Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Sunny Disposition

Not an expert on Russia by any means, but I find their behaviour on the world stage chilling. Plus Putin is a thug on a personal level.
It seems to be a very different culture. Through business I've encountered a few Russians and find them very different to westerners, tougher, less sympathetic.
Guys I know who did business in Russia hated it, very high level of corruption, can't get things done in the same way as in western countries.

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Russia has serious issues. Their population is declining by almost a million people a year. Demographically this will weaken them massively, on the other hand this may also make them take more aggressive actions.

Gatling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Russia has serious issues. Their population is declining by almost a million people a year. Demographically this will weaken them massively, on the other hand this may also make them take more aggressive actions.

They also have an increasing Chinese population ,in Siberia locals are concerned that China could well pull a Putin and send troops to protect this citizens (not ever likely to happen).
But look at the last 100 years of history in Russia , despot leader's who killed tens of millions of their own people in various purges to hang on to power ,and a security service kgb (fab) keeping any decent to a absolute minimum , near 100 years of paranoia about the west wanting to surround and invade them ,
Corruption is rife in daily life , from average Joe on the street to putin himself,
There's people in Russia who want Eastern Europe to Berlin back under occupation ,

randd1

It should be renamed from the Russian Federation to the Russian Legitimate Businessman's Federation.

Their government is little more than a ridiculously well armed criminal enterprise at this stage.

You need only look at the HSE hack. Not the first time either, other countries, corporations and bodies have been hit by Russian mobster. It can't have gone on this long and this successfully without Government assistance.

The sooner they fall off a cliff the better.

Hasschu

According to Le Monde (French newspaper) Russia has brokered a peace deal between Armenia and Azerbaijan which was finalised earlier today Nov. 16th 2021.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178614#Comment_118178614

They broker multiple peace deals with their own forces and Ukraine multiple times which they went on to break themselves .

Shao Kahn

Beautiful country. I've met many cool Russian people, with a great underrated sense of humor.

Not perfect by any means, but they get unfair treatment from western media at times.

It's becoming pretty clear that they had nothing to do with the US election result. I wouldn't be holding my breath for anyone to issue an apology to the Russian people for this (apparent) deliberate slandering of their nation.

Does Putin not seem eminently sane whenever you see him talk?..

SupplyandDemandZone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178948#Comment_118178948

Agree fantastic people and country. The propaganda directed at them over the years is pathetic.

As for people wanting them to fall off a cliff yeah that's what we want a nuclear armed country falling off a cliff. That'll end well 🙄

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178972#Comment_118178972

Unlike counterparts in most western countries he knows what he is doing and doesn’t need excuses. Unsurprisingly this scares the masses and explains the obsession with finding shocking newsworthy stories that happen in the largest country in the world.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178972#Comment_118178972

I agree he does seem very sane and refreshingly sentient. But then his actions are jarring. Like the troops build up in the Ukraine. Or the cyber attacks on the West. Or his apparent tolerance for the Belarus nutjob with his weaponised migrants scheme.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179603#Comment_118179603

But like, haven't the west being trying to destabilise the Ukraine for a while?..

He flat out denied that they were behind the cyber attacks in one interview I saw..

I don't know about Belarus..

Mad_maxx

Russia was never a democracy, it never went through a liberal transformation like western Europe, culturally it's very different, Russians have always liked a "strong man " leader .

It's less of a threat to the world than China by a distance

Gatling

The question that has to be asked what happens when putin is gone ,can't see anyone else coming through thats as dangerous as he is ,

Look at Ukraine as above ,close to 100,000 russian troops on the border ,now according to Russia they are not involved in Ukraine ,yet 2 weeks ago the Ukrainian army blew up an artillery gun that was in an area of Ukraine firing at Ukrainian military ,they used a drone to hit it , fairly quickly an artillery bombardment was launched inside of Russia again targeting Ukrainian military ,

This nonsense he needs the 100,000 troops to stop an invasion by nato needs to be publicly called out ,or call he his bluff and move NATO forces in big numbers into Ukraine and let NATO take control of security for Ukrainian airspace and borders

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117509190#Comment_117509190

A truly dismal summation of Russia, its history and its people.

