Show me the way...

SteelyDanJalapeno

Hi All,

Apologies in advance if this in the wrong section, ever since the change I can hardly navigate the forum, but this post is also multi levelled and does involve some/alot of renewable questions.....

We (2 adults) bought a house 2 years ago that we have kind of settled into now, and I really need some help/guidance on where to go or what to do in terms on bringing our energy costs down and future proofing it where it makes sense.

The house : Dormer style, built in 2000, sold with a C2 BER rating however I do intend to get an independent assessment done asap. The house is pumped with beads and dry lined internally, it has some attic insulation too. and the roof is sprayed with foam (all done correctly and poses no health or damp risk, inspected before buying) and double glaze windows throughout, however they are now 30 years old and most of the seals (and some hinges) have failed leaving a lot of draughts in on the windy days, nullifying any insulation we have. There is also 4 velux windows which appear to be still in very good condition, and our front is solid wood (teak) which also needs to be replaced.

It sits on about 0.6 acre site with a south facing garden and back roof, the front gets very little sun.

Heating : Currently we have a small solid fuel stove to heat our living room and a condensing oil boiler to heat the house, the boiler has been serviced recently and is in ok condition but the engineer did say we would benefit from an upgrade to a more efficient condensing boiler. Over the past 2 years I'd estimate we use about 700 litres of kerosene per year, that seems a little high for 2 people, but not an expert here, and maybe if we upgraded to a more efficient boiler, that might reduce.

My wife works from home, so during the colder days she could also use an electric fan heater in the office to keep that room warm, I dont know if this is more economical that maybe turning the heat on for an hour or so, but I might get some of those plugs that con monitor energy usage to figure that out, with the wild price swings in Oil, and the ever increasing electricity cost, this doesn't seem too crazy to do.

Plumbing : We are quite remote so there is no mains water supply, we have a well and filter system that has basically failed on us and we are in the process of getting that upgraded now, our water is heavy in maganese which can cause discoloration to water, sinks, baths, clothes etc.

Its fine to wash in, but is currently not drinkable and is ruining some clothes, so we have started the upgrade of our pump and filters now, which 80 - 90% of will be covered by a grant. This will give us very clean water to the house again.

1 electric shower used daily (about 60 mins per week)

Immersion used to heat house water outside of the winter months as the heating will heat it then.

Energy Usage : This is partly why I started this long winded (sorry) thread, I didnt realize until I sat down with a friend recently and chatted about the cost of electricity, but it appears of electricity usage is quite high compared to others, we used 900 units for June & July @ 0.33c per unit, where as colleagues with various different set ups and different numbers of people in the house were between 300 - 700 units.

Caveat, we do have an ID.3 which I would maybe once weekly charge off the granny cable, I have free charging in work which I try take advantage mostly, but sometimes it doesn't always work out. So I mean I do charge from home, but its not predictable, but I on average probably 2 - 3 times per month to full (50KW)

There was also a smart meter installed on the house before we bought it, not sure I would have chosen this, but I cannot get it removed now without a big upfront cost, so we have a flat rate of 33c with energia currently, this might increase soon I assume.

So here is where I am fairly lost and looking for your guidance or opinions.

The house has no solar tech at all, and I have no idea what best makes sense for our needs. I thought our electricity needs were quite low, we cook, we watch some TV, WFH, small bit of gaming and moderate shower usage, but we do both enjoy a bath and that has mainly been the immersion so I guess I underestimated that and possibly the car charging is bumping it up the odd time too.

So we have a budget to upgrade our windows, doors, maybe add a little more attic insulation, however the house stays relatively warm if its not windy, so I really think the doors and windows will make a marked improvement, and then another 50% of the budget earmarked for adding solar for PV and/or water heating.

I just don't know where to start, I'm an electronic engineer myself so quite comfortable with the terms, however I've never had any exposure to solar really, so I just don't even know what's available out there.

Should I get PV panels for electricity, and tubes for water?

Are batteries worth it, considering the smart meter and south facing only?

Would somebody typically generate enough to charge a car aswel as power there home?

I've attached pics of the house and the garden as I'm also open to ground mounting an array, however it does get very windy here, I'm just off the coast.

Planning on putting a decent sized shed soon too that I could orientate as best whatever makes sense to put them on the roof.

All opinions and help is greatly appreciated!

I'll be keeping this thread updated with any progress I make, thanks in advance!

graememk

Great background, but as you know its very hard to reply to long posts, So i'll try and make a few points.

Firstly, Get a energy monitor, (Owl, efenergy, Shelly EM, EmonPi to name a few) That will help you to figure out where your power is going.

Should I get PV panels for electricity, and tubes for water?

