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National Hurling League 2023 Discussion

  • 22-11-2022 8:45pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,458 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Suppose we'll start a thread with intercounty training returning this week. Normally the Leagues should kick off last weekend of January or First weekend of February

    League fixtures should be out very soon



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,458 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Expecting the fixtures this week sometime

    Think knockout stages are gone and it's only Top 1A vs Top 1B in the final



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 836 ✭✭✭lim4ev


    as far as limerick are concerned our first 2 matches are sat evening ones I like them ones



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Would have preferred an earlier time against Cork. We got the short straw in both codes too in terms of having more away than home games.

    Double header for Kildare/Wexford though which seems to have not happened in ages. And the Dubs at home in football which is great.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭randd1


    I predict it will be a bore-fest of challenge matches, with managers chopping and changing teams from game to game, and pundits reminding us that the league doesn't really matter as it's all about the championship (while simultaneously moaning that about the lack of exposure in hurling and the short length of the season) and that teams might be better off not winning the league (citing Waterford last year), as it gears up to the provincials.

    We could really do with a proper competition structure in place for hurling that makes use of the time it has and links the whole year together, this idea of basically one league after another does the sport no real service at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,458 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    In an ideal world one major competition combining both the league and Championship would be the way too go but nope not for the GAA

    They want to keep tradition alive and don't want rid of the provincials

    Maybe too much is been written in too Waterford winning the league and then imploding in the championship. The league might have not been the cause of it but seems to be opinion it was going too hard in the league



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,458 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Resources will decide the winners of the league



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,458 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    If you have a young squad and in a sort of 'rebuilding phase' the league would be a priority

    I'd fancy someone like Cork or Tipp too win next year's league as they have a young enough squad to build on and instant success in terms of Munsters and All Irelands doubtful



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Ya sounds about right. I think Cork need a trophy of any sort at this stage to shake off the growing choker vibes in the county.

    A fair few counties with a new manager to impress too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,175 ✭✭✭✭billyhead


    Limerick will try out new players so the league will just be testing ground. At least Cian Lynch will be back and see plenty of action to get him match fit and hardened.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I wouldn't mind Limerick at least winning a few games this year. Makes going a bit more pleasant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,201 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    Provincial round robins have downgraded the leagues in my opinion, all about peaking for those 4-5 games later in the year, i think there used to be a correlation between league and championship form but not really any more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Yep but 2023 is what it is so we might as well talk about that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,201 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    Yeah i expect that pattern to continue in 2023, strange comment from ya.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    Same format as last year. Top 2 in each Division 1 group qualify for the semi-finals. In all other divisions, 2nd have home advantage against 3rd in the semi-finals, with the winner taking on the 1st placed team in the final.

    Most of the debate will be again focussed on the two Division 1 groups format. Two divisions based on merit would bring more of an edge. Football counties have no guarantee of Division 1 status. The hurling league has removed the relegation jeopardy for the majority of the top counties. The GAA will stick with it however until supporters vote with their feet and decide to skip the snorefest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    We have already tried 2 divisions based on merit in a 2 division format and a 1A and 1B merit based format.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    It was tried badly with the top 4 in both divisions going to the quarter-finals.

    1A should see 2nd v 3rd in a semi-final, with the winner taking on 1st in the final. The 6th team should be relegated.

    1B should see 2nd v 3rd in a semi-final, with the winner taking on 1st in the final. 1B final winner promoted. The 6th team should be relegated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Tried an old fashioned div 1 and 2 as well with 8 teams. It was apparently too competitive and teams ranked 9 and 10 complained that they were at a disadvantage for championship.

    Also hurling goes through this annoying cycle of " team 11/12 learn nothing in the lower divisions" then we reformat and suddenly "team 11/12 learn nothing getting a hiding every week" and around and around we go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    Division 1A for league teams ranked 1 to 6 and Division 1B for league teams ranked 7 to 12 is the fair solution. Let everyone earn their place on merit. The national football league has thrived on this for years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    That would be fine with me.

    But it won't happen because teams ranked about 5 to 10 will kick up a fuss for all the reasons they had before.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    1 to 9 are probably fine with the current setup. It's 10 to 12 who would have to push for change.

    Money will be a key factor. If the current format is bringing in good crowds, the GAA will stick with it. If the lack of a competitive edge keeps supporters away, they'll be more inclined to bring in a bit of jeopardy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Have any of the many formats ever changed the numbers attending.

    Hasn't 2 x 6 been tried before in hurling or was that just football.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭PeggyShippen


    Think the system is fine as it is. The league is the league. I dont want a cut throat league . Its pointless with the round Robin which is excellent.

    Support 🇮🇱 Israel



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    It was tried in hurling alright. Counties were fighting tooth and nail to avoid 1B, even though 1B was proven to have provided enough competitive hurling before the championship, just as Division 2 in football also provides a high level of competitive football before the championship.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    No you misunderstood I mean we have tried the equal 1A and 1B before. We are basically back to a tried and failed system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭randd1


    The old 1A/1B system a few years ago worked well, certainly the best of what was on offer the past 20 years anyway. I'd bring it back, but with a more cut-throat change.

