Mary Lou McDonald's interviews today

walterking

I was listening to Mary Lou McDonald on Newstalk and she came across rather narky.

Seems gangland crime is far more serious than bombing men women and children into smithereens in that she claims she did not know of Johnathan Dowdall's long association with crime in the inner city and would not have let him into the party, yet has no issue with those who made bombs that killed many people in Northern Ireland and Britain.

Frankly, I'd prefer to be mugged than to be blown to death

She then got extremely touchy when asked about their refusal to call southern Ireland the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland by its official name, Northern Ireland saying that people should not get heated about some minor side show - if its such a minor sideshow why can't sf state that there are 2 parts to the island - Northern Ireland (part of the UK) and the Republic of Ireland.

She also claimed that she did not instruct SF members to talk to shane ross - well that's true as it's the inner circle in Belfast that dictate what you can or cannot say.

She'll be on RTE next - but I suspect that will be rather mooted affair due to her ongoing defamation action against them for suggesting that sf were holding back information about Maria Cahill

Not a good interview at all

kippy

Standard Interview by a politician really.

Played it safe, never really answered anything asked.

FrancieBrady

Thought she did very well there on RTE with an interviewer determined to stay in the past.

Strazdas

The RTE one wasn't that muted. He threw lots of stuff at her from the Shane Ross book (about her personal finances, legal actions etc).

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119840761#Comment_119840761

I came in to say the opposite. I thought she said nothing new and just trotted out the same old lines that satisfy the party faithful. No explanation on how to fund anything except by borrowing and with no limits set.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119840777#Comment_119840777

The interviewer didn't exactly probe her on that. He was more interested in her suing, the 'RA and her house. As she said herself at one point...'hey, we had an Ard Fheis yesterday' 😁😁

walterking

It was her comments that people with a history of bombing infrastructure and innocent people were fine as members of sf, but someone (dowdall) who at the time of his departure from sf had not been accused of murder, was not welcome.

The reason "it was OK because we were in a war". Funny I don't remember anyone other than the IRA calling it a war.

Viscount Aggro

I thought SF were taking the "weapon" out of politics?

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119840925#Comment_119840925

I'm fairly certainly plenty of catholics who were being murdered by the British armed forces felt it was a war too.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119840925#Comment_119840925

Her answer about Collins really should silence into embarrassment those who choose good terrorists over bad ones.

If you are going to honour one set of revolutionaries/freedom fighters/terrorists/killers(whatever you want to call them) then you can't really seriously think you have any credibility criticising those who honour another set.

Some really have to come to terms with history and listen to what is being said...'we really really do not want to go back there' etc.

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119840972#Comment_119840972

I don't think any of those involved are senior members of a political party.

That's the problem. Sinn fein have no issue with people involved in murder in northern Ireland and Britain being a member of their party.

That will always be a problem

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119842224#Comment_119842224

Don't agree.

There were people who were involved in killing and 'terrorism' in the Dail well into the 60's. Ande for decades before it functioned as well.

25 years after the GFA and more and more people have no issues that some of SF were involved in a conflict/war and did what they promised they would do...get involved in politics.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058270661/mary-lou-mcdonalds-interviews-today

"She then got extremely touchy when asked about their refusal to call southern Ireland the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland by its official name, Northern Ireland saying that people should not get heated about some minor side show - if its such a minor sideshow why can't sf state that there are 2 parts to the island - Northern Ireland (part of the UK) and the Republic of Ireland."

This IS a serious issue. Are you sure that this is the case? It would imply that SF TDs elected in our Republic do not recognise the state? Surely not, please elaborate.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119842420#Comment_119842420

I've yet to hear a SF TD refer to the Republic of Ireland or Northern Ireland. I've always interpreted it as a suggestion of a refusal to recognise those political entities.

Gusser09

She done really well today. Some media outlets and journalists only seem interested in the past and are intent on trying to keep SF out of power.

The same journalists also only see 1 side to the troubles. Granted what the IRA done at times was horrific but what the unionists imposed on the Nationalists was state sponsored. Irish indo and rte wont acknowledge that though.

