Smart Meters - ESB - mandated in-home displays?

mihalk

ESB are rolling out smart meters in our area.

I have a "smart heating" system which could interface to an in-home display/its interface (for completeness this is Wiser Insights+ in my case, but it could be any other smart heating system)

I can't find any clear definitive information about in-home devices and whether they can/will be installed when the smart meters are installed.

Some threads I have read say ESB will provide/install these, others that companies like bordgais etc. will provide them... (ESB pass you to bordgais, bordgais pass you to ESB...)

Another thread said there are 2 interfaces on the devices being installed. One to the 2G/3G/xxG mobile network and another to your home - e.g. something "like" zigbee or wifi or... but that this interface is currently sealed off...

The CRU document at https://www.cru.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/CER14046-High-Level-Design.pdf seems to say the ESB must provide an in-house device. They call it an MIHD - "mandated in-house device" that "will be offered to all residential customers" .

Can anyone shed light on this?

How can one ensure that the smart meter install will include the in-house device?

Capt'n Midnight

Have a check over on renewable energies https://www.boards.ie/categories/renewable-energies as they'd be the ones monitoring power.

Isn't there web access ? Not sure if you could get something like an Owl or what it can be read by.

ted1

After trials in home displays were dropped. There been several updates to that paper

mihalk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120106140#Comment_120106140

That's interesting - do you have a link to these updates? Thanks

ainiseoir

I have been informed by a person who should know, that the only people that he knows who have got these horrendous bills have smart meters.

He also said that they cannot force you to change to a smart meter, is this true?

BagofWeed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319107#Comment_120319107

I posted this a month ago.. So I don't have one and my bills ain't bad.

delly

As a smart meter recipient, you won't see any change inside the home, as outlined above. Depending on what plan and company you go with, the most you will get is a half hourly usage report, which is a far sight from seeing a realtime impact on your device usage if you had an in home display.

For some perspective, I have found it great in reducing my bills using the off peak for certain tasks. It won't work for everybody, but was also lucky to have signed up to an SSE 33% discount rate in March last year, so have had that discount applying for the period of the price hikes.

Here's what a bill looks like if you are curious. This was for December and January.

zg3409

In terms of technology the Meters use mobile phone technology and they send regular readings to esb networks on usage.

Some suppliers can provide a totally separate box that sends messages to a display inside.

Different providers have websites that can display info and some "insights" guessing what usage is washing machine, cooking etc.

In terms of smart versus non smart in general you can refuse a smart meter. They normally give a letter in a few weeks in advance of install with contact details. Some down sides to doing this. If you later decide to go smart there may be a long delay. Your meter may no longer be read by a person so you may need to submit regular meter readings. If you get solar panels you may not get paid export income.

The upside, if you decide you want a night meter you can get one. You won't have peak pricing and you can have a 24 hour rate.

If you get a smart meter you don't have to change to a smart plan, however if you do YOU CANNOT switch back to a non smart 24 hour plan. Many people are not opting for a smart plan and they get no "insights"

In theory smart plans should have great rates at low demand times and high rates at peak times. If you move your usage to non peak times you should save. However the actual plans offered seem to be bad value compared to 24 hour rates and night meter rates. The companies seem to be using smart as an excuse to confuse and overcharge customers. In general all esb bills have doubled so everyone is getting hit, but more so smart meter users if the cook on electricity 5-7pm.

ainiseoir

I think the last paragraph of zg3409 sums things up pretty well.

rogue-entity

For displays: All smart meters have the means to output their data on standard protocols, if you have access (it depends on the meter) you can generally get information like current supply voltage per phase and the current load in Amps or Volt-Amps.

The only protocol I'm aware that the Kamstrup meters installed by ESB Networks supports, is DLMS and in the majority of cases the data communicated over that protocol is encrypted. I don't know if there's support (perhaps a terminal block hidden behind one of the seals) to provide an M-Bus connection so the options open to you are limited here.

ESB Networks are unlikely to provide any details on how to access the live data from your own meter, they may see that as justified out of concern that some security weakness may enable theft of supply or other tampering. So the only practical option is to fit a clamp probe onto the supply leads to transmit load information coupled with another probe to measure voltage so you can work out Watts consumed and take things from there.

For plans: Currently I think there's no advantage in a smart plan, and for many people, probably won't ever be until the utility companies get serious about it

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120515775#Comment_120515775

I thought the whole point of smart meters is that the household could see live usage.

Yet you are saying that is not possible.

Jesus Wept.

Why bother installing 1m+ meters, if users can't access the data?