Who ARE all these rich people?

JDD

I grew up in a nice area of Dublin in the 1980's/90's. As far as I was aware, back then, the areas of Dublin that had super rich people were Ballsbridge, Dalkey/Killiney, Foxrock, Howth and bits of Terenure. That was it really. I mean, there were lots of nice suburbs, but the people who lived there lived mostly like everyone else - shopped in Dunnes, holidayed in Ireland etc etc.

Over the past ten years, I've uncovered lots more areas of Dublin that seem to have these massive mansions, off the beaten track. And I don't mean your Malahide's with all the new million plus estates. I mean areas that have vast swathes of massive period mansions.

I lived in Blackrock for a time, and happened upon a road while out walking one day called Avoca Road. The whole road is like literally 1970's massive detached houses on lots of land. Then when I was learning to drive I happened up Rathmichael. Holy Sh*t, it's like Foxrock but bigger and like some sort of cult, because until then I never even knew that suburb existed. Look at myhome.ie, every house in Rathmichael is €1.3m or more. Then I moved to Stepaside and there's more of these detached period houses.

Who ARE all these people? What do they do for a living that they can afford these houses? I mean, I can kind of get it now, but who were they 40/50 years ago when Ireland was in the middle of a decades long stagnation? Were they Anglo-Irish? I thought the doctors, lawyers and company owners basically made up Ailesbury Road/Rathgar/Foxrock. Were there really so many of them that that's who was occupying all these other mansions? I'm just fascinated by it all. I always thought of Ireland as relatively classless, or at least up near the top. We didn't have the WASP culture of the US, or the aristocracy of the UK. Or perhaps we did, they were just a lot more subtle???

SuperBowserWorld

People buying and selling properties at the right time in 90s, 00s and 10s AND couples on good salaries and careers.

Remember for everyone who "lost" during the property boom, there was those who did very well.

JDD

... double post

bureau2009

I enjoy walking in the suburbs but I am really curious as to who lives in all the million euro homes (and multiples thereof). WHO are these people, how did they get there and what do they work at?

Donald Trump

Feck off OP. Stick to your own area and stop driving through mine.

We don't want the likes of you driving through and bringing down the values

You weren't aware that we exist simply because we wouldn't be caught dead in the places you frequent. We go, instead, to the other places that wouldn't let you in

Feckin' plebs.

JDD

Exactly that bureau2009.

I mean, I understand who lives in all these fab houses now. Consultants, senior counsel, partners at law firms, company owners, property developers, tech firm directors and those high up in the finance/hedge fund/aviation finance industry.

What I don't get is that very little of these massively rich people existed in the 60's and 70's. A bit of the leftover landed gentry, some doctors and lawyers and that was it. Or so I thought. Like, all these massive houses that I have come across are not new - they're definitely more than 50 years old and some more than 100 I would expect. Who were all these people in the 60's and 70's that could afford houses like that?

The Mighty Quinn

Have often wondered the same walking around parts of Limerick. Lots of semi hidden huge houses with huge gardens in the city suburbs. Houses with gate lodges etc.

I assume at this point most are kept within the family, that those living in them inherited from parents or whatnot.

Dual income household here with two 'good' incomes, nothing crazy but on paper looks like we should have more than we do, we've a pokey three bed semi. With childcare costs for two, can't imagine who these people are buying these huge expensive places. More power to them, but honestly I'm a little envious!

dxhound2005

There are hundreds of thousands of millionaires in Ireland. Nobody should be surprised that some of them live in big houses.

JDD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119385408#Comment_119385408

😄I am VERY tempted to walk through Rathmichael with my hair scraped up with the scrunchie, carrying three full Iceland bags.

whippet

not everyone earns just the 'average industrial wage' .. middle management in big Pharma / tech would attract salaries of €200k plus ... along with stock options etc ... have two good earners in the family and €1m - €2m properties are very affordable.

I know a few people who also sold businesses they started in the last decade or so for very princely sums ... it's not all doom and gloom out there

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119385428#Comment_119385428

Senior civil servants, small business owners could afford those types of houses back then. George Hook lives in Foxrock off the back of his catering business (that wasn't ever particularly succesful) plus his wifes academic salary of the time.

zg3409

Those with highly paid jobs, those who paid of their mortgages in the 70,s, 80s, 90s, particularly those with no kids or kids fully grown up. Often they are running a business or self employed.

