Landlord evictions 1000 in 2nd Quarter due to selling up

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119568726#Comment_119568726

Ways around that, sell for a small profit, with a bag of cash that revenue knows nothing about...

My SIL just sold her house officially for €225k with a buddle of cash(€50k) buyer pays less stamp duty, and is allowed to use his money from his cash business without revenue knowing

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571604#Comment_119571604

And then when they go to sell it they can put the 1% saving on stamp duty against the 33% CGT on the phantom profit from selling. Only benefit would be for laundering money.

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571670#Comment_119571670

Not if they never intend to sell like a majority of buyers

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570122#Comment_119570122

Won't inflation affect us all including farmers, lol

Fol20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119569975#Comment_119569975

So supply is rental supply is decreasing. Your happy its "flushing out" Landlords that cant cope with it. In a healthy functional market, when one ll leaves, another enters due to the "enormous profits" but thats not being seen here. If its so good why are more ll not entering?

What is your proposed solution as all of your comments for months is complete anti ll with no regard for the current setup where tenants are paying higher and higher rent, ll are also getting messed over and leaving as they are equally unhappy with the setup.

Fol20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570564#Comment_119570564

Agreed. i tend to skip over his comments at this point as there is no objectiveness to it.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571757#Comment_119571757

Happy for you to provide links to your sources for who is buying said houses.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571741#Comment_119571741

The response was in relation to food inflation. Lets see how much respect people suddenly find for agriculture when their food costs rocket and they realise that some farms don't bother producing much because their prices are still too low to make it worthwhile.

CAP was put in place to drive down prices for consumers. It wasn't for the benefit of farmers.

Flinty997

How do you make them rent/sell them though..

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/are-there-really-lots-of-vacant-high-end-apartments-in-dublin-1.4797711

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571833#Comment_119571833

I know, but won't inflation hit us farmers as hard as anyone, there's no point laughing at everyone else while being a frog in a boiling saucepan

Also " let's see how much respect people suddenly find for agriculture when their food costs rocket" I'm sure theirs landlords out there saying the same thing about themselves

As for farmers not producing food because there's nothing out of it is similar to landlords leaving accommodation idle or selling up due to rpz and over regulation, both very similar arguments I'm sure you'll agree

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571933#Comment_119571933

Well not really. There is no logical argument for whinging about being caught in a RPZ. It only limits you from raising your prices beyond a percentage above what you were happy to rent them at previously.

When a person buys a house, the price they pay for it is fixed at that point in time. Especially given that there are long term fixed mortgages now. Suppose you charge 1000 a month and say you even have to put 20% of that towards expenses (200). If you are allowed a 4% rise in what you can charge, then you are up 40 Euro. That would cover a 20% increase in expenses. The capital value of your house will more or less increase with inflation over the long term unless it is overvalued now. So you don't need an inflationary bump in your "income". That argument still holds from the financial theory even if you paid up front and don't have a loan/mortgage.

In other words, if it is somehow not financially sound for you to rent in a RPZ now, it can't have been financially sound for you to do it before the RPZ was introduced. The yield on residential property is very high given its stability and relatively small systemic risk.

For food production, you are at the mercy of both ends. You can make an investment today, and hope that in a few years the price you receive will be good enough to help you cover the costs. Even next Spring, you can go and pay through the nose for your inputs without any real guarantee of what you will get for the outputs later in the year. You can forward sell some for a fixed price but that leaves you on the hook if you can't deliver it for whatever reason.So it's not comparable to passive income from having signed a loan agreement one afternoon 10 years ago.

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572216#Comment_119572216

So most farmers should sell their land and use the money to buy houses to rent as the risk is tiny and rewards are tied to inflation so the price of the house is ever increasing, how is this still a secret to so many

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572373#Comment_119572373

You've made up a lot of things there in your own head and convinced yourself that someone else said them

3DataModem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119568837#Comment_119568837

The yields are still insanely high.

You can buy an apartment in Dublin 8 for 220k, say 235k after bidding, say 240k including all costs (Manor Hall, 1 bed, currently for sale).

Those places are achieving 18000 rental income. Take out 2k for service charge and agent, plus another 2k or so for maintenence / insurance, and you are looking at 14k per annum pretax.

That's close to a pre-tax 6% yield. Yes there is a risk premium, but it's a risk on the income not the capital (generally speaking).

Most people look at this in the context of debt... i.e. if you borrowed 200k to buy it over 20 years that will cost 1200 per month or so, and make the whole thing a cashflow drain (after tax) and a pain in the neck. Making the foolish decision to manage it yourself to save 100 per month (gross) makes it a bigger pain in the neck.

However for the REITs and other cashed-up buyers, Irish residential properties are delivering a massive return. There is nowhere else to get a solid 6% gross dividend on capital with limited long term capital risk and inflation proofing.

It just feels like a nightmare if you do it yourself and borrow to do it (like most accidental landlords).

Still stihl waters 3

If the government had stayed building houses like they did in the 50s to the 80s we wouldn't be in this mess, trying to privatise a market like housing is nothing short of crazy as they could never keep up with the pace as we have seen with the last 2 decades, local authorities need to start building houses to sell with a percentage given over to social housing with an option to buy, it's really that simple

timmyntc

Owner occupiers have less people per bedroom than renters. This is replicated not just nationwide, but worldwide - homeowners even with families tend to have more "rooms" compared to renters in a shared house. And theres nothing wrong with that, theyre entitled to its their house.

