Will London Burn Tonight?

SafeSurfer

Protests are planned today in London and throughout the UK over the police shooting of unarmed black man Chris Kaba on 5th September.

Kaba, who had just been released from prison on a firearms charge was involved in a high speed chase with police, in a car related to a firearms incident, prior to the shooting.

The last time a similarly high profile shooting took place was in 2011 after the police shooting of another black man, Mark Duggan. In the wake of Duggan’s shooting by police, initially peaceful protests escalated to 5 nights of rioting during which many buildings in London were burned, resulting in £200 million in damages and 5 deaths.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots

With the eyes of the world on London will the Kaba protests escalate to violence in the run up to the funeral of Queen Elizabeth II?

Jim_Hodge

No.

Sweet Talkin Romeo

yes

JeffKenna

Maybe

Boggles

Thought I loaded up the Daily Mail by accident.

StrawbsM

I hope not.

ceadaoin.

Probably not. I lived in London during the 2011 riots , and it was kind of scary at the time, but in hindsight, not really. A lot of the fear was based on rumours and hysteria. I doubt they will let something similar happen again during the Queen's funeral/mourning period.

Shank Williams

You need a heatwave for stuff like this to properly boil over so no

Andrea B.

Too many specialist military units, such as the the Royal Company of Archers down in London this weekend.

Mad to try anything with these around.

Ninthlife

Londons Burning - now that was a good show back in the day

EOQRTL

Here's an idea, don't drive away from the police at high speed in a car that was involved in a firearms incident and then expect them to throw flowers at you when they apprehend you. The guy Kaba seemed like a right piece of sh1t and is no loss to society. The police need to go in hard on any protests tonight not like the softly softly approach works on these thugs anyway.

AMKC

No. It happened for different reasons as well as the shooting you mentioned in 2011 in also happened because of the economic downturn of the time and there was a record number of people unemployed but now in the UK there is more jobs than there is people to be employed so no everyone is too busy trying to get through the cost of living crisis and burning buildings will not help that it would only make it worse.

gmisk

Given this guy's actions and his history... nope

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119629636#Comment_119629636

I don’t follow your logic. Surely burning buildings during an economic downturn in 2011 would also have made things worse.

As for people being too busy to riot. Hundreds of thousands if not millions are queuing for 24 hours to see a coffin.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119629633#Comment_119629633

Probably the worst thing for the police to do would be to come in heavy handed.

Every news channel in the world is there and after 10 days of choreographed pageantry, police beating black protesters before the funeral of the white queen would become the story that many seem to crave.

thugtomas

The King and The Queen Consort will remain at Balmoral this evening and will return to London tomorrow.

EOQRTL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119629658#Comment_119629658

The police should never do things for political reasons, they are there to keep the peace and stop these thugs causing millions of pounds worth of damage. People's skin colour shouldn't matter in the slightest and if Kaba was white this wouldn't even be making the news.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119629618#Comment_119629618

I grew up watching the rioters of the 80s pass by my window. I was just a kid but I remember feeling nervous and willing them to pass my house and get to the high street just off my road as quickly as possible.

In 1995 I was on the bus coming through Brixton on the evening that the riot started. Atmosphere on the bus was pretty tense. Kept my head down and my ears open. Got the same bus back to work the next morning and the bus driver had to drive around burnt out cars.

The one time I felt very afraid was when it was just me and my baby daughter in our ground floor flat. All of a sudden it got really quiet outside. The phrase “you could cut the atmosphere with a knife” is the only way to describe it. I knew something was wrong and within 10 minutes all hell had broken loose. I double checked all the windows and doors and sat it the bedroom watching my daughter. It was over in a few hours.

I was in Ireland by the time the 2011 riots came around. Had sky news on and as they moved from one riot location to the next I was saying to my now husband “The house I grew up in is just around the corner from that greggs on fire, that’s where I went to school, I worked just up from those shops they’re looting, I’d always go here shopping”. 4 different locations and he thought it was mental. Heartbreaking watching House of Reeves in Croydon burn down.

