Short-Term Tourist Letting Register

pjs32

Anybody know if this will affect someone who is renting out a bedroom or 2 within their family home and is not in a rent pressure zone?

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058274918/short-term-tourist-letting-register

From what I have heard, no. This is targeting people renting out short term rentals. The idea is to convert short term rentals for tourists, to long term rentals for homeless people. It wont work of course, but in any event it wont go near rent-a-room.

MagicJohn

I currently rent out my apartment on air B&B when I'm away on business or holidays (up to the 90 days allowed per Year).

So now I will need planning permission for change of use for my own principal residence to go on a register? i.e. Airbnb is effectively over as an option for me now?

ballyharpat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119968967#Comment_119968967

If you can provide proof to the local planning authority and to Bord Failte, you shouls have no problem, you only need to do it once and then its ok, from what I understand.

I do Airbnb from my home and I rent it out as a whole unit when I go away, I will have no problem following their rules, I think it's needed, especially in places like Kenmare, Dingle etc, where there are no places for staff to say that provide services for tourists, so people have been cutting off their own supply and businesses were then closing during the winter as there was no one staying in the property that would be used by airbnb guests in the peak season.

Just my 2 cents.

lotusm

We do short term let's to an annex on our family home which was a granny flat ( 2 bedrooms ensure and kitchen only) its not suitable for long term let's as in very rural location. I suppose I will now have to pay bord failte to register for this quango... bet they will charge full wack regardless on how much business we do which is only usually the late spring and summer months

The Spider

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119969728#Comment_119969728

Do you have to pay to go on the register? I didn’t see any mention of that.

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970023#Comment_119970023

Dont think that has been mentioned, but using the "Property Owner Pays" principle I would expect there will be some kind of charge.

Homer

If the government think that this will bring landlords back to the market in droves then they are even more stupid than I originally thought!

ballyharpat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970311#Comment_119970311

I think it will bring more houses to the market though-airbnb has been a very easy way to make a lot of money. Especially people that are retired. I've met a lot in the remote tourist regions that do airbnb, they pay very little tax and they hire a person 8 hours a week and get 12-1800 per week for 9-10 months of the year. It's a no brainer.

Will it fix the problem? no

Will they rent long term? no, not in the state the rental market is in at the moment, everyone blaming landlords for the problems, and the paperwork and legislation involved is way too much , and that's only about the good tenants, throw a bad tenant into the mix and it's a full time job to be a landlord and/or try to get them out.

pjs32

thanks for the comments thus far - so can anyone confirm that renting a few rooms out within the family home on airbnb type thing is exempt from this new law? it is outside the rent pressure zones.

tvjunki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970434#Comment_119970434

Just read citizens information site.

Exemptions from the planning permission requirements

You do not have to apply for planning permission if:

• Your property is not in a Rent Pressure Zone (RPZ)
• Your property is in an RPZ, but you let rooms or the entire property out for 15 days or more at a time
• Your property already has planning permission to be used for tourism or short-term letting purposes
• Your property is used for corporate or executive lets. For example, lettings provided for people coming to Ireland under employment contracts.
• You rent your property out under the rent-a-room scheme
• You are ‘home-sharing’. Home-sharing is where a homeowner rents a room or rooms in their principal private residence for short-term lets while they are also occupying it. (In this situation you can offer unlimited short-term lettings for less than 14 days at a time.)
• You rent out your entire principal private residence for short-term visitors for less than 90 days a year while you are temporarily away. The 90 days do not have to be consecutive.
• The property is purpose-built student accommodation. (This accommodation generally has the required planning permission, which means accommodation is reserved for students during the academic year, but short-stays are allowed outside of term time.)

pjs32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970733#Comment_119970733

The citizens infomation site has not been updated to show the new regulations, from what I gather - if you are renting out anything, even 1 bedroom in your family home then you would need to register - which will be pretty difficult as you would need to apply for change of use etc.

Shauna677

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970023#Comment_119970023

Of course, they in the business of extracting money out of you, another big quango https://www.failteireland.ie/Supports/Get-quality-assured/Welcome-standard/Welcome-Standard-FAQs/Q-What-is-the-cost.aspx

They make property inspections and also have rules around service provision and also you will need a fire cert.

Shauna677

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970837#Comment_119970837

If you letting out a room or 2 in your own home, you need to contact the Council planning dept to register, they will send you out a form I think it's called a form 15 to fill up to say you are home sharing along with proof of your ownership, bank statement etc and then that's the end of it......for now anyway

MrMusician18

Looks like this will kill casual short term lets stone dead. A typical earner will need over €500 in bookings to break even on the likely registration charge alone, on top of the hassle of it. If you are into Airbnb in a big way, it won't change the calculus much

One off rooms however will not go into long term rental, they will just be unavailable. The measure itself won't have a real impact on rental availability and will just increase pressure in the tourist accommodation market.

