UK state pension

Dodge

yearly averaging uses the time when you “entered insurable employment” in Ireland and stops at 66

So if you started work at 16, the divisor is 50

If you started work at 50, the divisor is 16

(Your “total” contribution divided by the years to get your average)

It helped people who joined late, and punished those who joined early. They use “insurable employment” as it includes PRSI paid at class B, D etc to stop (for example) Garda retiring at 55 with a full public service pension, then working for 10-11 years in the private sector and getting a full state pension too

From this year, a combination of averaging and the TCA is used for everybody (unless they have full 40 years)

Goldengirl

Yeah I was panicking because I started working at 16 in summer holidays as did my oh so we were in that group paying stamps but small amount of contributions initially .

RCSATELLITES

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123540753#Comment_123540753

Thanks for confirming what I said was correct. 👍👍

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123539086#Comment_123539086

And #955

I was not talking about someone being able to claim both full amounts from each country.I simply meant that foreign income(the UK pension) for this discussion would be taxable[see GoldenGirl posts].35 years for UK pension if claiming after 2016.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123540753#Comment_123540753

Any D stamp holder would need to have entered the public service straigh from school and never had a summer job where they paid an A stamp. One A stamp at 15 or 16 and game over ball burst. Very few gardai went straight from school to Templemore, actually nearly 10o% would have historical A stamps. It was more likely someone that joined the PS from exams they had back pre 1990. However they still needed 520 to activate so they would not have a full public service pension.

However we were discussing a full UK and Irish OAP. Virtually impossible from now on. Historically maybe although unlikely.

With the new TCA method for a full pension being implemented over the next 10 years yearly averages will be zoned over over that time frame as well

Dodge

I was just explaining why they used “insurable employment”.

For most ex/public servants (and more), it isn’t about getting a full pension but rather getting any state pension - because that gives access to secondary benefits such as the fuel allowance, living alone allowance etc

We’re off topic here.

Widows Son

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123539086#Comment_123539086

I am sure I will have a full UK pension. I checked my Irish contributions this morning and if I continue to contribute until retirement age will have forty full years and a few partial. Are you saying it is unlikely I will receive a full Irish pension?

SCOOP 64

I will only have 27 years when I claim the Irish pension so won't get full Irish pension so have to top UK one to 35 years even then might not get the UK 35 years because I opted out in the 90s for 10 years so might only get 25 years if I understand it right.

RCSATELLITES

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123542823#Comment_123542823

Yeah same here I will have both full. I suppose it depends on how long people worked in the UK away from the Irish workplace. I only did a small stint of 2.9 years in UK, but with the generous buy back option I have 13 years. Need another 22 years, while I have 26 years until retirement age.

Fann Linn

Just paid £2900+ this week for the 18 years from 06 until 2024 inclusive as identified by HMRC in their letter to me. I paid this in one lot to the NIC account and attached my NI number plus IC plus initials etc as required by them.

I'm assuming they will allocate this and receipt me in the future as they only proof of payment is my revolut statement.

Should I complete another CF83 form now so as this year's deduction plus my remaining contributions are deducted by annual direct debit or will HMRC send me a demand from now on?

Thanks again.

RCSATELLITES

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546215#Comment_123546215

Have you opened a HMRC UK pension forecast account if not here is the link.

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

You don't have to send another CF83 give them 2 weeks then it's best to ring them and tell them what years the payments are for. If you have paid 2024 -2025 then around April / may next year you will get a letter requesting payment for this year 2025-2026. I received letter requesting payment at start of May for £179 for 2024-2025.

You can send lump sum, send cheque or set up direct debit. Not sure exactly how to set up direct debit but I will read it on form when I get home.

Fann Linn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546294#Comment_123546294

Thanks. I have they HMRC app but that's still set at my class 3 deductions which I disputed so I paid class 2 as per their letter. I've tried ringing but was over an hour on hold so hung up and just paid the demand.

I'm up to date now so I'll just wait for the letters going forward. Btw, is there an advantageous time for ringing HMRC? I've tried both their 1800 plus 0044 numbers and can never get through. All I've done is incurred about €30 worth of increased 'phone bills.

NIMAN

Could I ask a question here that maybe some of the experts might know?

Is it possible to get both the full UK pension and the full Irish pension? Is there any circumstance where that would happen?

I always assumed that when you came to pension age here, if you were in receipt of the full UK pension, then the state won't give you a full Irish one as well, perhaps making up the difference?

crinkley

I will receive the full UK pension, if I decided to work in Ireland until I’m 70 I’d be entitled to a full Irish one. I won’t be doing that and I’ve calculated I’ll get 85% of my Irish state pension but I have an occupation and private pension so will be in a good position.

My mother is currently in receipt of both full UK and Irish. Moved to England young, is part of that cohort of women who can retire at 60 with a full state pension and didn’t start working in Ireland until we were all raised so worked for 15 years here paying in

Dodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546341#Comment_123546341

both pensions are contributory pensions, so you’ll get what your contributions earn you. This thread is basically telling people with very little (in the grand scheme of things) UK contributions how to pay for more to get a better rate there.

Now, the only way you’ll get a full Irish one is with 40 years of contributions (including any credits) so you’ll need to spend of the rest of your 16-66 time spent working in the UK to have any hope of getting one there too.

RCSATELLITES

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546335#Comment_123546335

Yes mine was set at class 3 aswell so think it's just the default. But why I ask is going forward now that you have paid the app is actually useful in that it gives the information below like what years you have paid, how many years you have left to pay what you are entitled you at the moment and what you will be entitled to if you pay all 35 years.

