Newbie landlords

Gaz1977

I’ve been living in the U.K. donkeys years and have a few rental properties in London. Tories have squeezed landlords hard in recent years and many are exiting the market. I understand many landlords in Ireland are exiting the sector too but, at first glance, it looks attractive to me in terms of ROI at least, (compared to South of England).

A few questions:

• Are interest only BTL mortgages available in Irish Republic?

• What view are Irish lenders likely to take of landlords based in U.K. ?

• Who are the main BTL lending specialists in Ireland?

• Is mortgage interest tax deductible?

• Is tax done on a self assessment basis?

• I’m hearing horror stories about the challenges of evicting problem tenants? True or false?

• What are the best online resources for Irish landlords?

Forget all the other queries and focus on the eviction process. Yes, it is true. Thanks to our tenant focused legislation, it can take up to 2 yrs to remove a tenant who stops paying rent. The most popular political party in Ireland want to bring in a ban on evictions, including when you want to sell your property. There is good reason why over 5000 landlords have exited the market already this year.

Go to Vegas my friend, at least you will have fun while watching your investment go pear shaped.

jo187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058258477/newbie-landlords

I can only speak as a Tennant but Just want to counter what the previous poster said.

You get a lot on boards about evictions etc. Kinda gives off the vibe that Irish Tennants are bad etc. Just like with landlords there are bad Tennants but most are good. People are desperate for housing most pay in time and keep house clean etc

Wanderer78

property markets are now extremely high risk, for both tenents and landlords, both are being deeply exposed, this is a global phenomenon, since we ve all followed each other into a financialised mess, and we ve all decided the best thing to do is point the finger, rather than try to bang our heads together to try resolve it, as a functioning property market is essential, for everyone....

best of luck op, its a mine field out there, supply is one of our main problems here, and that aint gonna be solved anytime soon, soooooooo......

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058258477/newbie-landlords

Interest only BTL mortgages are not in the Irish market. You may get an interest only period at the start of the mortgage, but all providers will expect capital repayments. Also note Maximum LTV is 70% on buy2let mortgages and buy2let mortgage rates are also higher (circa 5% before ECB starts raising rates).

I cant see a problem for Irish lenders having an UK based account holder. I would get a mortgage broker involved given this is not a standard application.

All the "High Street Banks" do Buy2Let. Again, I would go to a mortgage broker.

Mortgage interest is tax deductible. Note there is withholding tax on non-resident landlords, and a requirement to complete tax returns in Ireland as well as the UK.

Tax is on a self assessment basis.

The majority of tenants are good honest people, who treat the property they live in with respect and pay their rent on time etc.. However, if you catch a bad one..... you're in BIG trouble. A legal eviction process can take over 2 years (even when no rent is being paid), and add in legal costs and most likely property damage as well. In practical terms, there is no recourse to the tenant through the courts. In case you think you can avoid this by selecting only well-paid professional tenants, there are laws (and big fines) preventing discrimination against social welfare recipients. As bad as things are now, most politicians and media are calling for more pro-tenant protections - including a complete ban on evictions altogether. This is the reason rents are high and yields are high. If you get stung, its a nightmare.

Boards is a pretty good resource.

There are very very few new landlords prepared to go swimming in these shark infested waters and lots of existing landlords getting out. Check out the number of Buy2Let mortgages drawn down in Ireland in recent years - there is a reason its so low.

jo187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119461932#Comment_119461932

The reason for high rents is greed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119464837#Comment_119464837

Only if you don’t understand what an investment is.

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119464837#Comment_119464837

Of course, its all to do with greed ..... I got out of the game a couple of years ago as I just couldn't take the moral torture of all that excessive profit. Soon, there will be no landlords, no rentals and no more greed - how happy we all will be.

Gaz1977

Thanks. Very informative. How does withholding tax work?

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119465447#Comment_119465447

Greed 😂

This link may help, but maybe get independent tax advice:

Part 45-01-04 - Taxation of non resident landlords (revenue.ie)

jo187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119465439#Comment_119465439

You said high rent is due to bad Tennants? Care to explain?

jo187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119464957#Comment_119464957

Because profit and greed are two things that never interweave?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119465684#Comment_119465684

People invest with the aim of profiting. Charging market rate is not greed, it is being paid what the market will bear.

jo187

But the market can't bear it. People are homeless, on the verge of it or barley getting by without any hope of it getting better.

