New Eir ripoff - charging €12 for a paper bill.

The Continental Op

Just got a contract change letter with the bill from Eir

New charge for Paper bill of €12 - €5.99 per month.

Now I know plenty will jump in and say who needs bills sent out by post in this day and age.

My argument is that Eir refuse to supply me with any form of Broadband connection (Fiber stops 400m up the road) and our house is in a mobile phone black spot so they should send out a bill for free.

If we had decent mobile coverage in the house I wouldn't darken Eir's door.

lawrencesummers

Thats the consequence of living in rural Ireland, something that has many advantages which you benefit from.

You can get your landline from many other companies, shop around.

Irish_wolf

Eir being notoriously shite with their services is nothing new. My aunt lives in a very rural part of Mayo and was told for years by Eir that the lines in her area were not capable of supplying broadband. She eventually got in contact with a different company that hooked her up no bother for like €20 extra on top of the install fees for a super fast broadband package, wasn't gigabit or fibre but was enough to stream HD Netflix or whatever you want. Check around to see if there are other companies in your area who might be able to hook you up.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119584778#Comment_119584778

Thanks I used to work in IT some of it hooking people up. No chance we'll have broadband from anyone here for a few years. Starlink is one option a neighbor has but I pay another neighbors broadband bill (they aren't there most of the year) and have a 400m wireless link to it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058262357/new-eir-ripoff-charging-12-for-a-paper-bill

In order to go to paperless bills with Eir you have to sign up to direct debit as well.

whomitconcerns

What do you feel you are missing out for on not having a paper bill?

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588951#Comment_119588951

Service from a service industry

mondeoman72

Its not a ripoff its a polite feck off for anyone wanting a bill posted. They are forcing people off paper bills. I was in the Uk recently and a woman fell. Nothing wrong with her. She called an ambulance and was quoted 7 hours.

Its a polite way of telling you NO.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119589973#Comment_119589973

Your knowledge of the current situation with ambulances in the UK is shockling bad.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588905#Comment_119588905

Fortunately not, from the notice I received.

• Online billing via email and my eir - Remains free of charge
• Payment via direct debit, credit or debit card or instore - Remains free of charge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119590048#Comment_119590048

I get the following message if i login to my online Eir account and try to change to paperless billing.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119591836#Comment_119591836

I'll call them and if necessary put in a Formal Complaint tomorrow and see what happens.

L1011

The cost to send a bill out is going to be in the 2 quid range (postage - there is very little discount for mass mailing, printing, logistics) so a charge isn't that odd. 12 quid for a single bill is, however, nuts.

The Continental Op

https://www.comreg.ie/advice-information/billing-and-disputed-charges/#Accessible-Billing

If a customer cannot access the alternative billing medium, (for example because the customer does not have broadband access or cannot use an on-line service), the service provider must issue the customer with paper bills free-of-charge.

Also didn't notice that they are changing to monthly billing for landline customers.

From the link above there is also this..

What are the rules?

The main rules introduced include:

• The provision of bills to post-paid consumers free-of-charge.
• 
  
• If the customer is on electronic billing and subsequently notifies their provider that they cannot access their bill, bills must be provided in paper medium free-of-charge. Once a consumer notifies their provider they cannot reasonably access their bill, bills must be provided in paper medium free-of-charge.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119592202#Comment_119592202

The cost of running an email service is next to nothing but look what Eir are charging for that.

The Continental Op

If asked Comreg a question on this by email and been on to Eir.

The Eir rep seems to think the above info I quoted from the comreg site has changed so they can charge for a paper bill however they will let me off the charge because I don't have internet at home.

But in typical Eir fashion they can't put a note on the system to that effect at the moment because it seems their systems are messed up while they change over to a new system. I need to call back at the end of December to sort it.

Waiting to see what comreg say.

whippet

but you have broadband access ... albeit via a wireless bridge from another site - you have access.

As per the conditions you posted - it only mentions access or inability to use an on-line service. Quite clearly you have access to broadband and you can us an on-line service.

If a customer cannot access the alternative billing medium, (for example because the customer does not have broadband access or cannot use an on-line service), the service provider must issue the customer with paper bills free-of-charge.