Doctors, lawyers, computer programmers and those in high tech such as the Intel's or medical pharma industries. Those working for multinationals, those where both parents are in highly paid jobs. Often inheritance where grand parents died and some have shares and investments in properties, companies, bank shares, bitcoins, traders. They may have multiple properties in multiple countries maybe rented out or long term let's. Some may have owned farms or land that was sold for housing. They own whole apartment blocks or have invested in commercial property.

In many cases they were born with silver spoons in their mouths and helped on to the property ladder early, possibly given their first house by parents. Some may have made their money abroad working hard in low cost countries. Some are "old money" where they don't flaunt their wealth versus new money where they buy flashy bright cars and want to be seen. The reality is it's probably other people working hard to make them money, they make money while sleeping (on investments etc) , they can spread their risk over multiple industries and have money managers to minimise their taxes and invest in low tax areas such as forestry. Some of these people barely work others work incredibly hard or are even workaholics.

Even plasterers, brickies, electricians can be on serious money if they work wisely and invest correctly. Certain jobs are paying double or quadruple what they should be due to shortages and supply and demand. E.g. Try and even get a plumber to show up at any cost.

Pissy Missy

How do I meet one of these bachelor millionaires 😆

Mrs OBumble

What is this work thing of which you speak?

Really OP, if you have to consider the price of a property, you cannot afford it.

SuperBowserWorld

The past 30 years in Ireland have been boom times for people who were financially savvy and in in stable relationships, with little or no mental or physical family health problems.

People who were in the right industries and who didn't spend their time or money on alcohol, drugs, porn, video games, infedility, social media, ...

e.g they used the Internet as a resource to advanced themselves financially and not as a rabbit hole of distraction or addiction.

Now, this requires a lot of discipline and a huge interest in acquiring and maintaining money.

Also, there are people who just got extremely lucky with bitcoin, property, etc

Me, I've no interest in money and/or can't sustain an interest in investing etc. Also I've succumbed to some of those issues outlined above.

Also, I'm from a large Catholic Irish working class background that has a contempt and/or a distrust of wealth.

We didn't get the contraceptives are ok and greed is good memo the middle class and upper class Catholics got 😂😂😂

retalivity

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119385428#Comment_119385428

These houses weren't millions in the 70's, they would have been 'relatively' affordable to people in good jobs at the time. I know a few people who bought houses in a south dublin suburb in the early 90s for £35-40k punts, houses are now worth €750k. Wages to house value was probably 1:3 at the time, whereas now its 1:7 or more. These people are now all paper millionaires, but they probably couldnt buy the same house today without having an asset of similar value to use against it. The likes of Rathmicheal, the massive houses are probably owned by the farmers/people who used to own the land that all the estates in south dublin were built on. Looking at old maps, there was never much houses there up until the last 20 years or so

Sleepy

Having some exposure to Clontarf (I lived there for 6 years and still have many friends there), a lot of those big houses would have been bought in the 70's/80's by people who were quietly doing pretty well for themselves at the time. House prices would have been relatively lower to incomes and if you were in a professional job or running a successful small business, they'd have been more affordable if a nice house in a nice area was a priority for you.

There'd be a generation between them and those looking to buy now but a big difference in lifestyle too: many of the houses wouldn't have seen a new kitchen or much in the way of renovations, foreign holidays wouldn't have been the norm and the family car would have been driven until it died or rusted away, a take away would have been a treat to be enjoyed once a month with a sit-down meal in a restaurant happening a couple of times a year to mark a family occasion such as an anniversary or a child's communion etc.

Those who bought there since the 90's would live much flasher lifestyles: their houses more likely to have undergone major renovations, two cars in the drive unlikely to be more than 5 years old and higher prestige brands, multiple foreign holidays a year, regular nights out to nice restaurants, designer clothing etc.

It's still visible quite visible in the demographics of the area in my experience. The truly wealthy ones (old family money or the entrepreneurial of those that managed to buy there in the 70s/80's and invested well over the years - frequently in property resulting in them now being multi-millionaires on paper at least) still tend to live much more modest lifestyles than those who've bought there in more recent times and who might only be two missed paycheques away from defaulting on the mortgage.