Russia's 'paranoia' goes back a lot longer than 100 years. They have good reason to be wary because they've been fighting off invasions for 1,000 years, from west to east. As for your aforementioned 100 years; they fought in World War 1, World War 2, had a half-century long Cold War that could have ended humanity at any moment and recently have seen the increased circling of NATO on its borders. "Paranoia"?

Corruption is rife among the average Russia...a scurrilous accusation.

There's people in USA who want the return of slavery.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117508934#Comment_117508934

Source? Wiki tells me that although deaths exceed births it’s compensated for by immigration. Not unlike most of the west. The population has increased since 2010 but did decline 2019-2020. Not by 1 million though

i’ve noticed that even though there’s a huge omerta about fertility levels in the west (which are dire) it’s only used as an attack on China and Russia.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179829#Comment_118179829

They have a growing population of foreign nationals living and working there in some cases illegally ,the Chinese population is supposedly several times the official figures ,in Siberia there has been calls to limit the number of Chinese coming out of fears they could do a Putin and send troops to protect their citizens ( doubt it would ever be possible )

lenny palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179787#Comment_118179787

Most countries have been invaded over time on many occasions. The whole map of Europe has changed numerous times as I'm sure has most of the middle East and the far east. Even over the past 20 years maps in Eastern Europe have changed, the Western part has settled down it seams. Most of Western Europe are not paranoid about being invaded like the Russian seem to be. Or as the countries around Russia seem to be, but these countries are worried that Russia will be the invaders

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179633#Comment_118179633

But what does Russia fear exactly with regard to Ukraine? "Destabilising" Ukraine by giving them moral support and encouraging democracy is a long way from threatening Russia.

Nobody is going to be thinking of invading Russia anytime soon so why the paranoia of "the West"?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179918#Comment_118179918

Take a look at their borders, and then look at western nations. We have buffer states between us and most trouble. Russia covers a huge area with many unstable nations nearby.

As for fear, the US has allies and bases all around Russia. Their strategy of containment gives plenty of reasons to be fearful... especially for Russians who have no common trust in the US the way European nations have. There is no historical friendships, or alliances. No commonality between cultures. And they've seen US aggression across the globe, and the near constant propaganda coming from Western nations about Russian behavior (whether real or not). They've as much to fear from the US and it's allies, as China does. Which is reasonable in my mind.. considering that the US is a warmonger with a huge reliance on it's military production to keep it's economy afloat.

Look at the US and European behavior over the last four decades, not as an European or Irish person.. and you'll appreciate that there's plenty to be wary about.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179953#Comment_118179953

It is when they want Ukraine returned to Russian control. Do you think the US would tolerate Texas being independent on their borders, or demand that it rejoin the union, because of historical borders, and the resources it contains? You know well that the US would do anything to retain control over its states, including warfare.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179787#Comment_118179787

Corruption is rife among the average Russia...a scurrilous accusation.

It is commonplace... however, I would point out that while Northern Europe is relatively clear of corruption, both the US and our Southern European nations are very corrupt. Italy, Spain, Greece. Anyone crying out about Russian corruption is obviously ignoring them. Just as the US is a wealth based culture with the power firmly in their control, with voter fraud, and manipulation of voter districts... There could hardly be the systematic discrimination directed at African Americans, without there being ongoing corruption. Hell, just look at the personal wealth of US presidents between entering and leaving office... oh no, that must all have been acquired legally and without any compromising efforts. Remember the Clintons with their Charity efforts? Oh, no, that's not an indication of corruption in the land of the free.

I've noticed a willingness to ignore the corruption/negatives within western nations, while doing everything that can be done to show the corruption/negatives of non-western nations. Double standards abound when we compare western nations to those who are on the **** list.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118180926#Comment_118180926

Are you equating Ukraine being in the USSR to Texas being in the USA?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178972#Comment_118178972

Controversial, but I like him on a lot of issues. Not everything.

Listen to some of his interviews with Russian media. Really insightful, direct, addresses questions, hates this modern Western wokeness, The interviews can last for 3-4 hours at a time. I can't imagine any Western leader, Martin, Biden, Johnson etc. being able to do anything similar. He's also unapologetically pro-Russian, something I would be stunned with if any Western leader came out and said about their own country.

I'm aware he can be criticized on a number of fronts as well.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118180926#Comment_118180926

But yet nobody in Ukraine wants to be forcibly returned to Russia, Crimea barely had a russian majority ,who previously ignored a free russian passport drive,

Russian military takes to the streets a sham election where in most places 110% of the population voted to join russia,

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181101#Comment_118181101

Yeah, that's what I'm saying..