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119465680#Comment_119465680

A bad tenant could cost a Landlord 50,000 pus in lost rent, legal costs and property damage. In spite of the common view that Landlords are all rich toffs, most are ordinary Joes with one rental property. Think of it from your own point of view, could you afford a 50k hole in your family finances over the next 2 years? When your tenant is not paying, the bank still expect the mortgage to be paid. This is a risk which is simply too big for a small landlord to take, so many sell up to avoid the risk and many more wont become landlords because they cant afford the risk.

Less landlords = Less places to rent(Less supply) = bigger prices for renting what properties are on the market.

All decent tenants (the majority) pay a premium to cover the risk caused by bad tenants.

Getting rid of this risk (having an efficient way to evict a bad tenant), would do more to encourage more small landlords to stay/join the market than any tax reform you can think of. More supply would do more to help spiraling rents than any rent control measure you can think of. In stead, we want to hold on to the nutty 2 year trip around the RTB merry-go-round and watch more and more small landlords head for the exit doors with nutty levels of rent getting higher as a result.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119465782#Comment_119465782

But the market is bearing it! Methinks that you might not understand markets

jo187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119465965#Comment_119465965

OK so there no homeless people? Or people struggling to pay rent or getting help from the government

Me thinks you are a tosser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119465782#Comment_119465782

If every property is rented, then the market can bear it.

Methinks you don’t understand market economics.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119466103#Comment_119466103

That people are homeless or struggling has no bearing on the market at the moment as there is restricted supply. In a world of less demand and more supply rents will fall. Where we are now however is more demand and less supply.

It is basic supply and demand curves. The market reacts to the circumstances and reaches an equilibrium at the level it can support itself.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119466103#Comment_119466103

Then govt should house them.

It's got nothing to do with the private market.

jo187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119470372#Comment_119470372

Well it does. Because the situation is people who are working can't afford rent. How can a society function if the people in it can't afford basics like a room over there head?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119473441#Comment_119473441

What % of people working are homeless?

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119473441#Comment_119473441

If they cannot afford rent then they are not part of the market. That is the bit you do not seem to get. When supply increases then rents will fall and then (maybe) the people you are discussing will be included.

But yes it is a crap (and ridiculous) situation that housing should be expensive in Ireland. We have more land than we know what to do with so should have the cheapest housing in Western Europe

Puma21

Hoping I can get some opinions/feedback from those of you with more experience with house letting. I have a 3 bedroom house in the middle of Portlaoise -well maintained with back garden- now thinking of letting it (I relocated to my home house since covid) – I work full time and cannot be dealing with tenant's phone calls etc. Would going through a letting agency be worth it? I understand their charges etc – would also need them to look after any issues /repairs etc and do they do a proper vetting on tenants-? or are they a waste of time .All opinions welcome. TIA

Please remove if any content does not follow policy

Puma unless you need to keep the house, sell it, prices may never be higher and the risks associated with letting have the potential to break your heart. Sinn Fein, if they get into Government have proposed introducing a ban on evictions even if you want to sell your house. So once the tenant has Part 4 rights after 6 months occupancy, you may never be able to get them out.

If you are going to rent, remember, bad tenants will not tell you they are bad tenants at interview, they all look sound starting off.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119475104#Comment_119475104

The 'vetting' is a waste of time ime as I have had nightmare tenants that were supposedly vetted. You could do as good a job vetting them yourself as paying someone to do it

Puma21

Hi all,

Quick question. What are the other options to selling a house other than going through an auctioneer or doing it yourself. TIA

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119484346#Comment_119484346

Is this a trick question?

paulieeye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119484346#Comment_119484346

Raffle like those lads in Kerry did!

The Student

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119475104#Comment_119475104

if you are serious about letting your property don't use a letting agent to manage it. If you have someone you can trust use them. Letting agents don't always get the best tradesmen to deal with issues.

A word of advice before you make your decision to rent out your property. This is a business transaction pure and simple. Are you mentally strong enough to deal with troublesome tenants or make decisions with your head rather than your heart. Would you evict a non paying tenant if they were a family? Hopefully you wont ever need to but you should have it in your head you might need to.