Yes If you can afford it, Solar PV is a no brainer right now. I wouldnt worry about solar tubes now, Id go pure pv, And get an immersion diverter for your DHW.

Are batteries worth it, considering the smart meter and south facing only? 

Jury is out on that one right now with the feed in tariff. Batteries are lovely to have [smug mode], but the payback now is iffy esp with the FIT. (DIY could be an option!)

Would somebody typically generate enough to charge a car aswel as power there home?

Yeah Easily, If you have enough panels, Although that depends if the car is actually home when the sun is shining!

I've attached pics of the house and the garden as I'm also open to ground mounting an array, however it does get very windy here, I'm just off the coast.

Planning on putting a decent sized shed soon too that I could orientate as best whatever makes sense to put them on the roof.

What sort of shed you talking about, A built one or more of a Steel portal frame one?

Steel roofs are SUPER easy to put panels on. No messing around with tiles, slates etc. With a Low slope it wouldnt really matter if the panels are south facing or even E/W

heres a great site to play about with https://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvg_tools/en/#PVP its estimates are good (but its on a month by month basis)

Another thing about the shed, Put good Ducting +power (say 10mm2) out to it. So inverter etc can be out there. Cat6 are normally used now for CT so hybrid inverters can measure the grid.

TLDR: Build shed, put solar on it, and aalso you being on the coast you might be one of the few people here that could make a wind turbine work.. but get solar first.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Thank you graememk

I just been researching the Shelley monitor, I think I will pick that up looks like exactly what I need. I actually assumed I could do similar with the smart meter on the home, but it turns out I still need to physically look at the meter if I want a reading from it, not very smart.

"Yes If you can afford it, Solar PV is a no brainer right now. I wouldnt worry about solar tubes now, Id go pure pv, And get an immersion diverter for your DHW."

Is the immersion diverter an "Eddi" type device? Are solar tubes a thing of the past?

"Jury is out on that one right now with the feed in tariff. Batteries are lovely to have [smug mode], but the payback now is iffy esp with the FIT. (DIY could be an option!)"

Is it an option to get an approved install for grants etc that would allow me to add batteries down the line DIY? I mean is there diverters, invertors, panels etc that I should get to enable this down the line? or if the cost is negligible I could just add the batteries to install, from everything I'm reading thou the battery costs vary widely.

"What sort of shed you talking about, A built one or more of a Steel portal frame one?"

I haven't fully decided yet, Steeltech will be a lot quicker, but I can get a block shed and roof done for similar cost here, which would be a lot more secure in some of the gusts here. Either way I can at least ensure the roof orientation will make sense for solar, however I take your comment on tiles/slates Vs sheet metal.

Your comments have been super helpful, gonna play around with that site now, thanks!

P.S. wind turbine is on my research list, however I see 3 broken ones in neighbours gardens already.

poker--addict

Shop around for electricity provider and see what is your best rate. This should be done today if not already done as its easy money to help fund everything else.

slave1

Coastal, does not impact me but there are ratings for panel subject to salty winds and the like, I know nothing about them, just barely aware of their existence.

If you go Ground Mount, (I would) then you can get bifacial panels to extend your Generation in terms of Qty and time of day...

SteelyDanJalapeno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580126#Comment_119580126

Thanks for this! I did not know these existed!

My fear is securing them, I think I'd need to leave a least a small gap between each or else they'd act as a big sail and end up in the atlantic

slave1

There are ground mounts across the world in windier places, likes of Renusol have high wind rating, imagine the "foundation" determine a lot, when I put mine in I went deeper and wider than probably necessary but mine ain't going nowhere!

jkforde

domestic wind turbine = broke + a broken heart + ulcer, steer clear imho

bullit_dodger

As Graeme said - great post, and the pictures help a lot. People intuitively know a lot about the space and the land you have available and can target better their answers.

So, if you haven't already done so, the FAQ

Interested in Solar PV? Read this FAQ first. — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

was written for specifically this scenario. Doesn't answer everything, but it will give you a good start. When people come in, the first thing that they should do (which you are) is get a handle on how much, where and when your current electricity is being used. It's obvious, but you can't improve something unless you can measure it. Following on from that, knowing how much you consume definitively even from non-technical devices such as simply looking online at your bills for the last 12-18 months and charting them in a spreadsheet, really helps paint a picture in your mind of the problem your trying to solve.

It's mentioned in the FAQ, but simple things like LED lights, etc ... they really do make a difference.