But you have to recognise that small landlords selling up en mass is not good - some people with get a new family home, but the majority will be losing out. Now not only can they not afford a house, they also cant find a place to rent as the supply has decreased!

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572699#Comment_119572699

then take 51% as most landlords are also working as well PRSI, PAYE and USC leaves you with a little under 7k. Then throw in life insurance and home insurance and property tax easily another 1k. So 6k - 500 a month now this is where the risk is if you get a tenant who knows the rules and knows that landlords are vulnerable when it comes to dealing with tenants paying. So your basically making a 500 Euro risk a month and thats if your not servicing a mortgage on the property which will be at a higher rate due to investment properties being on a higher rate and your betting on your tenant continuing to pay, they can stop and stay rent free in your premise for 4 years, wreck the place and walk away with no recourse.

Supercell

Wait until the Shinners get in next election, landlords may forget out evicting non paying tenants ever or likely even being able to sell up without a tenent in place. That's going to be a horror show, dont blame the landlords selling at all.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119568755#Comment_119568755

The plan from all sides is to have rental sector nearly completely dominated by Corporate entities and some social housing.

No one wants to change that.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574230#Comment_119574230

FG and FF will make sure that the sector is completely finished for the small operation.

There isn't really a difference between them and SF on that.

Ideo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574230#Comment_119574230

Can you point me to where Sinn Fein's policy is in relation to this? I've seen lots of comments to this effect, but couldn't find anything meaningful. I think SF's policy would be madness and wouldn't stand up in court as it would seriously impact on a person's property (i.e. property owners house). There is a complete imbalance of rights between tenants and property owners, why anyone would want to be a landlord is beyond me!

Supercell

Have a read of their housing policy in their own website - https://www.sinnfein.ie/housing :-

• Provide rent certainty.
• Introduce a tenant's rights charter.

They are also going to apparently have 20% social housing on all new estates and somehow get 100,000 social houses built by 2030 – "Project 100,000"

Its all populist nonsense, but its just going to make things worse IMO of course, would love them to prove me wrong for the sake of my three kids if nothing else. Time will tell.

dontmindme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119569078#Comment_119569078

That's a piece on Michael McDowell's opinion - whatever that's worth? Do we have any link to an official SF housing policy manifesto?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572699#Comment_119572699

Problem is when you factor in Tax for the average once off landlord that figure halves.

Then when you factor in the increasing risk associated with letting a property that return becomes less attractive especially when you consider the initial outlay.

MakersMark

The question that the Left Wing Ultras can't answer is:

If rents are at an all time high,and it's a great time to be a landord; then why do the facts show that small landlords are fleeing the market?

They just can't understand how the defacto ban on timely eviction for non payment of rent and ASBO has made it uneconomical for landlords to continue.

Couple that with forever tenancies, then how can you expect a small landlord to stay?

Absolutely stupid to think otherwise.

By the way, tax incentives to stay in the market is too little,far too late.

Grumpypants

It is easy to solve. Long-term contracts that both parties agree to, a sustainable tax system, and a quick eviction process through the courts for non-paying tenants.

Fol20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571780#Comment_119571780

A link to what?

News articles have shown that rental supply is decreasing.

Im still waiting for your proposed solution...

arctictree

Isn't a landlord selling only one of two reasons allowed for an eviction? So of course the stats are going to show selling as a huge cause of evictions...

KevRossi

Tax rebates to renters is just another way of approving the massive rents that are in Dublin at the moment.

Building 100,000 homes before 2030 won't even cover the net number of new arrivals from EU countries coming here to work in service industries.

Also building 100,000 will be simply the councils handing over the contract to build to private builders. They will of course build as cheap as possible with as many shortcuts as possible and only self regulation to soothe our worries. When councils stopped building social housing we lost a lot of skills in councils in purchasing, design, engineering etc.

We need a lot of legislation changes before we build 100,000. I'm not knocking them for having the vision, I applaud it. But I'm afraid SF haven't mentioned what they intend changing and what it will look like. The devil is in the detail.

If you want an example of where we are with councils skills in regard to building social housing then look at Priory Hall. 200 apartmets which didn't pass the most basic design for fire protection. 200 apartments, probably €40-50 million worth and they didn't send one inspector out to look at the place for 30 minutes.

We've a long way to go.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119575678#Comment_119575678

The state (and a sizable chunk of the population withal) does not want the current situation to change. How many politicians and bureaucrats are invested in property? Even if they are not, the people making the decisions here, be they politicians or (more likely) civil servants are not desperate people who are constantly being out-bid on sub-400k house of trying to pay rent of 1500-2000 euros a month. A lot of people are doing very well out of this, and as is often said here, turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

Voting in Sinn Fein will solve nothing as the apparatus of the state that has lead us to this disaster will not change. Furthermore, Sinn Fein's policies will not address immigration and the buying up of property for social housing. Indeed, they will compound it, if they have an impact at all.

Realistically, if the housing crisis is to be fixed, all options need to be considered, including those that make certain people uncomfortable such as immigration and social housing. I do not, however, think that this will happen.