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New Eir ripoff - charging €12 for a paper bill.

2

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    What's your beef with paying by direct debit? The bill needs to be paid anyway.

    I pay for everything by direct debit, imagine having to remember to pay all the bills and then having to waste your own time doing it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    Paying by standing order is ok but direct debit you lose control over the amount - you can cancel a dd but the provider will try to charge a penalty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,961 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    The problem is Eir won't tell you that. In fact they have sent out the notification of the change without updating their customer service reps. When I put in an official complaint one of the replies I got said they didn't know the notifications had been sent out yet. Then to find out that you can potentially get a free paper bill you have to go on to comregs site. Finally if you contact Eir telling them you have no internet they will say they can't do anything about it yet because the new system isn't up and running and to call back at the end of the year.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,718 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Strange thread, wouldn’t “control” depend on usage and the tariff in your contract?

    Im struggling to see the logic of not signing up for e billing, surely at some stage op you are able to view the bill on your phone/computer?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    I never said not to sign up to e billing - I agree with e billing and less paper. I don't agree to using it to force signup to direct debits. If you read back to OP's comments he cannot sign up to paperless unless he agrees to direct debit yet also will charge €12 per bill if he doesn't sign up to paperless. He is in a catch 22 and its sharp practice.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,718 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    I was responding to your assertion that you lose “control over the amount”, surely that is dependent on tariffs and usage rather than whether or not it is DD.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    Nope there are times (especially those coming for electric) where under a direct debit you will lose control of the amount - say the provider decides that the new bill is double the previous amount then you have no control over the amount and when it’s paid. This makes it difficult to negotiate with provider without cancelling dd.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,718 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    The only time that happens is when your contract ends and you go onto a higher tariff, that still wouldn’t change the fact that the money would be owed. I’m not trying to be a contrarian, I just don’t see your point that the op would lose control of the amount paid by moving to DD. In fact, considering the cost of paper billing, e billing/DD is likely to be cheaper.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    Dd does not have to be “bundled” with e billing end of.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,718 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    You don’t have to choose the service provider either, but if you do and that is one of their conditions of service, then as a consumer, the choice is yours.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    Can you stick with the OP's issue.

    1. He is with a supplier for a landline only.
    2. He does not have internet with this supplier (he is piggybacking a neighbour).
    3. He receives bill by paper at present.
    4. He has been informed that for paper bills to continue he has to pay €12 per bill
    5. He has tried to go paperless, but eir has attached the condition of DD to registering for paperless.
    6. Eir has changed their conditions not the OP
    7. DD should not be a condition of receiving a bill (paper or paperless), yet this is the corner that eir has put him in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,718 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    I can’t be the only one wondering why someone who is IT savvy, chooses to pay €12 to receive a paper invoice when he/she could receive ebilling and DD payment. As I posted earlier, DD does not make paying your bill on time more expensive for the customer, they don’t lose control of the amount. Besides, you receive your bill online line well before your DD payment date, lots of time to query it if you think an error has been made.

    This really is like stepping back in time to an era where bills are posted and you queue up in the post office to pay. Why would you pay an extra €12 for a paper bill?

    Thats all I have to say about it, op, help yourself avoid having to pay €12, if you choose not to, fair play, you are giving Eir easy money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,865 ✭✭✭✭recode the site


    Increasingly, utility companies are forcing log-in to their portals to view bills rather than sending a pdf email.

    Nothing Known Talent Management Ltd



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly



    Re. 6

    How has Eir changed their conditions? So they have put up the price for paper bills but that is probably within their T&C.

    My recollection of when I used get paper bills is the cost of the paper bill was always itemised and so I got rid of them over time.

    Re. 7.

    Op can switch provider at end of contract.


    Re - direct debit, presumably its cheaper for Eir to accept than whatever other method the op wants to use, maybe there is a correlation between paper bills and still paying by cash in the post office or somewhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭steve-o


    Maybe some clever person can invent a way of protecting sensitive data. I doubt it's ever been done before!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    Do I really have to explain to that level?.....Fine.

    Re 6 The payment due of €12 per bill is a change to conditions, the charge did not exist previously or was zero and now it does, hence a change to conditions.

    Re 7 Yes he can, I never disputed that. But signing up to paperless when the supplier is now going to charge for paper bills should not include having to sign up to direct debit. A solution is though to sign up then cancel dd then pay as required.

    Truthfully I thing the OP is being awkward as life is too short to have constant battles for small stuff so unless the principle is something he wishes to die on I would just follow though and as you say maybe change suppliers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭q2ice


    they don’t lose control of the amount. 


    That is 100% incorrect. Direct Debits give control to the person/company you are paying. They can increase the amount whenever they want and you cannot stop the payments. You authorised them to restart the payments when authorising the DD.

