Sister got bullied out of her accommodation, what can we do?

ifeelabreeze

I realise this is probably a losing battle and at this point she has already essentially moved out.

She's in college, moved into a place with 2 girls from her old college course, it's been nothing but agro.

The two are friends from home so its 2v1.

There's drug use.

One tried to move in her sister, without telling my sister. When my sister kicked up about this they started the abuse, roaring shouting, threatening etc. Then a boyfriend had the bright idea to move in instead and give his place to his girlfriends sister. And the other friend also moved in her boyfriend.

Earlier this week she confronted them on this and said there should only be 3 tenants.

Mentioned about paying towards electricity too and then they kicked off (seemingly their splitting their rent with the boyfriends).

Last night it escalated, she arrived back to her housemates and their boyfriends, all pretty drunk. The 2 girls started bullying her, she ran into her room and locked the door (there's a short hallway with an ensuite, she locked that door and her bedroom door).

Then they started kicking the door, saying they were going to drag her out by her hair, wanting to kick her head in etc - In fairness one of the boyfriends tried to pull them away.

My sister got a couple of recordings, no faces, just voices and no names called (can't tell it's directed at her) - so that's useless.

She informed the landlord - he was f*cking useless, just talked about her liability for the rental agreement, and said he'd 'have a talk with the tenants'. Wouldn't mind - she got them the house as he was my brothers landlord last year, seemed pleasant, she's the primary, she's the contact for electricity and all of that.

She's informed the college, they want her to file a report, not entirely sure what that does, if anything, but she's going to do it regardless. They even suggested emergency accommodation.

As far as we can see her best option is to move out, and get in the most unsuitable individual possible - it's a private letting, so it doesn't have to be a college student, seemingly.

Not sure if there's much more that can be done.

My parents went in with her this evening, got nothing but cheek and abuse, again. Talking about how it's her fault for being a 'stuck up b*tch' - for not wanting to have the boyfriends move in.

She actually got a voice recording of one girl calling her boyfriend by name and saying he's moving in, and then said boyfriend saying he's moving in regardless.

All they wanted to know was - what's happening, is she moving out?.. aka can they move the sister back in.

Any advice? I realise moving out and forgetting about it is probably best, but doesn't seem fair for the abuse/threats she's received, so frankly we want to shaft them as best we can.

The DayDream

Get back onto the landlord and tell him you either tell those girls to get out or you'll be stuck with them and the 2 boyfriends and no one else will want to live in that situation. Tell the landlord they think they can have their BFs live there without contributing anything to the electric and without splitting the rent 5 ways, and that is not on, and no other tenant he could get in would ever agree to that. Tell him you'll be filing a report over the threats and that he can either kick them out and allow your daughter to find new housemates or he can try and chase you after you leave and cancel the electric too.

Who is on the rental agreement? Is the tenancy registered? If not, she can just leave he has no way to hold her liable for any rent.

HildaOgdenx

Mod Note - OP I have moved your thread to the Accommodation & Property forum as it is probably more suitable to it. 

Local charter now applies. 

Hilda

ifeelabreeze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119855738#Comment_119855738

All that was said to him, he just said 'sure look it's hard to prove'.

Who would we file the report with, the guards?

The thing is my sister could easily find others, she has friends stuck in digs and these two demons living in a prime location.

My sister has paid a deposit and 1 months rent which is up on €1000.

They're all on the agreement unfortunately, with my sister being the primary contact and I just checked the tenancy is registered.

Deeec

I think your sister needs to move away from this situation quick for her safety and mental health. There is no point contacting the landlord as all he wants is his rent paid. It's clear he doesn't care how many is living in the house. Unfortunately I wouldn't go the route of complaining to the college either. - I don't think she will achieve anything but grief if she does this. Presumably she still has to attend the same lectures as these girls.

Hopefully in moving she will get decent housemates. I think she just needs to chalk this down as a bad experience and move on.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119855738#Comment_119855738

TBF, disputes between tenants are not the LLs problem to solve, all he will be interested in is the rent being paid. If no other tenant would be interested, the current tenants are likely joint and severely liable for the rent so even if the op’s sister moves out, the other two would have to stump up the rent in its entirety.

TheadoreT

I think it's about compromise. In a perfect world they'd all keep to the tenants agreement but rent prices for students is pretty damn scary these days. If your sister can afford(or your parents are paying i assume) then it's a privileged position and she shouldn't forget that. Not everyone is in that boat so you can see why the other girls are looking to make it cheaper.