Shes right. There is no comparison to gangland crime and the struggles up north.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119840996#Comment_119840996

It is not history when many of the victims and immediate relatives of the victims are still around.

Try telling Austin Stack that his father's murder is history, try telling Mairia Cahill it is ok to commemorate her rape, because it is history.

It really is that simple.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119842498#Comment_119842498

Gangland crime is only in the ha'penny place compared to bombing women and children the way that the IRA did, or disappearing young mothers, killing Gardai, blowing up innocent people, and leaving bombs in pubs, blowing up old men marching etc.

I mean, is there a gangland crime even comparable to what the PIRA did to Jean McConville or blowing up a young boy in a boat?

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119842498#Comment_119842498

History? A friend of mines father was murdered by the IRA in Derry.

His crime? He was a Protestant that had a business and would not pay protection money.

Not history to my friend. He lives with the consequences of sinn fein's "good criminal" action every day of his life.

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119843780#Comment_119843780

I have relatives killed by the British army here in Ireland. i narrowly escaped the Dublin bombings, organised by the British army, by less than five minutes. Lots of us have to live with the consequences of the terrorism of the British army in Ireland.

I assume, by your logic, that members of the political parties that supported the British army, i.e. the Conservative and Labour parties, should be banned from office too?

In any event, i thought the whole purpose of the GFA was to allow people to lay down their arms and pursue their aims by political means. Or is it only certain political aims that can be advanced now?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119843223#Comment_119843223

Yeh, and Collins etc all engaged in killing and terror to affect the goals.

Celebrate one and then climb onto the high moral ground when the other is. Which was the point.

Not a leg to stand on frankly.

PaulieC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119842498#Comment_119842498

are the Unionists running for elections in this country ?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119843819#Comment_119843819

Well there is more hypocrisy on that one TBH. Unionists are welcomed into the 'fold' here by some who are exclusionary about others, the party leader of one Unionist party STILL associated and taking advice from the LLC (who made threats last week to resume violence) was given a standing ovation at FG party conference.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119842432#Comment_119842432

We'll have to keep an eye and ear on this. Can Francie here elaborate? Surely this can't be true?

Sam Russell

Actually, the name of this part of the world is Ireland.

Not Southern Ireland, nor Republic of Ireland, nor the Free State, nor the Twenty six Counties. Not even Eire, unless you are a Gaeilgeoir.

It is regrettable that the Good Friday Agreement, also known as The Belfast Agreement, did not define the terms that refer to itself, the country of Ireland, the partitioned bit known as Northern Ireland, and the bit of the United Kingdom that did not include Northern Ireland as Great Britain, or if it included that bit then it was to be known as the United Kingdom.

Oh how easy it would be to have a conversation with an Ulsterman*, or a West of Ireland man*, or even those from Southern counties without having to be careful of the geographic niceties (or nastiness - depending).

*The term Ulsterman, and West of Ireland man includes women, and those who prefer to be viewed otherwise.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845488#Comment_119845488

I use all the names of the partitioned bit in a kind of rotation. The North, Northern Ireland, NI, the 6 counties etc. But never 'Ulster,' as it isn't Ulster.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845501#Comment_119845501

Try telling that to a DUP person. In particular what the U stands for, or for that matter what D stands for.

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119844581#Comment_119844581

Elected sinn fein officials will never call Northern Ireland by the name "Northern Ireland" and likewise they will never refer to the Republic of Ireland as "Ireland" or "Republic of Ireland". If they use the word "Ireland" it will always be in the context of the combined countries of Ireland and Northern Ireland

May lou mcdonald says it is petty bringing this up. I say its petty refusing to call two distinct jurisdictions by their correct names.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845565#Comment_119845565

I think whats petty is making a thread on boards to moan about SF not using the correct terminology re: northern ireland

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845565#Comment_119845565

Party who reject partition refuse to partition the island in terminology shocker. 🙄

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119843804#Comment_119843804

I don't celebrate any of them.

The difference, which you completely ignored, is that Kitty Kiernan isn't sitting here today suffering. Jean McConville's children are here with us. Paul Quinn's mother is living among us. Austin Stack still suffers from his dad's death and Mairia Cahill still bears the scars of what the PIRA and SF did to her. Quite a difference.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846099#Comment_119846099

Conveinient.