00441912037010 that's the number I rang, I would suggest at around 10am as both times I rang at that time they answered within 15 minutes. I also used a free app for calling the UK, I wrote about it a few pages ago. They give you a week free to try it so I used it to ring them then cancelled it before the week was up.

Fann Linn

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

RCSATELLITES

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546921#Comment_123546921

That's no problem. I checked about the direct debit set up. You will need a UK account for the direct debit to be set up. It does look like you need to fill in another CF83 section 6 and then give details on last page. That's if you didn't complete that section the first time you sent it in.

I had paid my back dated years before the last tax year ended in April. So in May I received another letter requesting the payment for 2024 -2025 and I sent the payment when I was able to get a good exchange rate with my bank.

I am going to do it this way going forward as I have control of when I send it and exchange rates. The app for the last payment was updated within a week of me sending payment so I didn't need to ring. My account shows that year as fully paid and the weekly payment went up by around £7. 👍👍

GreenTea777

My husband and I missed a phone call from the Future Pension Centre and weren’t able to call back. Last week, my husband received a letter dated 25 May 2025 confirming Class 2 contributions, which need to be paid by 25 June 2025. I'm a bit worried because I haven’t received any letter myself. Also, I'm unsure why his letter is dated 25 May, but he only received it now.

What should we do next? Call the Future Pension Centre or HMRC?

Also, does anyone know what the penalty is for late payment?

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123546341#Comment_123546341

Yes.

There are thousands of people living in Ireland, who worked for 3 years or more in the UK in the past, who have and are paying voluntary NIC to the UK, to bring their contribution years up to 35, meaning they will get a full UK State Pension.

Meanwhile, the same people are working here, paying PRSI, and could also get a full Irish State Pension.

There are thousands more people who may not meet the criteria to get full UK + full Irish, but they may get close to full State Pension from both.

kjbsrah1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123570320#Comment_123570320

Its snail mail. Average of 3 weeks for a letter to arrive here that was posted in the UK. They still have 1st and 2nd class postage and most post like this gets posted 2nd class, which is why it takes ages unfortunately.

Fann Linn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123570320#Comment_123570320

I was in the same position a few weeks back. I received a letter week ending the 8 June which was posted 16 May. It too had all my class 2 contributions.but it had two columns relating to the latest date for payment and also if penalties could accrue.

In the meantime I also took a call from the future pension centre. They just wished to verify my name, DOB, NI insurance number and contact details IE phone and email etc. I told them I had just received a letter with a list of payments due and the deadline and I asked her what should I do? She stated that she couldn't advise me one way or another. I asked again about the seriousness of the deadline and she told me just to ring the number on the letter and look for advice there .

I rang the UK number and number of times without success and all I did was run up a phone bill for €25.

In the end I paid all of the demands for the years in question myself to the UK account number through Revolut last Friday week, two days before their deadline. In my opinion I paid everything which they demanded as per their letter and so I'm up to date to year end 2024.

I'll ring the number next week which will be two weeks from payment and seek to find out when my app will be updated. I know I paid it into the right UK account because when I inputted the BIC IBAN Sort Code numbers my revolut account identified the number and pre populated it.

I was in the lucky position to have a few €000 saved for a rainy day but it appears to be a bit of an underhanded way to send out a letter and demand payment with only a few weeks left for a deadline.

Lemsiper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123570320#Comment_123570320

My letter arrived two weeks after the stated deadline date. I rang them and was told I had 31 days from receipt of the letter to make payment

GreenTea777

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123570419#Comment_123570419

Thanks for all the information. Can we make the payment over the phone? If not, what are the other payment options?

GreenTea777

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123570421#Comment_123570421

That's what I thought at first, but the letter states it must be paid within 31 days of the date of the letter.

Fann Linn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123570454#Comment_123570454

The girl I spoke to would not give any information at all. I got the info from here on this site so I transferred my €s into sterling on revolut and then through my UK account on revolut I just paid it into the HMRC NIC receipt account through their account number and sort code.

I don't really know if you can pay over the phone but in reality with my attempts to date I believe I'd be still hanging on if I was to go down that route.

I believe the other methods of payment are bank transfer from the Irish mainstream banks if you can find a branch that has actual people in it and a banking payment method called CHAPS which I have no idea what it is.

GreenTea777

Does anyone pay class 2 directly from Bank of Ireland or Permanent TSB? Is it straightforward? What are the HMRC bank details?

Fann Linn

https://www.gov.uk/pay-class-2-national-insurance/make-online-telephone-bank-transfer

For your attention

EarWig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123570511#Comment_123570511

Permanent TSB will only transfer a Euro amount which is converted to Sterling when it hits the UK account. They say there is no fee on the conversion, but can't say the exchange rate. So, you have to guess (I took 1.5% off the CNBC market rate).

Their note field was also too small (in my case) to comply with what you are told to provide, e.g. this wouldn't be possible.

…………

If your name is John Douglas-Hamilton and your National Insurance number is QQ123456A, you’d write the reference as QQ123456AICDOUGLAS-HAMILTONJ

…………

The guidance does also state "If your bank limits you to a certain number of characters, use your National Insurance number followed by ‘IC’ and either as much of your surname as possible or the first 5 letters."

I've read in this thread that BOI can do Sterling amount transfers.

The HMRC bank details should be on the back of the letter they sent you.

Lemsiper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123570458#Comment_123570458

She started laughing when I told her the letter arrived after the date I was due to pay by and she said it's quite common so they say from the date of receipt is now accepted (call was recorded both ends [I recorded in case there were any issues])