Seems completely reasonable, intelligent, and understanding of the realities of diplomacy..

My views on Crimea are totally biased because I know someone there very well and they were very happy with it. There was a pretty big ethnic Russian population there. Historically, it's Russian only leaving it in 1954. The people I know were not particularly pro-Ukraine at all.

I think Putin is a pretty abhorrent man but he does come across very well as a leader. There was a famous video of him talking about American installations in eastern Europe and the effect it was having on relations. You'd be hard pushed so find such an honest and forceful dialogue in many other leaders, who say one thing and do another.

As always, when you live in one of these places and see how normal everyone actually is, the scaremongering becomes tiring. I'm surrounded by three tables of "commies" as I type this and they're having more craic than most groups of people in Ireland would be having on a Wednesday night.

My best friend moved to Moscow recently and says it's great. I can't wait to visit St. Petersburg and Moscow in the next few years. Some of my older colleagues studied there, and some people in my girlfriend's family, and they all have good things to say.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118180926#Comment_118180926

The time to sort that out was 30 years ago when the USSR collapsed. Ukraine gained its independence along with several other states. The case is closed. There should be no need in this day and age for aggression in that part of the world. The Cold War is over. Time for everyone to move on.

Yeah, Northern Ireland was done and dusted a hundred years ago. Time to move on.

Or does it become more complicated when 65% identify as from another country.

I tend to base most of my impression of Russia on mid 19th century literature I've realised..

Communism probably hardened them and made them more cynical, but I get the impression the old Russian spirit is on the way back for some reason..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181083#Comment_118181083

Not really. Its more to do with how the nations concerned would react, and their perception on things. To Russians, Ukraine is part of Russia.. the same way that Americans would look at Texas.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181145#Comment_118181145

And if Texans wanted to be separate from the Union, do you think their desires would be respected? Come on, honestly, do you really think the Federal government would allow the loss of Texas regardless of the reasons?

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181503#Comment_118181503

So in Russia's case if Germany went and took Kaliningrad back would russia kick up stink because they only took post ww2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181485#Comment_118181485

Which is easy to say when you're on the outside looking in... and how would it have been sorted when the USSR collapsed? It's just convenient for the West that Russia was weakened by what happened. To Russians themselves, and to many people in those former states, they consider Ukraine (and others) to be part of Russia. It's not sorted in their minds, and I doubt it will be sorted any time soon.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181574#Comment_118181574

Absolutely not ,

In Crimea from the threads back then russians only had a small percentage of a majority not a massive majority , something like 10 % in the difference at the time , but in many cases 110% of the population voted to rejoin Russia , despite blocking the Ukrainians and others from voting ,and bus loads of Russian troops and various Militias they sent were allowed to vote ,

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181369#Comment_118181369

Both St. Petersburg and Moscow are wonderful cities. Highly recommended, although St. Petersburg is the real jewel. I've loved each of my visits to Russia.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181593#Comment_118181593

Absolutely not... so.. you believe that the US wouldn't allow Texas independence?

Oh, and as for Russian behavior, they'll do anything to get what they want. I'm not trying to defend or justify their behavior. I'm merely pointing to what I consider to be double standards being applied.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181577#Comment_118181577

I have no idea. I am still shocked that place exists on a map. Never looked into its history as I'm not big on newish history in general.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181599#Comment_118181599

My girlfriend is ethnically part Chinese and is fascinated with that part of her history and speaks Mandarin. Her grandfather raised her with all of the Chinese history and mythology. It will be good to go there with her as a guide of some sort even though she hasn't been yet.

We're both interested in Russia as well and if my friend is still there, it would be great to see him and see some of the sites.