Everyone loses.

Shauna677

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971190#Comment_119971190

The letting of a room in your own residence will continue, there is no problem there as I said above you just need to register with the council. Airbnb was set up on the principal of letting a room or a sofa in ones home but it blew up into a monstrous organisation where whole blocks apartments and houses were purchased specifically to rent on Airbnb, that has to stop.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971772#Comment_119971772

Bord Failte have indicated that you will also need to register with them if you are short term letting rooms in your home - the link is in the post above. There will be a fee, recurring annually for this. The level of this fee has not been set, but if it's like BF's other fees it will be about €250 in year 1 and €150 every year to renew.

As I said, it will kill off casual short term lets for no tangible benefit. Rooms will lie empty, instead of bringing in visitors.

From BF website, information advance of the new regime:

What is Short Term Tourist Letting Accommodation?

Anyone offering paid accommodation for periods of up to and including 21 nights will be required to register on the Short Term Tourist Letting Register.

Short Term Tourist Letting properties include the following:

• Room(s) in a primary residence

• Entire property (includes but not limited to; a house, an apartment, cabin, boat, yurt, treehouse, etc)

• Multiple units at a site / Complex (eg. adventure centre with accommodation, glamping site, multiple ‘own door’ units in the one building)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971809#Comment_119971809

Rooms will lie empty

Why do you think that? I see people saying that but there is no logical justification behind it that I can see so I'm honestly asking for an explanation. What am I missing here?

Like if I have a 3 bed house, I'm using one and have 2 bedrooms on airbnb and I pull out of short term lets, why would I not put those up for long-term let? I can make 14k tax free a year off those rooms.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971849#Comment_119971849

Why? Because having a full time lodger is a much greater imposition than having someone stay for a holiday.

A casual Airbnb user, say one that does three weeks of short lets a year likely doesn't want a full time lodger (otherwise they would have one in already). They will just forgo getting involved at all now since the taxes and charges make it not worthwhile.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971867#Comment_119971867

Ah ok, see I disagree. I think this will push more to do rent-a-room as its a nice little earner as an alternative to short-term let.

Sure some won't but I'd wager a fair number will.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how it plays out

MagicJohn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119969511#Comment_119969511

Prove what though?

I live between two places, when I'm working in Dublin I use my apartment there for that.

I'm still none the wiser with this announcement from the Government - is the 90 days allowance now being done away with?

Honesty this country is getting more and more unlivable every day.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971879#Comment_119971879

rent a room has always been a nice little earner as an alternative to short-term let.

Short term let is far more hassle - but the benefit is you do not have a permanent resident in your other room. People who didnt rent a room long term before, are not going to do it now. More likely that the room remains empty.

pjs32

From what I understand - everyone will need to register if renting out a room for short term - the issue is whether you will need planning permission, the below image how it is a moment - I dont think this will change..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971964#Comment_119971964

Again, I disagree.

If you are a home owner who has had a nice little earner and that goes away but you have an opportunity to earn 14,000 eur tax free, you'd be an idiot to turn your nose up at it.

However, as neither of us can offer any evidence for our respective guesses we'll have to wait and see how it all plays out

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971998#Comment_119971998

In a practical sense that won't work for many people. You might be able to tolerate having a short term let in your house while you yourself are away. You may not even have the space for a lodger, if the short term let bed is also your space when you are there.

Many of the casually interested in Airbnb are just not going to bother anymore imo.

I can guarantee that it will have unintended consequences - the same as all ill thought out populist policies.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972038#Comment_119972038

We'll see. One thing is for sure, its a popular policy with those without homes at present. The only ones calling it populist are the ones looking to make a quick buck

Economics101

So letting your house for days per year will require planning permission? Local planning offices are already stretched and as far as I can see fail to enforce existing regulations properly. Given the absymal performance of the PRTB in registration of properties (as per recent letters in the Irish Times) the last thing we need is more work for already overloaded and at times dysfunctional planning departments.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970434#Comment_119970434

It’s allowed. They are licencees not Tenants

Shauna677

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971998#Comment_119971998

Letting a room in your home under the rent a room sheme is great for first time buyers needing a bit help with the mortgage but forget about it for older settled people who have their mortgages etc paid off. And the rest majority of Airbnb places particularly in rural areas are run by older people as far as I'm aware. Older people like their privacy and do Airbnb for a night or two here and there. Who wants a long term tennent in their home, using their kitchen, fridge, living room etc, not a hope would many do it, same as so many pulled out of hosting ukariane refugees when they realised what was involved. . Besides what tennent will be willing to pay €14000 a year to rent a room. It's all a big shambles.

Shauna677

You are mixing this up with the rent a room scheme which is totally different than letting a room out in Airbnb.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972226#Comment_119972226

And the rest majority of Airbnb places particularly in rural areas are run by older people as far as I'm aware. 