Thelonious Monk

I was living in Brixton during the last one, they looted the Curry's nearby and smashed up my local. I walked home from pub oblivious to it all somehow on the Sunday night. Next morning the tube station was closed and there was smoke everywhere in Brixton high st. We were even sent home from work early. Good times. In Hackney now which has some naughty estates too so fingers crossed it's quiet.

Can't imagine it kicking off over this but the "feds" would be in serious trouble bruv with all the extra work on for them this weekend, every world leader in town.

Montage of Feck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119629621#Comment_119629621

They could literally go medieval on those protesters asses!

AllForIt

They are holding the protest THIS weekend? Really! Eh, do they not think the media's attention will be focused elsewhere....

Monday would have been a better choice as I believe it's a bank holiday over there with not much happening lol

Danzy

A violent drug dealer is dead, after he tried to run down a police officer.

Amazingly a Labour MPz attended protests about it! Though she is from the very loony wing of Labour.

His gang friends might use it as an excuse to loot shops like the time gang boss Mark Duggan was killed.

Loafing Oaf

in a word

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119629979#Comment_119629979

Is this Diane Abbot who labeled the shooting of BLM activist Sasha Johnson at a house party a racially motivated attack? The trial of the 4 black youths accused of involvement in the shooting collapsed after none of the 30 guests at the party came forward as witnesses.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630013#Comment_119630013

Zarah Sultana, Coventry MP and completely nuts.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119629872#Comment_119629872

Can't imagine it kicking off over this but the "feds" would be in serious trouble bruv with all the extra work on for them this weekend, every world leader in town.

Not eveey World leader. No Putin , very likely no Xi even do he was invited and more than likely no whatever the North Korean leader is called there either. I forget lol. Maybe he should threaten to launch a few more nukes lol.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119629651#Comment_119629651

I don’t follow your logic. Surely burning buildings during an economic downturn in 2011 would also have made things worse.

Yes but people had nothing else to do there was no jobs or at least no decent jobs anyway and the people decided to riot to get the then British Governments attention.

As for people queeing to see a coffin it's to show their respect and I guess they all got a day or two off for it of there employers.

I know I think it's crazy too.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630105#Comment_119630105

In the aftermath of the 2011 London riots there were various studies and enquiries.

The London School of Economics identified opportunism as the major contributory factor

A YouGov poll saw only 5% of respondents identify unemployment as the main factor.

I don’t believe that many of the people who decide to riot would not riot if jobs were available. Many of those taking part in rioting/looting are not part of the normal economy.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119629633#Comment_119629633

if you weren't dealing with a police force who is beyond institutionally racist and every other ist and ism possible then you might have a point.

i say might as simply driving aw ay at high speed isn't of itself going to be reason enough for the use of a fire arm.

we don't actually know whether the car was in fact involved in a fire arms incident, it seems it was only suspected which is not actual.

whether the guy was a loss to society or not isn't relevant.

the police will not be brutalising protesters cause black like you are hoping for because that will, and has been proven to cause riots.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119629676#Comment_119629676

exactly, however the met can't help themselves so here we are.

black people are more likely to be treated and are often treated very differently in london by the met and always have been.

but it is clear you want these people beaten up cause black and you refer to them all as thugs cause black.

Kat1170

No more legitimate way of showing your displeasure with the Police and showing your displeasure with institutional racism than hanging a stolen 55inch TV on your sitting room wall.

🙄🙄

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630564#Comment_119630564

Can you name a police force that isn’t institutionally racist?

Now that everything from gardening to earrings are considered racist, the term has lost all meaning.

Maybe we should wait for the facts to come out and be fully investigated before we chalk this killing down to racism. Just as people assume the murder of George Floyd was a hate crime.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630936#Comment_119630936

the term racism still has it's meaning in full and hasn't lost any, or all meaning at all.

the murder of george floyd was a hate crime.