Obviously their reactions were miles out of line, but these sort of reactions usually come from a hurt place. They may think your sister doesn't understand its probably more about surviving in an insane rental market for them(hence the stuck up comment).

So as I say its about compromise, if your sister was softer on the boyfriends being there I'm sure they'd negotiate a split bills for everyone. I don't think people are monsters in general, these conflicts usually come from both parties ignoring each others issues.

Or just move out, looking to "shaft" them is a terrible idea.

Xterminator

not the landlords problem. hes not useless, he is just not a referee.

you can drop the landlord a line and explain your side of what's going on, if you think there is any benefit to that. given she has left already the only thing she can do now is protect herself. preserve any messages. if her name is on the bills she needs to remove her name asap. IE get a final reading and close the accounts. if she needs to go back over to collect belongings. im sure you can accompany her. She needs to get released from the rental agreement, a legal contract, and that usually has penalties for breaking an agreement - Ts&C's of lease apply here.

other than that, what would you like? there is no remedy for bad behavior. im sure you head the saying life isnt fair. this falls under that category.

IMO your sister shouldn't be the one enforcing any rental agreement. As a tenant she should have just passed the information to LL. When she started the 'confrontation' - your words, the result was a predictable chain of events. She not responsible for the bad behavior of the roommates, that's on them. She did pour oil on the fire however.

Claw Hammer

Your sister should lreport the threats to the Garda, then lock out the flatmates and their boyfriends and get in new flatmates.

spaceHopper

Her LL is not a social worker, the only way this should affect him is, is the place minded and is the rent paid.

So she should ring them and say the situation has to change it can't stay the same. He has grounds to end the tenancy for antisocial behavior. All the forms are on the RTB side.

So 3 things can happen, 1) she stays, they go. 2) she goes, they stay. 3) they all go, which does the LL want. Let them know she can have them replaced in matter of days. This will cost her as they will not pay any outstanding bill or rent, or she could lose the deposit.

Mrs OBumble

The LL has no evidence of ASB.

He cannot end the tenancy because of handbags at dawn.

amdublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119857507#Comment_119857507

Well for a start she should not do this.

Seriously though OP, sounds like a horrific experience. Why do you and your family want to elongate any interactions whatsoever with these awful people?? Your sister needs to find a new home to live in and stay well clear of these girls

ifeelabreeze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858127#Comment_119858127

We won't be doing this.

Honestly at this point we want them to face some sort of repercussions, my mother was up all night consoling my crying sister as a result of how these two girls reacted.

My sister is by no means an angel, but even when my parents went in to remove her stuff last night, they also got the abuse 'oh you're hiding behind you're mother now', 'jesus that's a bit sad isn't it' etc.

Moving out and letting their friend(s) move in makes it feel like they've won and got their way, we don't want that.

My sister is out of harms way, she's moved back home even though that means hours of commuting, but it's better than living there.

amdublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858148#Comment_119858148

So arguing with them more/more anguish/more interaction with them will make you all feel better?

Not sure what to say to you.... If it was me I would be having nothing more to do with them. Would not go down to their level.

What is that saying??? "Never wrestle with a pig. You just get dirty and the pig enjoys it."

ifeelabreeze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119856690#Comment_119856690

Their parents are paying, this just gives them more pocket money and their boyfriends living with them, they're definitely not feeling the pinch.

I doubt my sister feels privileged in that situation.

I'll just say, take my word for it their, they're not coming from a place of hurt, they're causing it. Even when my mother confronted them on it, one apologised for her drunken behaviour, but the other doubled down and even started abusing my mother.

Thankfully my sister has changed courses so she won't have to deal with them going forward.

amdublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858165#Comment_119858165

Glad your sister has changed course. And is home safe. Sorry about the big commute. Awful experience and I hope she can move on from this and meet nice new friends

ifeelabreeze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858160#Comment_119858160

I think it's obvious opinion to have as an outsider looking in, but when it's your sister coming home covered in tears and a mascara smeared face, objectivity goes out the window.

It would give me great satisfaction knowing they didn't get their way, as it stands they've bullied my sister out of the accommodation she sorted for them, their boyfriends live there hassle free and they now get to decide on their new and improved roommate.

This is obviously going nowhere but there won't be the turning of any cheek.

Ultimately that's what's important - she's safe and able to move forward..

storker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858181#Comment_119858181

I agree with you totally but the others are probably right. If it's any comfoirt, when people behave like this it's rarely a one-off, they're just entitled, inconsiderate pieces of s**t, and therein lie the seeds of their own destruction. People like that make their own karma, and it's always bad. One day it'll bite them hard.