    Division 1A - Top team goes to League semi-final against Winner of 1B. Teams finishing 2nd and 3rd in 1A face each other in League semi-final. Bottom two teams in 1A are relegated to 1B for the next season.

    Division 1B - Top team goes to League semi-final against Winner of 1A. Teams finishing 2nd and 3rd in 1A face each other in promotion playoff, with the winner promoted to 1A. The bottom team is automatically relegated to Division 2 for the next season.

    A good change over of teams between 1A and 1B, serious competition for promotion/avoid relegation, 7 games max.

    Do the same for Division 2 and 3, but with the obvious caveat that the winners of those divisions are promoted to the next Division.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The top 2 teams in 1B walked it and only got 1 good match maybe 2 in the knockouts.

    I completely zoned out of during that time and didn't even watch Limericks games most of the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    1A with 1 to 6 and 1B with 7 to 12 is the best balance. 1B would contain 3 of the top 9 and 3 of the rest. A fair level.

    1B should have the same format as 2A. 2nd v 3rd in the semi-final. 1st v semi-final winner in the 1B final. 1B winner promoted. 6th team in 1A relegated. Just get on with game. No more tweaks required.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭castletownman


    During my walk with the dog earlier, I was thinking of a way to revitalise the league while also making the Provincial championships proper meaningful again.

    I would get rid of all the pre-season tournaments, with the only designated GAA action for January the various club championships. Re-structure the league so it starts in mid-February like now, but where the eventual Division One champions are guaranteed a place in the semi-finals of the championship proper (Div 1A vs. 1B table-toppers play-off in the final) The Division Two champions are guaranteed a spot in the knock-outs of the same championship. League placings will potentially have a bearing in the championship too....

    I would then revert the Munster and Leinster championships back to straight knock-out. Conduct the championship draws the Monday after the league final (why do we always have to do it so far in advance?), with a two-week break or whatever. The Leinster and Munster winners get the next two semi-final spots, and a back-door system to determine the last semi-finalist. If there is an odd number of teams remaining, have it seeded so the highest ranked remaining team on league position gets a bye. I know there are scenarios were a team could win the league and their province, but it should be possible to substitute one of the semi-final spots with either the league/provincial runner-up or again the highest finishing remaining team. I know the A/B split may prove complicated, but you just have to rank each team on number of points they gained in the group stage regardless of what side of the division they were on.

    I personally think it would be a load of fun, and would actually widen the club calendar a bit. Sure all you hear about this time of year is "it's only the league, we are gearing for championship".



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    God I can't wait till the league actually starts and we have matches to talk about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    Yeah, same. The Division 2 finals will be a week before the start of the McDonagh Cup. That's unfair. If they are determined to have the McDonagh final at the end of May, possibly Division 2 semi-finals should be scrapped so the league finals can be a week earlier?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,458 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    What happens if the Wexford vs Galway Round 1/Walsh Cup game ends in a draw ??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,201 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    Both teams get a point in the league, a penalty shootout will decide who wins the Walsh Cup.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,458 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 566 ✭✭✭C4000


    With the new structure for the football season, is there a danger that hurling will be overshadowed for much of the year? The football league is already looking sure to be highly competitive and well contested whereas there is a sense that the Hurling league is becoming less important. We'll then have a situation where only 6 Liam Mccarthy teams will be left in the championship by the end of May. In June there's due to be 38 football championship matches compared to 9 Hurling matches (including lower tier finals). Even the provincial round Robins, which is where Hurling has a big advantage, will be played on the same weekends as the provincial football finals and competing for coverage.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,458 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    The new Saturday Game will definitely help with the load

    Really wish they would find a way of extending the Hurling Championship. Crazy that potentially 2 Munster teams could only play 9 competitive games with there season done and dusted in bloody May.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    People have been predicting the overshadowing of hurling since Cúchulainn.

    People who are into hurling will pick any hurling game over football and vice versa. Doesn't really matter what clashes. Also hurling is full throttle from the opening of the championship where as the football is pretty crap until the Q/F stage. The new group stage I bet will be mostly predictable.

    Hurlings big failing is still the league. Football league is way better but football is lucky enough to have more teams at a similar level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,402 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    It does seem like the football league was never been so competitive.

    And the hurling league has never been less competitive.

    In the hurling, there is no worry of relegation for the bigger teams. And getting to the final is also not good as it's too close to the round robin, too many matches etc.

    I suppose the high number of new managers this year in hurling may add slightly to the interest levels. Cork, Tipp, Waterford, Kilkenny and Dublin all with new managers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭randd1


    Amalgamating the League & Championship would be the obvious choice long term. A 12 team round robin, everyone guaranteed 11 games, at least 5 at home. All knockout games (with the exception of the final) would be finish on the day.