Ray Palmer

A lot of these huge houses were in a terrible state for decades and then were done up as they were sold. I remember there were tons of huge empty houses in Clontarf. Many a teenage night spent in them. We weren't idiots who smashed them up so nobody really noticed us.

I went to a college friends house in Dalkey and he lived in an absolute mansion. He showed me around and I asked what about the rest of the house? He casually said he hasn't been in parts of it and he didn't know if anybody had even been in some rooms for over 50 years. Couldn't believe he hadn't even explored his own home.

Another women from college lived in another huge house with her mother. She had inherited some 30 years earlier and never lived in it but after the husband died they were "forced" to move in and quite limited in their funds. It was full of antiques and historical family paintings. The mother reaslised with house prices the way they were she could sell it and buy a nice modern house and have a bit of money for the future. While they were clearing out the house they found the contents were worth even more than the house. Then they started finding "hidden" things like the massive old curtains didn't have lead weights in them but gold coins. Eventually they did sell the house but 10 years later after going through the entire building to check they found everything.

Ush1

I worked in a massive estate in Rathmichael around 2000 with my dad, house had a cinema, helipad, orchard etc... It was a couple who were both solicitors who owned it.

BrianD3

First rule of fight club is...

Who was living in big houses in good areas of Dublin 40 or 50 years ago, that's the 1980s and 1970s which, while a long time ago is still fairly relatable.

if I think of my own family, my father's side was moderately wealthy and my mother's side poor but several uncles and first cousins on both side have done very well for themselves. My cousins are all considerably older than me, several are successful in business with I suspect wealth into 8 figures. They have been living in big houses since the 1980s.

Another older relative, also a businesssman, had wealth close to 9 figures (and that's just what went through probate) when he died in the 1990s. The house he lived in would probably be worth a relatively modest 1.5 million today, but he could easily have lived in a much more lavish house from the 1960s on.

There is plenty of wealth in this country, inherited wealth and from businesses. Farmers are almost invariably asset rich and their children may pay very little capital acquisitions tax when they inherit as CAT for farmland is reduced by 90% if certain conditions are met. There is also a dwelling house exemption from CAT which the wealthy will take full advantage of if they can. A person can inherit a family home of ANY value and pay zero tax if they meet the conditions for dwelling house exemption. Some of the current inhabitants of those house you are seeing may have modest jobs and have inherited. They may struggle to pay the property tax.

Thelonious Monk

My aunt and uncle bought a place on Coliemore Rd in Dalkey in the 80s, she wasn't working and he was a tradesman who grew up in council housing nearby. Sold it in the 00s Tiger years and downsized, made a fortune. It needed loads of work but still, things like this are total fantasy now.

The whole south coast of Dublin and a KM or two inwards are houses that mere mortals could never afford nowadays, unless you're very highly paid or there's old money in the family.

It really is astonishing though when you think about the amount of rich people that must live in Ireland.

In the 60s and 70s from people I knew

How many pubs in Dublin and the greater Dublin areas? A pub would make you a millionaire in those days I know that for a fact.

There was a lot more cash around and people paid in cash so the country often appeared to be poorer that it was, official and unofficial Ireland.

Small to medium builders, owned road companies, owned haulage companies, kitchen companies, small engineering companies, wheeler dealers of various sorts usually property but other areas as well, doctors, vets, solicitors, stud farms, old money people referred to as Colonel something or other. I am sure there were lots of others too.

JDD

Hmmm, you might be right about Rathmichael, hence why I had never heard of it growing up. It makes sense that there was a cohort of people that sold land in the 90's and would have had enough to build massive houses.

And yes, I get that the big mansions might have been dilapidated on the inside in the 80's/90's as there simply would not be enough high income people to do up those houses, even if they were living in them.

I had just got the sense that there was this whole hidden upper class in Ireland in the 70's/80's/90's that lived in these massive houses and yet weren't as visible socially as "society" in the UK or the US. And I wondered whether they kept their heads down as SuperBowser pointed out, because the vast majority of Irish catholics associated wealth with the Brits and "notions". But perhaps there wasn't some Illuminati-esque inner circle, just a bunch of people that happened to inherit these houses but were not particularly richer than someone living in a semi-d in Blackrock.