DFB-D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858181#Comment_119858181

If it's any consolation, this is probably as good as their life gets.

Personally I would have left fish all around the place, but a more mature option might be seek the return of the deposit through the district court, which may get their parents involved and you can highlight all the behaviour.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858181#Comment_119858181

Just how do you think this ends? A big moment of revelation where they realise the error of their ways and apologise to your sister with tears in their eyes? A glorious moment where the police, landlord and the local media arrive all at the same time to escort them from the building in shame?

They are obviously a couple of skanks, they will continue to be a couple of skanks, there is no victory in this for your sister no matter what she does.

And with respect, you are bulling for revenge and saying that they shouldn't get away with this, but then you aren't the one who "really" has to deal with it any more than I am. Its your sister who would have to suffer through any prolonged tenancy battle, not you.

Make sure your sister's name is taken off any bills, immediately.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858181#Comment_119858181

Renting with others can be problematic. What your sister is going through isn't uncommon at all. Most people who rented at some stage have had a housemate from hell. Its another of lifes experiences for your sister. There is no gaurantee that there wont be disagreements with her new flatmates either - thats part of renting.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058271154/sister-got-bullied-out-of-her-accommodation-what-can-we-do

Wow and these brats are "college" students. Not very bright, wonder what course they attend.

The only solution for your sister is moving out. She is lucky she has a good sibling and set of parents who jumped to help. Some wouldn't have her luck. She needs to leave the place.

pauly58

We had similar things happen when our son's were at college : drug taking, hogging the freezer section, general unpleasantness. I'm afraid it comes with sharing with people you don't know.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858576#Comment_119858576

Sometimes it does.

But sometimes renting with people you already know is worse: a household disagreement costs you a friendship.

Either way, it's good for building resilience.

not the landlords problem. hes not useless, he is just not a referee.

I would have thought any Landlord would be interested or at least concerned if 2/3 extra people were moving into the house, (2 boyfriends, 1 sister) without being on the lease.

More people = more damage, more wear and tear?

If they let that pass, where does the line on "guests" get drawn?

just_a_gurl

your only option really would be to get the landlord on side, i.e. if he/she agrees that he/she only wants "X" amount of people in the accommodation because of space/rooms etc. Technically aren't the boyfriend's licensees of the other 2...my understanding is that the landlord should have been informed of this prior to them moving in. The landlord can't really object unless he/she can specify that the property is clearly only designed for 3 people & that 5 would be overcrowding. Dunno how that would work out...BUT you've already said the LL is "useless".

Was it a fixed term lease??

What are the chances that your sister would go to the Gardai & make a statement re being the victim of anti-social behaviour/ intimidation & harassment??

Anti social behaviour is very difficult to prove & really would need to be ongoing & well documented with evidence but I believe it is the only instance really where the landlord is obliged to act. And technically, if the LL does speak to them & let's say he issues them a warning about it then he's prob covered as having fulfilled his obligations - personal disputes between tenants is not a LL's problem.

Just be careful...if your sister is in a fixed term lease & you guys go ahead & get in "in the most unsuitable individual possible", that person is technically sub-letting from your sister & lets say this individual decides to stop paying...well, your sister, if her name is still on the lease might end up owing rent arrears if the LL wanted to be a stickler on it.

Best bet is to try & negotiate with the landlord & agree with him/her that your sister's name will be removed from the lease if she gets someone else in to take her room instead...and get that in writing...

dartboardio

Those girls she's living with sound like scumbags, and scumbags don't care ' what's not fair'

Your sister should move out and move on ASAP, and take it as a lesson learned, to get to know people before living with them

Daisy78

Deeec’s point above is spot on. No guarantee’s when it comes to renting or more specifically flatsharing. I’ve had good and bad experiences both with strangers and with people I already knew. You would like to think that sharing with friends will be a positive experience but there is a lot of truth in the saying if you want to know me, come live with me. I know you feel aggrieved but there is nothing you can do about it apart from draw a line under it and move on. They sound toxic and will be somebody else’s problem now. I’d focus on making sure your sister is okay and help her find alternative accommodation so she doesn’t have to commute. And look in a way it is a lesson learnt, if there is even a sniff of this type of nonsense in another flatshare she might be more inclined to move on than tolerate such bad behavior. I stayed far too long in places I should have moved on from down through the years, if I had that time back again I would have packed my bags a lot sooner at the first sign of trouble. Life is too short to have to put up with unhappy living arrangements.

20Wheel

"and get in the most unsuitable individual possible".

"frankly we want to shaft them as best we can."

and thats why landlords don't listen.

any drama just get them all out. start over.