Being a landlord is not easy money despite what people think. For the majority of landlords they don't have to deal with any major problems (and hopefully you would be one of them) but you have to be sure you will be able if you get a rogue tenant or have to make difficult decisions.

I am not trying to scare you I am just giving you something to think about to help with your decisions. I am a landlord of 14 yrs and have nipped things in the bud before they got out of hand.

The Student

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119473441#Comment_119473441

The State is expecting the market to house those it should be housing. The market is reacting which is exactly what all markets do. When market conditions change the participants of that market react accordingly ie some sell up.

The more difficult the market is made the more participants will remove property from the market as the risk v reward will not warrant remaining.

Ask yourself a question. Would you continue working where the conditions of employment were constantly changing and you could do nothing about them?

jo187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119484922#Comment_119484922

I'm not really sure what your point is? Some people are getting out because they don't want the trouble others can make massive money now by selling and others are still in the game.

The future is massive landlords and little ones being squeezed out.

Puma21

Hi.

Honestly not a trick question. New to this so just looking for opinions from people who sold property.

Thanks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485012#Comment_119485012

Some think renting is best left to “professional”/corporate providers, I now tend to agree.

Puma21

Thank you,

I have been hearing alot of people saying the same thing , at this point might sell as I don't have the time or need the hassle.

The Student

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485012#Comment_119485012

My point is that a society needs to support some people for housing (and always had to) but the State has stopped building it's own properties.

These people should never be in the rental market which is distorting the market.

Landlords are business people not deliverers of social services (housing in this instance).

Mic 1972

Is the eviction ban really being pushed tho or is it just speculation?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119486306#Comment_119486306

Speculation at the stage, but reality after next election if SF are in Government.

redarmyblues

I had a peek at the Eurostat figures and according to those Irish housing is among the most affordable in Europe and is the least overcrowded, most debate on housing in Ireland is driven by emotion and anecdote rather that data.

Housing cost overburden rate [TESPM140]

Share of housing costs in disposable household income, by type of household and income group - EU-SILC survey [ILC_MDED01__custom_3216168]

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20220616-1#:~:text=In%202020%2C%2017.5%25%20of%20the,family%20situation%20and%20their%20ages.

mitresize5

A ban on evictions is likely unconstitutional and would be advised as so by the Attorney General. If it came in it would be immediately challenged by the REIT's

All bluster and populism by SF

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119465965#Comment_119465965

If the market was bearing it, we wouldn't be having a few billion of taxpayers money needed to prop it up!!!!!!

Remove all of the indirect subsidies to landlords and let the market bear what it can then.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489491#Comment_119489491

By the same token RPZ and rent caps should be unconstitutional as they limit what an individual can charge for a service, but they were still introduced. So don’t be so sure about bans on evictions.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119487395#Comment_119487395

Net of social welfare.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489575#Comment_119489575

That is a consequence of the lack of supply. I don't think govt intervention has helped the issue at all. It would be better if they kept out of it as all HAP does is provide a base rental rate

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489590#Comment_119489590

You may be interested to know that there was a successful challenge to the Rent Restrictions Act of 1960 back in the early 1980's.

Regardless, property rights are not absolute

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489694#Comment_119489694

That is the point. It raises what the market level is beyond what a free one could bear.

Could the market bear bus ticket prices of 200 Euro one-way from Dublin to Cork? You would say no. But have a situation where a large chunk of the population get their 200 Euro tickets paid for by the State and you'd find the market would indeed "bear" it!

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489708#Comment_119489708

Hmmm. Not sure about that. It would be interesting to see though

redarmyblues

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489708#Comment_119489708

The first question I have is what % of RTB registered tenancies are supported by HAP?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119491113#Comment_119491113

Well the number for the total amount injected into the market by the State was over 1bn last year. 2,000 Euro each when averaged across every man, woman and child in the country.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40888892.html

Let's take that 1bn out and let's see what the market can bear in reality.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119491145#Comment_119491145

You and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of things but we agree on that...

Not that they would actually do it they've gone do far down the rabbit hole now......

Donald Trump

(200 not 2000)