Leg End Reject

Traditionally bank managers, senior civil servants, senior army personnel, solicitors, doctors etc. could afford them. As mentioned above houses were more affordable then.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119385647#Comment_119385647

You are putting modern notions into your observations, people did not live public lives the way they do now, nor did people reflect on themselves the way they do now, I have a friend from a large family all her brothers went as borders to a very well-known fee-paying school but to them, that was just the way it was they didn't go around saying we're rich, they were not rich any way they were well off with family money. The world of Ross O'Carroll Kelly didn't exist that sort of thing only emerged in the 1990s

Ray Palmer

It is all very different now. We sold my grand mothers ex-corpo house to an architect on either side of them are the grandchildren of the original residents.

I know a very senior board member of a very well known IT consultancy firm and he lives in Edenmnore. Some of the contractors and staff live in way nicer areas in much larger houses. The property prices in the 90s really shook up things. Friend sold a small house in East Wall and was able to buy a large house in Raheny and still have a mortgage half our size. They bought their house 4 years before we did but that was how much a difference it made

SuperBowserWorld

It's really easy to make money or lose it.

The Internet is still a gold mine if you are healthy, have access to wealth/finance and are wise, relatively intelligent and confident.

Looking back, and minus issues I meantioned before anyone of the following opportunities were available to me:

- crypto

- property flipping

- high tech investments, day trading

- career in a FAANG company

- career hop up the ladder

- social media promotion

- start internet company

The world was going to end in 2001 (dot com bust, 9/11), 2008 (property bust), 2020 (covid) ..

There are people in their 20s pulling in 6 figure + salaries and just getting started.

I think it takes a huge amount of discipline and sacrifice but it's not rocket science. Scientists don't earn much. 😂

but will you be happy with this lifestyle?

JDD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119385670#Comment_119385670

Well see this is my question. One grandfather was an engineer, he bought a semi-d in Terenure. The other was a bank manager, he bought a 3-bed terraced house in Sandymount. My Dad was a senior civil servant, he bought a four bed period house in Sandymount.

But these houses I'm talking about are another level. Six bedroom, tennis courts, horse stables, servants quarters types of houses. Not the types of houses you'd expect the typical professional in Ireland could afford in the 70's. Doctors, lawyers and company owners maybe, but was there so many of them that they ran out of houses in Foxrock/Dalkey/Terenure? I doubt it.

It makes sense that there was a few types who bought these houses - windfall farmers, cash-economy tradesmen, and cash-poor inheritors. Perhaps the reason you didn't hear about them that much was less a "they just got on with things" and more a "perhaps we shouldn't draw attention to our money". All that said, there appears to have been far more rich people in Ireland (or in Dublin anyway) 50 years ago than we have been led to believe by our dilapidated tax income at the time. And the lead-on from that is that there are far more families with asset wealth than I initially expected. Perhaps more of the wealth in Dublin has been given by a leg up by the parents rather than hard entrepreneurial graft that they would have you believe. Just something to ponder.

Mister Vain

I've often wondered the same thing about all the mansions in Kildare. There are loads of them here. Even the new so called "affordable houses" in Maynooth are very expensive and many have brand new Tesla's and BMW's parked outside them.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119385795#Comment_119385795

I do have a new XBox Series X. 😂😂

And I beat myself up about buying that.

I've 14 year old second hand Toyota outside. It's embarrassing the mother in law. Which is why I still have it, plus I don't drive anywhere much. 😂

Edit

I have an absolute terrible inbuilt fear of debt, so maybe that's why.

mazdamiatamx5

An acquaintance whose parents live in Ailesbury Road (not in one of the mansions, they were renting an apartment while in the course of trading down) had a funny anecdote. Their dog went missing and to help them out she went knocking on doors in the locale. She said behind closed doors a lot of the houses are quite run-down and could do with some decorating.

Life has changed a huge amount too.

One of my sisters is married to a man who comes from a large family they all became professionals, some are very well off, the father had a skilled job but the thing is to buy a house where my brother-in-law grew up would cost a million today. The chance of a skilled worker buying a house there today is very very small.

