planning application for ~200 house estate in coolquay

magicbastarder

i saw this and thought it was quite odd - i would have assumed that estates of this size are generally permitted only in or near towns or villages, due to infrastructure etc., but someone clearly is spending money on hoping to turn a field into a housing estate where the only nearby facilities are a (small!) primary school, a large filling station and the coolquay lodge. case has not been decided yet.

it'd lock anyone living there into car dependency; which i assume would run counter to good planning practice? the planning sign says 358 parking spaces form part of the development.

http://www.coolquayshd.ie/

i've just found these two links, so possibly they've dropped the application from 200 houses to 173? the application on the second link was only lodged a week or two ago

https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/312259

https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/314360

plodder

Wasn't aware of that actually, but I checked and the area there is zoned as a rural village. At least most of the straight section of the R130 between the prison site and the main road is. So, it's effectively the creation of a new village based around the existing school and hotel.

chases0102

Very interesting - mad to think of that area as a 'commuter village!'

Would the build of a one-off house, in this instance as per local needs, be more likely to happen due to such a classification?

magicbastarder

well, i assume a one off house wouldn't be deemed to have any significant impact on local resources, traffic, etc.

a sizable housing estate is essentially creating a small commuter belt town de novo in the above plan.

chases0102

Yeah, absolutely - sorry I wasn't very clear and perhaps should have started a different thread. Engaged a planner recently about building in this area who didn't recommend we pursue it due to very stringent Fingal Planning laws.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119828485#Comment_119828485

One-offs have a disproportionate impact on resources. Much more expensive to provide services to. They are almost dead as a concept and I suspect within ~10 years the local needs equivalent will require you to be within a very close distance of an existing house.

Coolquay has better bus services than most other NCD villages and that would be a major element of why it will be developed up. I think it also has proper sewers already?

magicbastarder

ah yeah, one offs is a bit of a red herring here.

coolquay does have the ashbourne bus already running through it. i'd be completely ignorant of whether the sewers in place would be able to deal with the extra load, i suspect there are fewer than 50 houses within 1km of this development.

regardless of the bus, as mentioned, they're hoping to include 358 parking spaces (unless that changed in a later revision) so clearly expect a lot of car traffic. i just think that it's essentially building a housing estate in a place that doesn't even qualify as a village.

daveville30

Good location though probably 5 minute drive away from finglas Ashbourne and blanch.look at rivermeade basically a council estate in the middle of no where.

magicbastarder

rivermeade is the most bizarrely located housing estate i could think of and wouldn't be built nowadays. probably the worst housing estate you could think of for trapping people into car dependency.

Strumms

Surprised a development of that size is being planned at that location…or am I ? Nothing is surprising much these days.

One thing is there really are not that many amenities out there.

aesthetically too the community, retail and commercial buildings are not very attractive, and the residential units just ‘ok’.

magicbastarder

worth mentioning that ABP have not ruled on it yet; unless the date has changed, the ruling is due on the 5th of december. but you can see the preliminary report (the inspector's report on the '312259' link in my first post) that he's already asking lots of questions; he didn't immediately approve or deny the application - i'm not sure what the standard initial response would be here, perhaps they don't deny permission without giving the developer a chance to respond to crtique - but he has said multiple questions need to be answered before the verdict is given.

e.g.

'In this regard, the application should describe how the development integrates with, and is informed by the existing character, scale and grain of the village. The rationale for the layout of development, including the siting and design of community and commercial elements, and the vision for the future structure of the settlement, should be clearly described'

'the following information should be submitted: ... A Travel Plan / Mobility Management Plan and a statement describing how the proposed development will contribute to sustainable travel patterns and a reduced dependency on the private car.'

magicbastarder

just worth updating - this was refused permission.

chases0102

Do we know on what grounds?

magicbastarder

the last link in the first post contains the refusal details - it's too big in an area which can't support a big estate basically.

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120396143#Comment_120396143

Seems a sensible reason to refuse. A second development near clongriffin was refused permission yesterday which surprised me though since it seemed an ideal place for development.

magicbastarder

gas that they're still clearly typing up the report, printing it out, and scanning it back in to put up on their site.

the_amazing_raisin

I like the whole thing about the council not wanting to put pressure on local services.

It's not like they control the levels of public services available in each area...😏

Of course one might be inclined to wonder why developers can apply to build a mass of houses in an area and the council can't turn around and attach conditions like they have to build a school, crèche, civic center and some shops

daveville30

Wouldn't be a bad area to devolop its probably 10 mins or less away from finglas Blanch and ashbourne.the likes of coolock and Crumlin where out in the sticks not to long ago.

neris

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120397566#Comment_120397566

They use to do that but the builders built the houses and roads 1st and left creches shops etc as an after thought and if they were built were normally left vacant & unfinished for ages and then change of use application to houses or apartments

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410929#Comment_120410929

Yeah there's an estate near me where that happened. It worked out in the end because they got their shops, crèche and school, but there was probably 5 years where there was literally nothing there

A big part of the problem I think is there's no responsibility on the various state bodies to ensure the services actually exist in an area

For example in my area they decided to setup another primary school a few years ago

The county council had a local area plan with a spot marked out for a school. The department of education took that plan and promptly ignored it and chose another spot (in probably the worst place for a new school).

They also requested the school buy the land because it would take too long for the department to do so. The land owners refused to sell because they thought the school should go on the land the council chose

End result, the school is in some portacabins several kilometres from the area it's supposed to serve

Is anyone from the council or department being held responsible for the failure do deliver? No, because as far as they're concerned the school got delivered and any issues are blamed on someone else

Total mess 🙄

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407911#Comment_120407911

it's at least 5km from any other residential development of any note, the only shop nearby is a filling station; and local primary school is a small one (four teachers cover the standard classes from junior infants to sixth class).

they should be creating traffic and other load where there's already developments, not creating new nuclei of them out in the countryside.

the application was also turned down based on the requirement to build a new 6km sewage main to coldwinters, which reflects the concerns about new developments out on their own.