They were sitting through the first 50 years of the state when the FF FG parties were celebrating them.

Don't start being coy. You'll be telling us next that Nazi's can now begin celebrating their dead because everyone affected is dead.

Fact is, people used killing and 'terrorism' on all sides on this island many times. Selectively picking some of them to celebrate while denying others is hypocrisy and grubby political grandstanding.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845565#Comment_119845565

You are absolutely correct.

All this talk from SF about reaching out to everyone, and MON being FM for all and they don't even have the decency to call the place by its real name.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846117#Comment_119846117

There you go, Godwin's law, well you are a fool to use it, because it is coming straight back at you.

Actually, MLMD has told us that there is no comparison between deaths in a "conflict" and gangland violence, so she is the one saying that the Nazi Holocaust isn't as bad as one criminal lowlife fighting with another criminal lowlife.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846129#Comment_119846129

I'm old enough to remember when saying Godwin's Law was edgy. Jesus! 🙄

No idea what your second point means. Sounds ranty though.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846150#Comment_119846150

MLMD has told us that deaths in a conflict are not as serious as gangland crime. Now, unless she is portraying her conflict as somewhat more glorified than other conflicts, not only is she saying that gangland crime is worse than the Holocaust, she is also saying that the gangland crime in Ireland is worse than Putin invading Ukraine.

She really didn't think through her horrific justification of the sins of the PIRA.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846199#Comment_119846199

Misquotinmg already.

Where did she say it 'was not as serious'?

“I think if we’re going to talk about things that happened in the course of the conflict, that’s one thing. That’s one discussion,” she told Newstalk’s On the Record with Gavan Reilly.

“As somebody who represents the North Inner City from Dublin, and who has seen and sees at first hand the damage, the corrosive damage that so-called gangland has caused to communities, there is absolutely no comparison,” she said.

Ms McDonald said former UK prime minister Margaret Thatcher coined the phrase “crime is crime”.

“Margaret Thatcher coined that phrase so if you’re of that mind, you’re of that mind,” Ms McDonald said.

“The things that happened in the course of a very long political conflict – which thank God is now long over, we’ve had 25 years of peace – there is no comparison between that and the kind of challenge, and it is an ongoing challenge, to our society between this and the so-called gangland crime epidemic poses.

“I say that as somebody who represents fine communities, the best of people, for whom this is a daily scourge.”

Clearly she was referencing the 'ongoing' nature of gangland crime.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846266#Comment_119846266

The political conflict between Russia and Ukraine has lasted for 31 years since Ukraine became independent, so as MLMD says, "the things that happened in the course of a very long political conflict.....there is no comparison between that and the kind of challenge, and it is an ongoing challenge, to our society between this and the so-called gangland crime epidemic poses."

So pretty much conclusive what I said. She sees criminal lowlifes fighting with other criminal lowlifes as worse than Russia invading Ukraine.

Luxembourgo

I think she is a poor cliched speaker. Well coached but just soundbites. No facts no figures just vagueness

"I was talking to a man who....."

Still remember her mansplaining comment from the last debates, incredibly cringe worthy

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846362#Comment_119846362

They are different challenges blanch.

Simple point.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846391#Comment_119846391

Oh, is this the new defence of MLMD? She meant they are different challenges?

The lengths you go to defend her are incredible.

She said there was no comparison between murders, beatings, rapes etc. in a very long political conflict to the same things in gangland violence, thereby saying that the Hutch/Kinahan feud was more serious than Russia invading Ukraine. Pretty simple to understand.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846452#Comment_119846452

I'm not defending her, I'm calling out your misquote.

Where did she say 'it was not as serious'? Or that the Hutch Kinahin feud was 'more serious' than Russia invading Ukraine?

Jesus, utterly ridiclous spinning.

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845664#Comment_119845664

Not sure if you read the first post, but it was about a car crash of an interview where she insinuated that those who blew innocent men women and children to bits in northern Ireland and Britain were not of the same ilk as a north inner city criminal.

Basically, they were "good criminals" and therefore were welcome to be part of sinn fein.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846506#Comment_119846506

Here is what she said quoted.