    The Provincial Championships would be incorporated into the league phase of the Championship. Basically, there would be 2 mini-leagues within the main league, with the top 2 of the Munster league into the Munster Final, and the top 2 of the Leinster league into the Leinster Final. The Provincial winners go to the AI Semi-Finals, and the loser to the AI Quarter-Finals the week after.

    On the same weekend of the Munster/Leinster Finals, the 4 best ranked teams of the league who are not provincial finalists would go into a playoff to get to the QF. On the next weekend would see the QF's between the winners of the playoff and the loser of the Provincial Finals, and from there on close out the Championship as normal.

    Now the technical side of things (though still easy enough to follow).

    To add a bit of bite to things in the league phase, the league ranking would determine the pairings of every knockout round and home advantage for the qualifiers. For example in the qualifier round, if the four provincial finalists in Munster and Leinster had also occupied the rankings of 1-4 in the round robin, then teams 5-8 would progress to the Qualifiers with 5 playing 8, and 6 playing 7, with teams ranked 5 and 6 getting home advantage in the qualifier game.

    The same would apply to the Quarter-Finals. For example, if the Munster runner-up was ranked 2 in the round robin, and the Leinster runner-up was ranked 4 in the round robin, and teams ranked 6 and 8 came through the Qualifier, then the Munster runner up would face the team ranked 8 and the Leinster runner up would face the team ranked 6 in the Quarter Finals.

    The Semi-Finals would work on the usual principal that any team that was runner up in their Provincial Final who makes the AI Semi-Final would face the winner of the opposite province. However, if neither of the Provincial runners-up make the AI Semi-Final, then the AI Semi-Final pairings would then be based on the round robin rankings, with the Provincial Champion with the highest round robin ranking playing the team with the Semi-Finalist with the lowest round robin ranking.

    On the time-line side of things, run it along the lines of 3 weeks round robin, rest week, 3 weeks round robin, rest week, 3 weeks round robin, rest week, two weeks round robin, Munster/Leinster finals and Qualifiers, AI Quarter-Finals, rest week, AI Semi-Finals, rest week, AI Final. Set the AI Final for the 2nd Sunday in July (or the 3rd if there are 5 Sundays) and work back from there. There would only be 3 weeks between the Provincial Finals and the AI Semi-Finals. No team would play more than 3 weeks in a row except for those in the AI Quarter-Finals with 4, and even at that all 4 of them teams would be in the same boat.

    If that timeframe were applied this year, the Championship would start on the first week of March and finish on July the 16th, giving plenty of time to run off the county and club championship, a proper winter break, plenty of time for the Fitzgibbon Cup to be completed at the start of the year, and still time for some pre-season competition to try out lads.

    It runs in a timely manner, the Provincials still play a role, the league rankings matter throughout, and it's a structure that can be applied at the lower levels too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Sounds like the kinda American style shte the rugby are adopting now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    The Wexford GAA Commemoration Jersey celebrates the county’s first All-Ireland success, 130 years ago. Selskar Young Ireland’s represented Wexford in the 1893 All-Ireland football final. The Selskar Young Ireland’s crest is featured on the front and back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭castletownman


    And it was worn by the footballers last week, which was more fitting given it's commemorating a football AI win.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The white kit reminds me of the old Irish International Rules kits.

    Would love that to be the Limerick keepers kit this season instead of the horrible cyan crap we got. Outside of it being ugly I hate this generic soccer style keepers kits creeping into GAA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭YabaDabaDooley


    So who do posters fancy for the league this year? I see Davy has gone with a strong looking Waterford team first game out v Dublin with lots of strength on the bench.

    I think Cork will look to have a good league too.

    And Galway under Henry will improve also.

    Kilkenny always treat the league with respect so can never be ruled out.

    How will Kiely and Limerick priortise the league?

    Are the Banner a contender?

    I see Tipp favoured in some quarters this year. Not for me.

    Dublin are rebuilding so will take time under Michael O Donoghue i suspect.

    Wexford may give the league a rattle. Still missing a lethal forward or two i feel.

    Hard to call but i tip Galway to win the league.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,458 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Going to be an interesting league and possibility of so many winners from 1A and 1B

    Feel it could be someone like Cork, Clare or Galway. All in which need a trophy

    Last year was a bit of a freak in terms of some teams flying in the league then imploding in the Championship. While some had terrible leagues but great championships



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭YabaDabaDooley


    Yea should be interesting alright. I do expect Waterford to beat us tomorrow. I see the bookies have ye at 3/10.

    Looking forward to the two games on tv today. First up Wexford v Galway which doubles up as the Walsh Cup final.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I think practically everyone except Limerick could do with a trophy. It seems to either be the first year or a big year for every manager bar Kiely too.

    If Galway go all in I think they will do it. I think they were much better last year than they get credit for because Clare and Kk were the big stories.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭YabaDabaDooley


    15 minute delay for Wexford v Galway game. Fire safety concern apparently. All is ok though and given the go ahead for 17.15



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