Ministerial Pensions

batman75

Mary O'Rourke, 85, according to wikipedia gets 95k per annum from the state. That's equivalent to what 7 OAPs her age get COMBINED. This isn't a pop at Mary per se just outrage at the level of pensions these people get. Even politicians retire it's still a gravy train. Taoisigh pull in I believe circa 150k. How in gods name do we tolerate this. It was the Robert Troy shenanigans that piqued my interest in what kind of money politicians can earn whether active or not. I chose Mary as she represented Westmeath for decades.

I would cap pensions at 52k pa. Let them source any top up from their huge salaries while active members of DE.

Real Donald Trump

Yet they want paddy mug man to work into their late 70's for a measly 200 a week, kip of a country!

Jim2007

Of course it is a pop at Mary O’Rourke, you singled her out by name. Everyone one knows what the terms of service are for a public representative are just like a barrister, a surgeon a dentist etc, you want any of those rewards you are free to have a go. So if is so easy why don’t you?

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119522853#Comment_119522853

You must be on the gravy train too. OP is making a valuable point and you dismiss it

Firblog

Mary Coughlan has been on 104K + since she turned 50 I think, she's about 55 now, so only another 30+ years pulling in that same amt (index linked to present and future earnings of the tainaiste) so roughly 4 million in pension for 24 years in the Dial...

Alkers

Do TDs get their pension on leaving the da or do they wait until retirement age like ten rest of us?

Why can't they just be on the PS pension like everyone else, their salaries are decent enough as it is.

Geuze

These pensions being quoted here are typically made up of TD pension + Minister pension.

The TD pension is very similar to all public servants pensions, that is 50% of the final salary.

TD wage = 100k, so the TD pension is 50k.

However, the key difference is that a PS needs 40 years worked/in pension scheme to get the max 50% pension.

A Garda or Judge needs 30 years I think.

A TD needs 20 years service to get the max 50% pension.

Zebra3

One rule for them, one rule for us.

xxxxxxl

Are there loopholes for receiving private and public for them ?

brokenangel

Get a job as a TD so

Sick of people complaining about what other people earn or in this case what they get as a pension

Go and do the job if you think they are getting huge money. For a TD you need no degree/no masters. So off you go

id agree that they should accrue the same fraction per year (1/80) of salary as any other public servant and have it paid at retirement age, not before.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119522849#Comment_119522849

Well move out and see how you fair else where… for a start you’ll be paying more in pension contributions and still end up working past current retirement age, welcome to reality!

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119522883#Comment_119522883

Not even remotely close to a valuable point, just one you agree with. Quit whining, you want a bigger lob of money go do something about it, Go run for election, try working your way up the corporate ladder, learn a profession etc… nobody owes you a living.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523069#Comment_119523069

Yes all the labour law that protects your job, while they hold office at the whim of the people.

cruizer101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523518#Comment_119523518

It is perfectly legitimate to question the pay of public servants whilst working another job and having no interest in becoming a TD.

Why on earth do you think only people who have tried to become a TD themselves can question the salaries and pensions they receive.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523485#Comment_119523485

And like every other public servants should they have job security as well?

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523036#Comment_119523036

PS workers or Gardai don't not have to reapply for their job every 5 years or less.

And the success in that reapplication is often out of their own hands depending on how the public feel about their party, the government or the country in general.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523226#Comment_119523226

There is no restrictions on anyone receiving more that one pension but they don’t come on the back of rice crispy boxes, they big trice is to find one.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523549#Comment_119523549

Plus as we seen in the last election, it didn't matter how you performed as a TD for the people who voted you in, we had a revolt election and people just voted for a specific party to pi** of the other parties.

So the TD who has spent a lifetime serving the local community was suddenly out on their ear for no reason

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523031#Comment_119523031

TD gets their work pension at the State Pension age, currently 66.

They used to get it earlier.

Older TDs may be eligible to get it earlier.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523226#Comment_119523226

This question doesn't make sense.

Please elaborate.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523485#Comment_119523485

The TD pension is now paid at the State Pension age, so your second request has happened.

I agree with your first suggestion.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523226#Comment_119523226

If you mean receiving several pensions, that is completely normal.

I myself will receive three pensions.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523873#Comment_119523873

You need to be two years as a Minister/Junior Minister to get a Ministerial pension.

Raven1221

This is a lot of money and I say it is the right thing to do. For high rank person; like the Ministry.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523878#Comment_119523878

If you teach for 5 years, and are a TD for 10 years, then you will get two pensions?

Teaching = (5yr)(1/80) = 5/80 of final salary

TD = (10yr)(1/40) = 20/80 of final salary

I think that's correct?

They hardly get 15 years teacher pension and 10 years TD pension?

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523878#Comment_119523878

How many of those actually exist anymore?

Plus they don't get a pension for "jobs they never worked in". In regards to teaching they have worked in the job and got a full time contract with the department of education is my understanding? then gone in politics

timmyntc

People mention how TDs can "lose their job" every 5 years or so - are there any TDs out there who on failing to get reelected, sat jobless for ages?

No, I didnt think so. The majority of which are already business owners or landlords before even getting elected - I dont think these people need a gold plated pension as some kind of consolation prize. Its a spurious argument from those who seek to defend the gross waste of money culture in the public service.