“I think if we’re going to talk about things that happened in the course of the conflict, that’s one thing. That’s one discussion,” she told Newstalk’s On the Record with Gavan Reilly.

“As somebody who represents the North Inner City from Dublin, and who has seen and sees at first hand the damage, the corrosive damage that so-called gangland has caused to communities, there is absolutely no comparison,” she said.

Ms McDonald said former UK prime minister Margaret Thatcher coined the phrase “crime is crime”.

“Margaret Thatcher coined that phrase so if you’re of that mind, you’re of that mind,” Ms McDonald said.

“The things that happened in the course of a very long political conflict – which thank God is now long over, we’ve had 25 years of peace – there is no comparison between that and the kind of challenge, and it is an ongoing challenge, to our society between this and the so-called gangland crime epidemic poses.

“I say that as somebody who represents fine communities, the best of people, for whom this is a daily scourge.”

All wars/conflict have their terrible atrocities and wrongs. Would you liken the protagonists in those wars/conflicts to 'gangland crimminals'?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846526#Comment_119846526

Let me think, the beating of Paul Quinn to death, an atrocity committed by the PIRA is far worse than any gangland violence.

Maybe you and MLMD are correct, if you are saying that the PIRA were far worse than any gangland criminals.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846475#Comment_119846475

Maybe she thinks that you need to be a really bad psychopathic criminal to join SF. The common or garden gangland criminal just simply won't cut it, when you can get people willing to watch while they bomb a kid in a boat to death, or who think nothing of abusing the welcome of a safe house by raping the young boys living there.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849421#Comment_119849421

So you cannot point to where she said 'it was not as serious' and admit you were spinning.

Stop spinning what she said, leave that to belligerent Unionists like Bryson etc.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849474#Comment_119849474

Who are you trying to fool with this nonsense?

She said there was no comparison implying that those involved in gangland crime are not welcome in SF, but those who are happy to beat every bone in Paul Quinn's body are welcome, and that whatever psychopath sat and watched while he blew a kid up in a boat is also welcome.

If you are trying to pretend she said something else, it is a pretty sad state of affairs.

FrancieBrady

Just point to where she said what you claimed?

She was clearly talking about the challenges of dealing with gangland crime and a conflict that reached a negotiated settlement and peace that has lasted 25 years as far as the IRA are concerned.

The IRA as a movement was not involved in Quinn's murder. We know this from the authorities vested with monitoring.

Good loser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846388#Comment_119846388

Yeah she was all that on The Week in Politics on Sunday. You have her well measured. She keeps prolonging and extending her sentences/replies 'Let me say this' for instance is a completely superfluous phrase. When pressed (lightly) on how SF were to pay for their housing she had 'the Govt says money is no object to their housing plan' The point there of course is the Govt may have THEIR housing plan covered - but the SF plan is for MUCH MORE housing.

blanch152

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/crime/poppy-day-bomb-35th-anniversary-victim-appeals-for-information-on-ira-killers-who-struck-enniskillen-in-1987-3909192

It was interesting in the discussion yesterday on MLMD's speech that nobody referenced the significance of the date - the 35th anniversary of one of the most hideous PIRA bombings, when they tried to blow up a bunch of old men walking in a parade, and some spectators.

No comparison with gangland violence is right, the PIRA were far worse.

It goes without saying that the lack of sensitivity to the anniversaries of such events shows how far reconciliation has to travel. It can start with people coming forward to admit their involvement in atrocities such as this and do the time for the crime.

13 children among the injured.

Everyone should watch the contemporary BBC News report linked in the news article. No warning. Civilians.

Horrific, we should never forget what was done that day.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846099#Comment_119846099

What about Aidan Mcenespies family who was shot dead by the British state? Or the victims of the bloody sunday massacre by the British state? We could go on forever.

It doesn't sit well with some but there was a cause in the North whereas gangland crime is purely about profit and gouging. The North was a struggle to achieve civil rights for nationalists and to remove british rule due to the conditions and apartheid inflicted on Catholics.

Of course innocent civilians shouldn't have been targeted and that is atrocious and unfortunate. it was a war in the North though. Like the struggle down south in the early 20th century.