I'd love to see the data on that, have you a source as airbnb don't publish that sort of information afaik

Shauna677

I can't rem it was something that was released few years back.

Here is one link

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30872671.html

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972262#Comment_119972262

Cheers for that

Though if the motivation is, as per the article, "down to them wanting to earn some extra income and meet people from around the world" the the same objectives can be met through the rent-a-room option too, especially where the additional income is concerned

danoriordan1402

Just getting my head around this - is this just for second homes, not a persons PPR? we have a small b&b in a tourist town in an RPZ, open for years, no planning required as we have less than 4 bedrooms as per the local council planning requirements, So looks like now its signing up to register and go for planning - this will drive a lot of rooms off the market. This is not a long term fix. Bizarre

Shauna677

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972314#Comment_119972314

No it isn't, Airbnb guests for most part are out all day. You have a mixture of different people coming to stay for few nights from around the world. You might have few free nights before another couple book in. You can set your Airbnb calender to how you want to take bookings, block dates etc.

Someone in rent a room scheme is different kettle of fish, they in your house sometimes all day, every day, using your heating, cooking facilities etc. Many hosts will not do it, It's simple not going to happen.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972045#Comment_119972045

I'm not a home owner myself, but I can see that it won't work. If the State wants to control housing costs, it either has to build more accommodation or reduce demand. It is not doing either of these things.

It won't result in a massive number of new beds available for letting. It won't result in loads of new entrants to the rent a room scheme.

It will result in an even tighter short term accommodation market, since the State has been buying up rooms like no tomorrow. It's extra petrol on on the fire that is the tourism sector.

Shauna677

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972363#Comment_119972363

There is so much clarity needed. Best email your local political representatives. Bord Failte website announces, every one must register with them, from renting a room to whole houses, so no one has an iota what's going on.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971772#Comment_119971772

This is the crux - that and the various factors that attract landlords more towards short term lets where they previously let longer term.

I hope it works, about time some structure was put on the model and the greater public good is considered.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972437#Comment_119972437

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972447#Comment_119972447

I disagree

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972045#Comment_119972045

Well said. You hit the nail on the head, and therein lies the root of most of the housing problems in this country.

Shauna677

The legislation, pages and pages of it...

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/b3f11-short-term-tourist-letting-bill/

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972486#Comment_119972486

How many rooms do you have let out in your house?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972675#Comment_119972675

2, you?

arctictree

So why are they doing this bord failte register when you already have to register with the local council when doing short term letting? Will this replace that?

Shauna677

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973357#Comment_119973357

Sister rang bord failte today, they informed her all the bits of the legislation has not gone through the house yet. She said once it has gone through, bord faillte will have all the details on their website.

For now, people need to contact the planning dept of their local council explain to them what they currently letting on Airbnb, if it's a room or two in your own home, you fill out a form 15 and show proof of address. Even if you are in rent pressure zone you ok to let room/rooms in your own home. Then when legislation goes live, the council will contact you and you will be informed to register your short term let on the bord failte website, it will be a simple process, she said no body will be calling to your home to check for quality control or anything like that. When you register you will be given a registration number which you will then provide to Airbnb or booking.com and then you can carry on doing your short term letting.

People letting out whole apartments and houses in Rent Pressure Zones might find it much more difficult to get planning from the council in which case you won't get the registration number from bord failte to carry on with the short term letting.

Hope this clarified matters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119974425#Comment_119974425

it will be a simple process, she said no body will be calling to your home to check for quality control or anything like that.

Not yet. If you know anyone with a regular B&B you'll know how onerous the inspections are.

It'll only be a matter of time until FI say some of the standards of accommodation are crap and hurting the image of Ireland which will open up the avenue to allow them to start inspecting. Refuse the inspection, lose the registration.

Using FI allows the govt to require inspections themselves if the registration process isn't freeing up enough additional capacity in the long term rental market.

More than 1 way to skin a cat.

Shauna677

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119974495#Comment_119974495

That's down the line and to be fair it's just a registration process with bord failte. Tourists/ travellers booking with Airbnb or booking.com will know the score, they read the reviews then book accordingly.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972708#Comment_119972708

None, I don't have a 2nd bedroom which is suitable for longer stays.

Even if I did I don't think I'd let it out: a home office would be my priority for the space if I had it.

And if i had the luxury of a 3rd bedroom, then occasional short-term guests would be better than long term housemates.

arctictree

So if we have a property that DOES have planning for short term lets, will we need to register with Failte Ireland? At the moment, we don't have to register with the council.

Shauna677

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119974610#Comment_119974610

Absolutely everyone will have to register with bord failte. The booking sites will be requesting the bord failte registration number from you, if you don't have it you won't be allowed advertise on the sites.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119974544#Comment_119974544

Aww ok