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Upgrading from an old petrol 1.8 car - PHEV/EV or a Diesel for the short to medium term?

  • 14-09-2022 11:53am
    Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭

    Hi, Please bear with me as I've only been researching this for about 2 months so am very green. I would love to hear your thoughts on the below.

    I currently drive an old RAV4. I do about 1,300km per month of which maybe 2 or 3 are trips of 100km plus. Everything else is school runs, gym, shops, activities. I average €250 per month in petrol + €60 for tax. Maintenance wise the car runs very well with just an annual service and a drop of oil now and then. Sails through the nct each year.

    However its getting a bit tight in the back for the growing kids and I think its time to upgrade.

    I would love to go BEV but have a limited budget of 35k max

    I test drove the MG ZS and its really, really lovely but felt pokey in the back with car seat in it. Boot size is small (compared to the huge boot I have now - which is massive).

    I have narrowed down to 3 options:

    1. Buy a 2017ish Hyundai Tuscon or Kia Sportage ICE for about 16k, spend the rest of the budget on a big set of solar panels, battery etc. To cut electricity costs now and get a charge point ready for the BEV that I will eventually get (I think maybe a 2 or 3 year old EV Sportage when hopefully prices level off).
    2. Buy a PHEV for 35K now, install a charge point. Will be charging it once or twice per day - which I read is not great for the battery? Save up for the solar in the medium term. Thinking a Kuga or RAV4
    3. Buy an EV for 35k, but none in budget that are roomy enough. Anyone have experience of the Kona if you have 3 kids? Again I could get the charge point installed now but solar would have to wait.

    I suppose there's an option 4 of do nothing but I have had the car for almost a decade so could do with a change :)

    I don't want to lose too much in depreciation so i guess the days of holding on to a car for a decade are over . Thanks in advance


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,555 ✭✭✭...Ghost...

    Sounds pretty ideal for an EV. Look at the Nissan Note e-Power thread. I listed a bunch of EVs for under 40k there. It’s a short enough thread, but skip anything the OP wrote.

    I have to say I had no issue with a Nissan Leaf and 3 kids in the back, including a full size baby seat. No problem especially for shorter journeys. Ordering most EVs now, you will be waiting several months, but any EV new will cover your needs as you have posted them.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭kanuseeme

    I would spend your budget on a phev and get your solar panels, 100 km trip in a outlander would cost you the bones of 10 euro, 9 petrol and 1 euro electricity, Tax on both are around 170/180 a year. The outlander should do 30 km easily, more if you put some effort in to it.

    The outlander suffered from a Battery management problem, it lowered the capacity of the battery, its true capacity could be recovered by resetting it in a garage or I used to do it myself for free.

    A phev suits a lot of small trips, needs 2 to 3.5 hours to recharge, I don't know if its a problem or not, I had two 7-year-old phevs and the battery seemed good, a 20 % drop is only 10 km or so.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,955 ✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin

    So if you're looking for something RAV4 sized in a BEV then you're probably looking at an ID.4 or Enyaq or EV6.

    Unfortunately that blows your 35k budget out of the water

    However it's worth considering that any of those cars will be much cheaper to run so taking on a car loan for a year might not be bad economics

    Also the waiting list is quite long so it's possible you'll have more money saved by then

    If you're looking for a car sooner and can't go above €35k, then unfortunately you'll probably need to make some sacrifices on space or range

    Peugeot e-2008, Hyundai Kona, Nissan Leaf 40 and Hyundai Ioniq 38 should all meet your range needs and probably fit into your budget

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,021 ✭✭✭zg3409

    The Kona is very small and has probably too much range for you!.

    You can get the odd used Kia niro 64kWh battery for 32-38k price range but they are few and far between. These are far larger than the Kona. These give 300+km range.

    Factor in the fuel savings. When I went EV I was saving about 80% on fuel costs compared to petrol charging over night on night rate.

    Nissan leaf 40kWh and 38kWh ioniq will do 150+km most if the year.

    The main concern if I were you if going full battery is trips beyond the cars range require a stop at a public charger and they are often busy, blocked or broken particularly at peak times like Friday evenings. If you get an EV with 150km range versus 300km range then the amount of times per year this might be an issue is greatly reduced.