    Its beyond strange that you think the only options are DDs or going to a post office. Have you ever heard of Standing Orders or paying by debit cards? Both of which doesnt require you to relinquish control.

    What happens if eir accidentally took double the amount out of your account (heard of customers been accidentally charged hundreds accidentally). If you are paying DD then you are leaving yourself open to pain - especially trying to get them to give the money back. They already have the money, so have less stake in remedying the error.

    Also, getting the bill a few days before the money is taken via DD wouldnt help in the slightest. Have you ever tried to get through to eirs customer service? They are shambolic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    Perhaps but my point is it may be out of companies hands to send .pdf bills via email?

    I'd prefer if they did but it all seems to be login to account to see your bill.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,970 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I don't see how emailing me my bill is a security risk. Eir have a long history of overcharging people. They get away with it because it's a pain in the arse to sign in and navigate their broken website to find the bill



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,970 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Everytime I have to use the Eir website my stress levels skyrocket



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,598 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    I've rejected direct debits from eir and had no issues with extra charges.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,598 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    >you cannot stop the payments.

    You can with certain banks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    I just lifted this from comreg.

    • Paper bills must be issued unless the service provider has verified that the consumer can access and use the alternative billing medium (such as electronic billing).

    So in essence there is no requirement to provide people with a paper bill at all (unless people can't access it electronically etc.) I am not sure how its a change of conditions TBH.

    Requiring DD to get an electronic bill he may have a point though, although there are probably significant costs associated with gathering in money by other methods, so charging for paper bills may be to recover some of this cost.

    I was in Ulster bank recently and the amount of people still going into the branch for basic transactions was a surprise. Some people just want to fight change. I was there to lodge business cash but other than that I've switched multiple accounts, cards, direct debits etc. without using a letterbox or visiting any BOI branch.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,718 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    They can only charge what you agreed to when choosing their service. Are mistakes made? Of course, but not often. In the vast majority of cases, unexpected hikes in costs are due to a fixed term contract ending. If prices go up and you are annoyed, get out your contract and read it.

    Going to the PO to pay isn’t the only way of doing so, but from a technological viewpoint, it’s the equivalent of asking for a paper bill to be posted to you, and choosing to pay for the privilege. It’s archaic. Why would you go online to pay by debit card, but refuse an online invoice? It simply doesn’t make sense, particularly when there is such a high cost attached to refusing an online service like billing.

    I do agree that getting hold of Eir support can be a frustrating endeavour, but how many times do people have to contact them in relation to bills, when the answer is in the contract?

    Are Eir in the habit of double billing? I’ve been with them off and on for many years, always paid DD, never gotten a double hit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 818 ✭✭✭WildCardDoW


    All OP has to do is ring up, ask if their account is on R6, if so then paperless bills can be ticked without changing payment method.

    There might be more after that in the bill process and the bill will still likely need to be accessed via my eir but I doubt it.


    Otherwise OP can complain to Comreg and see if Comreg agree that eir's inclusion of needing to use DD breaks any rule of it being required for customers to access paperless bills. (Is there one?)

    If neither option works then OP is out of luck and this is only a silly complaint be ause they refuse to use direct debit for reasons made up in this thread by a few.

    (You can always cancel direct debit with your bank well in advance of the provider taking money).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭q2ice


    You of course stop the payments, with whatever bank you happen to be with. Thats a guarantee. The problem with DDs is that the other party can restart the DD without any consent from you.

    That is the problem with Direct Debits. It gives control to the person/company you are paying. Which is why they love DDs.

    You can try to stop the payment but they have the right to restart the payment without any consultation from your bank with you.

    How dont people understand this? DDs are crap and should be avoided



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭q2ice


    You rejected payments from eir and they did not restart the payment themselves? Sounds like you are either spoofing or are not giving the full story.

    Like you paid them outside of the DD and restarted.

    Or did you reject the payments but made the payments another way? Either way is different than what you are portraying - which is eir sent you a bill and you cancelled the DD without the bill being payed but didnt receive any charges, even though you didnt pay the bill.


    Do you work for eir?



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,480 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    You can entirely block someone since SEPA came in. Can't be restarted without you removing it.

    You can also revoke payments taken in a recent period



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭q2ice


    You and the person who thanked the post clearly dont know how Direct Debits work. Not a slur on either of you, just an annoyance of the lack of understanding of the difference between Standing orders and Direct Debits.

    Direct Debit means that companies can change the amount they take from your account without consulting you. They have control over how much is taken. Signing a direct debit essentially says you trust them to only take the correct amount. They control the amount thay comes out of your account.

    Standing order means you control the amount that comes out of your account.



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