Dyr

Two met police stabbed in London uesterday

All perfectly normal. 🤔

https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/united-kingdom/two-london-police-officers-in-hospital-after-stabbing-attack-at-leicester-sq-less-than-two-kilometres-from-queenlyinginstate/news-story/73a59722f19bbb7c0ca199c3c7335134

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630999#Comment_119630999

A hate crime because he was black? Do you believe that a white person would not have been killed under similar circumstances?

Jarhead_Tendler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058263771/will-london-burn-tonight

Was Mr Kaba born without arms or did he lose them in an accident?

85603

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119629660#Comment_119629660

phew. i was worried there for a second.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630936#Comment_119630936

Lot of the issues we are dealing with now are the residue of the past centuries wild ideologies, rampant free marketing, imperialism, the 2 headed hydra of Fascism/Socialism.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119631045#Comment_119631045

He is flying without Wings?

Agent Coulson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119631007#Comment_119631007

This just 25 seconds on the BBC news.

The shooting got 5 minutes just before it.

I wonder is this because there aren't thousands of police outside the hospital the men were in protesting about those who carry knifes.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119632376#Comment_119632376

the stabbing of the police officers has been covered plenty, the only update is that charges have been brought against the perpertrator.

there is no conspiricy theory here.

mazdamiatamx5

**** THE TORY POLL TAX

Just having 1990 flashbacks here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4QQN2aqeKA&t=9s&ab_channel=ITNArchive

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119631041#Comment_119631041

A white barrister was shot dead in privileged Chelsea by police in 2008.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Mark_Saunders

In Ireland we have seen events like the following, all involving white Irish police shooting dead white Irish people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_John_Carthy

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardais-last-shooting-death-was-during-botched-robbery-26536319.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/coroner-s-court/grief-over-murder-of-jastine-valdez-will-never-pass-1.4072228

I agree with your basic point, while the British police possibly were historically racist, these days not so much.

On the other side, 13 black British teenagers died in an alleged arson attack in London in 1981, and there has been very limited publicity about that incident - compared to for example the Stardust tragedy, when 48 white Irish teens and young adults perished in the Stardust fire in Artane in the same year.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/17/forty-years-on-from-the-new-cross-fire-what-has-changed-for-black-britons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stardust_fire

if they didnt riot over grenfell its hard to see it happening now

mazdamiatamx5

When I first read about the Windrush Scandal, my instinct was to suspect that the cause of the scandal was due to unacknowledged racism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windrush_scandal

But actually, there are plenty of examples of British government injustice which seem to have nothing got do do with race - for example,

• the framing of the Birmingham Six, Maguire Seven and Guildford Four.
• the false convictions and jailing of the mostly white post office workers:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/wrongly-convicted-post-office-workers-inquiry-horizon-it

• the use of the full forces of the British state against the (mostly white) striking miners:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_miners%27_strike_%281984%E2%80%9385%29

My tentative conclusion is that the British establishment is fundamentally uncaring, untrustworthy, narcissistic, but not particularly racist - they just hate anyone unlucky enough not to be born into privilege.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119632734#Comment_119632734

But actually, there are plenty of examples of British government injustice which seem to have nothing got do do with race - for example,

the framing of the Birmingham Six, Maguire Seven and Guildford Four.

Um, I cannot think of a more racist* events in British policing history than Guildford four/Birmingham six/Maguire Seven etc. They literally rounded people up simply on the basis that they were Irish and forced them to confess and manipulated evidence to ensure life/lengthy prison sentences for people (including children) they absolutely knew where 100% innocent (and not even distant associations with those responsible).

*Yes, I am using the term "racist" in in the widely interpreted and used form where it applies to "negative cultural/national/ethnical prejudices".

Yeah the B6 and G4 weren't about skin colour but they were about Irishness.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119632694#Comment_119632694

Will the activitists pile in to their Audi s and Beamer's and go protest against those stabbings?

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630999#Comment_119630999

as was every crime George committed himself

Tonesjones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630936#Comment_119630936

Id say the killing was related to the guy out committing crimes and attempting to run over a policeman

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630999#Comment_119630999

If a black copper had killed Floyd would it have been hate crime?