    The first step is to see if there is enough room in the back and boot for your chosen option. Personally I think if you can stretch to it get an EV with a 60+kWh battery size as they will depreciate less so overall long term cost if ownership will be less and you can go further.

  • Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭kucyk

    RAV4 PHEV for 35k? Add another 20k.

    From my experience as a RAV4 PHEV owner, after the recent increases announced charging from the grid and running the car on electricity will be around 2 times cheaper vs petrol. That would save you ~€130 a month, ~€1500 a year, that's the best case scenario, assuming the ratio of 1L of petrol to 1kWh won't change and +90% of your mileage is EV. Is it worth it? Not in the short term for sure as you need to pay a premium price for the PHEV, I guess you will start seeing first savings after 3-4 years, assuming the price per kWh won't be €1 😂. But with you budget, I would be going with option 1 and looking to upgrade the car later, most likely to BEV.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,170 ✭✭✭✭ELM327

    Don't get a kona unless you want to chop the legs off the 3 kids

  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Roxirose

    Thanks all, going to go with option 1 for now. It has to meet our needs first and foremost. Appreciate all the replies

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭kanuseeme

    Yes option one, but a phev instead of a diesel, most phev's have the same battery warranty as an EV, you will get more benefit from your panels by driving around on sunshine.

  • Registered Users Posts: 749 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty

    Was gonna say the same. Option 1.5 :-)

    Your short journeys suit a PHEV and you could pick up some solar electricity if the car is at home for a few hours a day.

    Battery grant for solar PV has been discontinued. You'll be paying full market price for a grid tied battery and the extra cost for hybrid inverter vs regular one.

    Post edited by Busman Paddy Lasty on

  • Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭PaulJoseph22

    PHEV for sure, best of both worlds, you can enjoy the ICE before they're gone forever.

    No worry about public charging and when you do progress to BEV, hopefully the technology and the infrastructure will have improved.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭coolisin

    To be honest I would go PHEV over a Diesel.

    Ok you might get a better diesel car for your 35k. Remember diesel only works best if you are ding a decent long run regularly to see the return but at 18000km a year, i wouldnt think you are there. Yes i know you say 100km twice or 3 times a month. But nearly any BEV would cover that also.

    The newer model 2019 Rav4 Hybrid might squeeze in, which I would pick over a diesel, a step up over the older rav 4 size wise.

    But you would get a nice newer Outlander with the 2.4 engine for the money.

  • Registered Users Posts: 719 ✭✭✭sh81722

    How many people actually enjoy driving 3/4 cyl ICE over EV if latter suits your needs?

    When I think PHEV I'm thinking the seemingly laggy BMW 330e eventually having moved from EV->ICE hybrid absolutely screaming past spewing out black soot from their exhaust when I dared to accelerate quicker than his EV drivetrain allowed while using a small fraction of my car's effortless pure EV torque.

    If he had had a classic 330i it would have looked way less contrived for him and probably more enjoyable too. I genuinely felt sorry for the guy. I'm sure he felt the same for me in his premium Deutsche Auto.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭kanuseeme

    I have a 330e now 2 weeks and 600km, it suits me, engine came on and I never noticed, do I care if I could have got 800 mpg instead of the 700 mpg, not really.

    The car cost me 18000 euro, my options for up to 20 k electric, are zoe, leaf and i3, which in order, its small, crap battery and 4 seats, my mpg will go down when I go on a long journey but 50 euro it will cost is very small when I think of the arseing around at a charger.

    For the op and 35k budget blowing it on an EV, when he can install solar and spend the rest on a cheaper-to-run car makes much more sense to me than worrying about some smoke,

    To suggest that an ice car is far better because of image or whatever you think is going on is bordering on pathetic, especially when the 330i is slower, less fuel efficient, and more expensive,

    Much better to stick to the old reliable rubbish like hauling around a heavy battery or some other crap.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭coolisin

    Black soot from an 330e...that person would need to get that car looked at. Cause something aint right.

  • Registered Users Posts: 719 ✭✭✭sh81722

    Cold engine with full cold start enrichment on and cold cat at full tilt having started from home charger?

  • Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭PaulJoseph22

    We have a 330e and 530e, quality premium cars, never any issues or soot……..both have around 60km ev range.