

    Most of them point blank refuse to consider living outside the canals. This lad could find a room (albeit a small one) for around the 400 mark in Tallaght, Blanch, Finglas etc etc etc, but for whatever reason decides that proximity to town is more important.

    I'm on a few Housemates Dublin pages. Posts along the lines of "my budget is 800/ 900/ 1100" are commonplace.

    For Google workers, you ask?

    Fcuk no. For Spaniards, French etc working as au pairs, cafe workers, modestly paid call centre staff etc etc. More backpackers than immigrants.

    Perhaps it's a cultural thing, but plenty of W Europeans in Dublin taking home far less than 2k per month seem to find nothing strange about paying half their wages on rent in a shared flat.