EOQRTL

The whole public service pension thing is outrageous. It's not just TD's OP. I worked with a lad in my last job as a minibius driver who was a retired Garda at 53 years of age. He'd put in his 30 years of service and walked away with a huge lump sum and 50% of his final weekly wage for a pension every year until he dies. We figured he was on around 1400 the day he retired due to his position in the force so that's 700 euro per week for doing nothing, that's insane.

Now on the other hand the government is going to be soon expecting people in the private sector to keep working until they are almost 70 before receiving a measly 230 per week. Some of these people may have worked all their lives. It stinks to high heaven.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524086#Comment_119524086

Lets take an example of Violet Anne. Does she meet any of the criteria mentioned above?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524168#Comment_119524168

It would be hard to argue that she deserves any compensation, given her record.

Turn the question around - do you believe that Violet-Anne Wynne deserves a TDs pension for her 'hard work' in public office?

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524250#Comment_119524250

Let stick to your original point.

I just used Violet Anne as an example. I have no idea what the circumstances of every TD is and I don't want to know either. But it does confirm the post you made is incorrect.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524250#Comment_119524250

Well of course she deserves a pension for her work as a TD.

Suggesting otherwise is like saying "timmyntc, I don't think you deserve a pension for your last five years work, hard luck".

People think a TDs work is easy, it's not.

You are at the beck and call of your constituents 24*7 365.

If it was easy a lot more people would be trying to do it.

And all that could be to no avail if you don't get re-elected.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524297#Comment_119524297

I am sure if you listed out every TD in government, someone would complain and tell you they don't deserve to be paid.

As I always say if a TD job is so easy then people should become one. No qualification required.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524297#Comment_119524297

If it was easy a lot more people would be trying to do it.

A lot more people ARE trying to do it - look at how many cranks and independents etc run for election every cycle. There is no shortage of candidates, thats for sure.

Suggesting otherwise is like saying "timmyntc, I don't think you deserve a pension for your last five years work, hard luck".

I pay for my pension, its my money invested and paid back to me. I dont get any more back than the value of my investment. TDs pensions are not the same. And Ministerial pensions are something else

spaceHopper

We need good people to be TD's not saying that is working but it has to be well rewarded, comparing it to public sector pay isn't air.

A TD can lose their seat in any election, the government can fall causing a snap election. So 1/80 per a year wouldn't attract many people. Also if you work in the civil service you have a job for life and chances are you can go down to the pub or out for meal with your family and relax. A TD alway has to be on their guard and best behavior, they will regularly get approached by people when out. Look at the Finish PM - she got burned for partying.

The problem is it could probably be paid better. If you work in private sector and run for Dail and win you have to give up your job. If you work in the public sector and become a TD you can take a 5 year leave of absence, which you can keep rolling over, then if you lose your job you get your old one or equivalent back. That's why so many TD's were teachers. We need to encourage more people from private sector to become TDs, doing so is a risk to them so we should pay them well and give them help when they lose their seat.

Of all the problems this country has paying retired politicians isn't a big one.

batman75

According to the Irish Examiner we paid out 20m between lump sums, pensions and other benefits to retired politicians in 2017. If that figure is constant for the past 5 years that 100m.

micosoft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523036#Comment_119523036

Can any of those other jobs get voted out at the whim of the electorate? No?

20 years is an astonishing amount of time in Public Service - four elections.

There are many things we could improve with our governance but i'm not convinced reducing pay is one of them.

Mirafiori

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524760#Comment_119524760

I don't think there have ever been four successive Dail terms that went to the full five years. You would need to have been elected at least five times.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524863#Comment_119524863

Fairly sure 92-11 may be the longest four term stretch and the 92-97 bit is still many months short of five years. Further back you could have five elections in ten!

touts

Don't forget Ivan Yeats. Ran off to Wales and declared bankruptcy leaving hundreds of employees and suppliers seriously out of pocket. After a year he came back debt clear and 100k a year in his back pocket from his ministerial pension which was never touched to help the people he shafted.

spaceHopper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524695#Comment_119524695

We took in 50,620 million in 2017 so that 0.04% give or take.

Quitelife

Hard to know how long more Public Sector Defined Benefit pensions generally can be continued, practically all private sector workers are on DC pension arrangements.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524760#Comment_119524760

Paying politicians well also disincentives corruption.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524695#Comment_119524695

What percentage is that spend in the overall government spend over 5 years?

Time for heads on pikes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523544#Comment_119523544

other public servants are subject to different performance measures and qualifications

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524897#Comment_119524897

For what percentage of the population?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523445#Comment_119523445

We are their employers. We have a right to want their pension payments reduced if we are of that opinion. They are very happy to jump on nurses, teachers etc.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524540#Comment_119524540

There is no general entitlement to leave of absence to become a TD. Civil servants cant be politically active in any way. Teachers and public servants can apply for leave of absence, approval is done case by case.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524909#Comment_119524909

Pay politicians poorly and you are basically ensuring that you either get candidates who are:

1) so rich that the poor pay doesn't bother them

2) enticed by the opportunities for corruption and how they can use that to enrich themselves so that the poor pay doesn't matter

3) so incompetent that they'd never manage to get a well-paid job anyway so aren't missing out on much

4) a combination of the above

Paying politicians well doesn't guarantee you avoid 1-4 above - but it opens the possibility of getting capable people interesting in politics as a career also.

The old saying goes "pay peanuts, get monkeys" - the extension of that is that paying peanuts plus a healthy pile of cash will also get monkeys applying, but should hopefully get a few decent candidates too