I might sound pedantic - but you want a paper bill and don't want to pay for it when an electronic option is available to you.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119595900#Comment_119595900

Going paperless would have been OK but Eir also want me to have a direct debit to do that. I have a connection because someone else isn't using theirs, there is no guarantee that I can continue to use it. Previously I used a 4G connection that was in a neighbors garden with a wireless link to it - someone put a bouncy castle anchor through the buried power cable and as it wasn't replaced I lost that connection. If Eir want to provide me with broadband then it would be different.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058262357/new-eir-ripoff-charging-12-for-a-paper-bill

Is your paper bill for broadband or landline phone?

The Continental Op

Just phone line.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588951#Comment_119588951

Easy access to your bills when you change broadband providers in a years time

Sure you can print off every bill before you move. But that's gonna take you a full day of your life if you aren't met with constant login issues and crashes and broken links

Everything is locked behind a portal now. If they just emailed you the PDF that would be fine. But making users login to see and download a bill is just more sharp practice

whomitconcerns

True..I love looking at my old bills???? Why would you want that?

I know how much I pay. I haven't even owned a printer in years as they are so shoddy these days.

Not trying to be a pain here... But there is generally no need for regular people to have a paper bill anymore at all other than wanting to be awkward to prove a point.

Of course there are exceptions due to physical/mental considerations... And they should be free of course.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669419#Comment_119669419

Do you also love paying by direct debit? You can't go paperless without signing up for paying by direct debit. More sharp practice by Eir!

AnRothar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669090#Comment_119669090

Curious,

What's to stop you logging in each month and downloading the bill in pdf yourself?

That way you will have your own copy?

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669090#Comment_119669090

Not sharp practice,

Its a level of security given the information bills contain and what they can be used for,

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670158#Comment_119670158

Rubbish! If you forget to pay Eir are quick enough to phone with an automated message telling you that you haven't paid and who knows who will pick the phone up. No security questions just a pay up message.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670225#Comment_119670225

It's a bit harder to do identity theft when you've only got the ghost of an automated phone message ringing your ear!

bureau2009

A relative of mine is in their nineties, zero e-mail skills and only very very basic banking skills.

This is causing huge problems for them. And their landline is very important to them.

whomitconcerns

Yes I do. I pay everything on direct debit for more than 20 years!

Thinkingaboutit

Others might have said it, tho I cannot see, but my reverting to paper for Vodafone post pay would also incur a 12 Euro charge, nearly doubling my monthly bill.

whomitconcerns

Of course there are exceptions cases like this where it should be free if they need it. Which I am sure they do

WildCardDoW

Change to another provider who'd offer a contract for less than what you'd pay eir for landline and a bill.

If you can't find that then eir aren't being a rip off - they're the only player in the very small market of land-line only packages (most of them legacy packages) or they are offering a logical price / package in line with competitors.

Anyway, you clearly have Internet access (posting on an Internet board) which means you can definitely download your bill. Ring up and ask them to turn on paperless billing without direct debit if you haven't tried that yet - seems like it would socle you complaint.

You'd have to hope your package isn't on TIS I'd think.

The problem is there is maintenance and upkeep in maintaining these services, as less and less people use the service they have to up the costs for the remaining users.

Sometimes other services are priced to force users off them.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669534#Comment_119669534

What's your beef with paying by direct debit? The bill needs to be paid anyway.

I pay for everything by direct debit, imagine having to remember to pay all the bills and then having to waste your own time doing it.

kennethsmyth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670545#Comment_119670545

Paying by standing order is ok but direct debit you lose control over the amount - you can cancel a dd but the provider will try to charge a penalty.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670437#Comment_119670437

The problem is Eir won't tell you that. In fact they have sent out the notification of the change without updating their customer service reps. When I put in an official complaint one of the replies I got said they didn't know the notifications had been sent out yet. Then to find out that you can potentially get a free paper bill you have to go on to comregs site. Finally if you contact Eir telling them you have no internet they will say they can't do anything about it yet because the new system isn't up and running and to call back at the end of the year.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670588#Comment_119670588

Strange thread, wouldn’t “control” depend on usage and the tariff in your contract?