Solar tubes definitely still have a place out there. Per sq meter, they are about 2x more efficient at converting the sun's energy into hot water, but with the dramatic decrease in solar pv over the last decade, they are no longer fiscally competitive. It's just far easier and way cheaper to install a panel on a rail and run a wire than it is plumb pipes etc. So on that front, I'd also echo what the lads mentioned and forget solar tubes and just go with a Solar PV installation with an Eddi (hot water diverter for excess energy).

With the land you have and potential shed, you've a plethora of options for where you can install. On your existing house, the shed, a seperate ground mount. If you've an engineering background, all is doable yourself, albeit you'll need a registered spark to sign off on the connection to the consumer unit.

Have a look too at the different rates out there on bonkers.ie - that could simply save you a few quid in the short term.

As for Wind, with your land and location....I'd give it a shot, but only way down the line after installing a PV setup first.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Long overdue update!

So after far too much procrastinating I went ahead with a DIY ground mount!

SteelyDanJalapeno

I have done everything 100% DIY so far, the frame is built from Unistrut that I picked up in a local electrical suppliers, I rented a mini digger and cement mixer a few weeks back and get it done over a long weekend, next steps are to get a sparky to connect to my fuse board and hopefully sign off the NC6.....

Any recommendations in the cork area?

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120566046#Comment_120566046

Fair play. Looks class

SteelyDanJalapeno

Got sorted with a safe registered electrician local, going by some feedback here and Facebook I thought I might struggle to get somebody to sign off on my work, but maybe I got lucky on my 1st call.

Quote is 800, includes all AC connections, fitting rcb, zappi to be installed and all AC connected, rcb to be fitted for zappi too.

Probably only a few hours work, nearly all hardware is supplied by me and in place.

Quote is 800, seai grant back on the charger then

poker--addict

Is there specific measurements you used for mounts/spacing?

10-10-20

That's a great install, well done. Due to your fantastic aspect and clear horizon, the only thing that I might have done differently would have been to have a mixed aspect installation so that 100% of the panels aren't in a single orientation, ie I might have had 25% facing SSE, 50% facing S and 25% facing SSW. But that would have affected the inverter configuration somewhat and made it more challenging or electrically tricky.

Just some guidance as you appear to be on or near the sea as the last thing that you want is corrosion in a DC/MC4 connector. Ensure that the unistrut frame is well earthed with good quality electrical lugs and possibly over-rate the earthing cable to provide some additional protection from weathering. That way you might eliminate some of the galvanic corrosion which happens with mixed metals by having a good equipotential bond across all metal components. Also wrap any electrical connections in protective tape and secure them well under the panels so that the wires have no free slack and aren't receiving run-off drips which will continue into the connectors.

SteelyDanJalapeno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120615927#Comment_120615927

Super thanks a lot for the guidance!

I had considered dual aspect, but to reduce complexity and make the build easier I opted it for the above design.

I have some earth bonding cables ready to go! Just did a continuity test all over the frame and there is a few sections that don't have continuity, but I will bond all joints to be sure.

I'm less than eager to drill a hole in each one of my unistrut lengths, but I assume I have no other option her to fix the lugs on?

SteelyDanJalapeno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120615821#Comment_120615821

I've seen a few designs vary from 3 legs supporting 16 panels :o to a leg per panel (8)

I opted for somewhere in between and it's stronger than it needs to be, really depends on the material you use and how exposed you are to gusts

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120618344#Comment_120618344

Unistrut do an earthing strap but I don't see the recommended method of connecting. It's probably using a common zinc plated screw anyway.

Hellrazer

I'm less than eager to drill a hole in each one of my unistrut lengths, but I assume I have no other option her to fix the lugs on?

Could you not use the ordinary copper pipe bonding straps? I used them on square bar when I was bonding the house - I probably went a bit over kill with the bonding and bonded everything including the sink supports which are square box - the bonding straps worked well on them and might save you drilling your frames.

SteelyDanJalapeno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120619165#Comment_120619165

Great shout, I'll pick up some straps, every new hole and cut on the unistrut is an opportunity for corrosion that I wanted to avoid

SteelyDanJalapeno

My electrician connected me to the grid yesterday, wasn't a whole lot for him to do, I had all the DC done, and had swa in place for the panels and car charger so it was just a matter of connecting it on each end and running his tests, all testing was perfect and signed off by him.

Very impressed with today's yield, about 42 kWhs and it was cloudy until 12!

A very enjoyable project from start to finish, I learned a lot

9pm this evening getting the last of that setting sun

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120720183#Comment_120720183

I like that.

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120720183#Comment_120720183

Class, fair play to you.

Fantana2

Fantastic job, do you mind giving a breakdown of system size and cost? I am also in Cork so wouldn’t be averse to giving it a go with the right electrician to sign off on it.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Ah cheers,

I'll detail all this evening,