Bucket list item is to sip tea on the banks of the Neva River in Saint Petersburg like some Dostoyevsky character of old. A wet Tuesday winter night would be perfect. Gopnik beating a dog in the background. Steam rising from me samovar. Civil servants arguing in upstairs apartments. Everything in its place.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181586#Comment_118181586

The Russians lost their chance when they mismanaged the USSR until it crashed into the rocks and broke to pieces. The people who were in charge of those countries then are now in their old age or probably even dead. There is barely a collective memory in Ukraine or Russia of the old Soviet Union. An entire generation of adults weren't even born at the time. E.g. a 30 year old now did not spend a day under Soviet Russian rule. It's quite clear that Ukraine are quite happy to be independent from Russia. That should be respected by Russia. End of story.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181622#Comment_118181622

It's a Weird one it was German but its not in Germany it's actually sandwiched between Poland and Lithuania ,so not in Russia either it's also home to a lot of nuclear warheads and other weapons

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181880#Comment_118181880

Complicated politics and a millennia long history can't just be solved with an "End of story." haha

Russia and Ukraine literally started out together as part of Kievan Rus in the 9th century. Novgorod (Russia) was its first capital followed immediately by Kiev. Kiev was the capital for nearly 400 years until the Mongol invasion.

Richard Hillman

Vlad is doing a tremendous job. He made Russia relevant again and keeps the country together, in a very very diverse ethnic landscape. He has ran the show in where all of the leaders of the Republics can only function under his approval.

People in our part of the world don't understand it. It is the way Russia has to be governed and the people know this.

The way they interfering in Western public discourse is quite genius too. It is the likes of Russia that are amplifying the crazy's (left and right) and the crazy's don't even realize it. They create division to weaken rivals. Now Vlad is a Big Dog again.

Xi Jingping is the alpha male of the world. Vlad is the Sigma Male. Doing his own thing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181880#Comment_118181880

Drop the "end of story" routine.

It's obviously not the end of the story, since Russia remains a realistic threat to them, along with the strong possibility that neither Nato or the US would intervene. As for your reasoning, grand.. although on a personal front, I know Ukrainians who consider themselves to be Russians. So, I wouldn't consider it to be a closed book. Nations don't like giving up on territories that was once theirs... We've had 5/6 decades of peace in Europe, but that's a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of warfare that went before it. I wouldn't be so quick to assume Europeans (and others) have all become so enlightened and have moved beyond such considerations. (although I guess it's easy to be enlightened when you're from a neutral country on the edge of Europe protected on all sides by other nations)

Podge_irl

Russia can think whatever it wants. It doesn't detract from its behaviour and actions with regard to Ukraine. It is essentially the equivalent of the UK invading Drogheda.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118182707#Comment_118182707

Seriously? You think Drogheda has the amount of natural resources that Ukraine has?

And Russia will do whatever Russia wants to do. Putin has been extremely good at judging the attitudes of the Western nations so far, and that's likely to continue. In any case, it's unlikely that anyone will intervene to stop Russia from taking over Ukraine, except for some roaring speeches, and possibly some economic sanctions after the fact. The US will want to keep Russia neutral and uninvolved if they have to tackle China later..

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118183714#Comment_118183714

Not sure of the relevance. Russia's self-interest does not excuse their actions, which is what you appear to be trying to do.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118183714#Comment_118183714

Where does it stop ,if we all stand back and allow Russia to take all of Ukraine , Ukrainians certainly don't want that ,but let's say they do go all out and take Ukraine by force , where next , Georgia, Moldova , Lithuania , Latvia , Poland ,he will then Have to take back half of Europe ,

Why? The usual reply on boards has always been he has nuclear weapons , what are we supposed to do ,

He's never going to go nuclear ,he's backer are too rich and powerful to allow one man to burn it all down ,and I've said it a few times when putin falls or dies it's all going to go to **** pretty fast ,

We need not just NATO but a strong EU army that doesn't have the limitations of NATO let's not support Ukraine or elsewhere because Putin wont like it ,

He's a bully ,all staged managed Q&A sessions where it's all your our hero standing up to NATO and preventing the invasion of Russia,

You need his permission to run against him and only if your one of his supporters ,he's as bad as some of those who went before him only difference is he is more shrewd how he goes about things.

It seems now turkey is moving to support Ukraine , after Azerbaijan this could cause more problems , Turkish drones proved very effective against the Armenians recently erdokan seems more than happy to play putin at his own games

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Caspian Report's videos on the Russian perspective yet. These are absolutely fascinating and provide an outstanding interpretation / explanation of the Russian posture:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE6rSljTwdU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwzliJF0-SI&t=0s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nosu9L8eFHE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJZbS3hwGuU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQT4unko248

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGafVj-wrmw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118183743#Comment_118183743

okay... point to me where I excuse their actions.

Just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean that I'm defending Russia.