Im struggling to see the logic of not signing up for e billing, surely at some stage op you are able to view the bill on your phone/computer?

kennethsmyth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119671103#Comment_119671103

I never said not to sign up to e billing - I agree with e billing and less paper. I don't agree to using it to force signup to direct debits. If you read back to OP's comments he cannot sign up to paperless unless he agrees to direct debit yet also will charge €12 per bill if he doesn't sign up to paperless. He is in a catch 22 and its sharp practice.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119671213#Comment_119671213

I was responding to your assertion that you lose “control over the amount”, surely that is dependent on tariffs and usage rather than whether or not it is DD.

kennethsmyth

Nope there are times (especially those coming for electric) where under a direct debit you will lose control of the amount - say the provider decides that the new bill is double the previous amount then you have no control over the amount and when it’s paid. This makes it difficult to negotiate with provider without cancelling dd.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119671476#Comment_119671476

The only time that happens is when your contract ends and you go onto a higher tariff, that still wouldn’t change the fact that the money would be owed. I’m not trying to be a contrarian, I just don’t see your point that the op would lose control of the amount paid by moving to DD. In fact, considering the cost of paper billing, e billing/DD is likely to be cheaper.

kennethsmyth

Dd does not have to be “bundled” with e billing end of.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119671909#Comment_119671909

You don’t have to choose the service provider either, but if you do and that is one of their conditions of service, then as a consumer, the choice is yours.

kennethsmyth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119671956#Comment_119671956

Can you stick with the OP's issue.

1. He is with a supplier for a landline only.
2. He does not have internet with this supplier (he is piggybacking a neighbour).
3. He receives bill by paper at present.
4. He has been informed that for paper bills to continue he has to pay €12 per bill
5. He has tried to go paperless, but eir has attached the condition of DD to registering for paperless.
6. Eir has changed their conditions not the OP
7. DD should not be a condition of receiving a bill (paper or paperless), yet this is the corner that eir has put him in.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672113#Comment_119672113

I can’t be the only one wondering why someone who is IT savvy, chooses to pay €12 to receive a paper invoice when he/she could receive ebilling and DD payment. As I posted earlier, DD does not make paying your bill on time more expensive for the customer, they don’t lose control of the amount. Besides, you receive your bill online line well before your DD payment date, lots of time to query it if you think an error has been made.

This really is like stepping back in time to an era where bills are posted and you queue up in the post office to pay. Why would you pay an extra €12 for a paper bill?

Thats all I have to say about it, op, help yourself avoid having to pay €12, if you choose not to, fair play, you are giving Eir easy money.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669090#Comment_119669090

Increasingly, utility companies are forcing log-in to their portals to view bills rather than sending a pdf email.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672230#Comment_119672230

Something to do with sensitive data maybe?

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672113#Comment_119672113

Re. 6

How has Eir changed their conditions? So they have put up the price for paper bills but that is probably within their T&C.

My recollection of when I used get paper bills is the cost of the paper bill was always itemised and so I got rid of them over time.

Re. 7.

Op can switch provider at end of contract.

Re - direct debit, presumably its cheaper for Eir to accept than whatever other method the op wants to use, maybe there is a correlation between paper bills and still paying by cash in the post office or somewhere.

steve-o

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672283#Comment_119672283

Maybe some clever person can invent a way of protecting sensitive data. I doubt it's ever been done before!

kennethsmyth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672343#Comment_119672343

Do I really have to explain to that level?.....Fine.

Re 6 The payment due of €12 per bill is a change to conditions, the charge did not exist previously or was zero and now it does, hence a change to conditions.

Re 7 Yes he can, I never disputed that. But signing up to paperless when the supplier is now going to charge for paper bills should not include having to sign up to direct debit. A solution is though to sign up then cancel dd then pay as required.

Truthfully I thing the OP is being awkward as life is too short to have constant battles for small stuff so unless the principle is something he wishes to die on I would just follow though and as you say maybe change suppliers.

q2ice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672224#Comment_119672224

they don’t lose control of the amount. 

That is 100% incorrect. Direct Debits give control to the person/company you are paying. They can increase the amount whenever they want and you cannot stop the payments. You authorised them to restart the payments when authorising the DD.

Its beyond strange that you think the only options are DDs or going to a post office. Have you ever heard of Standing Orders or paying by debit cards? Both of which doesnt require you to relinquish control.

What happens if eir accidentally took double the amount out of your account (heard of customers been accidentally charged hundreds accidentally). If you are paying DD then you are leaving yourself open to pain - especially trying to get them to give the money back. They already have the money, so have less stake in remedying the error.

Also, getting the bill a few days before the money is taken via DD wouldnt help in the slightest. Have you ever tried to get through to eirs customer service? They are shambolic.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672359#Comment_119672359

Perhaps but my point is it may be out of companies hands to send .pdf bills via email?

I'd prefer if they did but it all seems to be login to account to see your bill.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670158#Comment_119670158

I don't see how emailing me my bill is a security risk. Eir have a long history of overcharging people. They get away with it because it's a pain in the arse to sign in and navigate their broken website to find the bill