Mister Vain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119385851#Comment_119385851

Speaking of not driving much, most of them seem to be working from home as their cars are always in the driveways. I sometimes think they're all bitcoin miners or making serious money from OnlyFans. Jaysus I have too much time on my hands. 🤣

Glaceon

Lisa Stansfield was one, she lived in Dalkey for a long time.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119385881#Comment_119385881

Forgot about OnlyFans

Also, travel around the world with some poor cat dressed in dolls clothing for the likes on tiktok.

Stream videogames.

Endless money to be made 😁

Ray Palmer

https://myhome.ie/residential/brochure/the-battery-sandycove-point-sandycove-co-dublin/4623596

You can see easily here somebody owning a very large valuable property but it isn't a millionaire's lifestyle or surroundings. It is closer to living in a shack

DOCARCH

My mother's only explanation for all the wealth (big houses/fancy cars) was drug dealing!

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386032#Comment_119386032

Have to say I’d be mortified if my mother was a drug dealer.

Ush1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119385773#Comment_119385773

Lots of it is inherited of course. I worked with a guy who was in sales in an IT consultancy. Sorta Tim nice but dim vibes. He left randomly then and I asked someone about it. Turns out he was the fourth Earl of somewhere and the family owned loads of industrial units that they rented and he was now going to be looking after them. Another chap I work with, he's probably late twenties and from Monaghan. His da bought him a place worth millions in Sandymount. Da owns a haulage company, would never know any of it to speak with him.

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119385856#Comment_119385856

You often see that when large houses in expensive areas go on the market. Kitchens not changed in 50 years.

Enjoying the thread as I’ve often wondered about this myself. For me it’s Dartry. My jaw was dropping when I, only fairly recently was wandering around there and looking at the houses. There was a hell of a lot of wealth in this country.

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386032#Comment_119386032

Well it’s never PAYE workers anyway.

growleaves

'Wages to house value was probably 1:3 at the time, whereas now its 1:7 or more.'

Its 1:9 in Dublin now and less outside.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119385420#Comment_119385420

Ha I've finally sussed your real identity CHARLES O'CARROLL KELLY

You're only a Trump wannabe

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387412#Comment_119387412

Don't mind that poor imitation. He wishes he was me.

But then, so does everyone.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387216#Comment_119387216

Fella from a border county with a "haulage business".

Haulage used to be a fairly good earner up in those parts for some reason ...........

gary550

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119385870#Comment_119385870

That's the reality of it

If you look in any well established wealthy area a lot of the people are millionaires by circumstances rather than income (I.E bought at the right time, now worth a lot more).

If we brought in a property tax system similar to some states in the US there would be a considerable amount of people fxcked

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386032#Comment_119386032

All my local drug dealers live in their ma's box room, I see the standard of living for drug dealers has reduced dramatically in that case. Maybe they should consider unionisation!

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058255983/who-are-all-these-rich-people

Ireland was not in stagnation all the time.

The 1960s and 1970s saw strong economic growth.

swimming in a sea

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119385597#Comment_119385597

The curtains with the gold weights was in an episode of Lovejoy, so must have happened a few times in these big houses.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119385568#Comment_119385568

I had an aunt who bought a big house in Clontarf in the 70's. She was a teacher. Husband wouldn't have been on much more money. They did have foreign holidays. She loved flying to the US to visit relatives although I will say it was less frequent back then. Looking at the street now there's plenty of houses being sold for close to a million and some for a lot more.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119385795#Comment_119385795

It's the same all over the place. New builds for 600k,700k or more. And they're snapped up. I lived in maynooth until last year and those places are so out of my league.

JDD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387603#Comment_119387603

Well true, but we were coming from a very very low base. And when the recession hit in the early eighties we had to massively up our tax rates, which leads me to believe that we did not have enough taxes coming in to cover basic government services. So even with the economic growth, we weren't awash with cash.

I just remember asking my parents where were the really posh suburbs when they were growing up/got married. And they said that Ailesbury Road (and surrounds), Foxrock, Killiney and Rathgar/Dartry/Terenure was where the real well off people lived, but that was it. Sandymount, half of Ballsbridge (the non-embassy end), Ranelagh etc, was bedsitter land. Blackrock, Booterstown and all the way out to Bray (except for Killiney) was bog standard family houses. There was a vague notion that some Anglo-Irish lived in big houses in Kilternan, and there were some richer horse breeders out towards Kildare, but that was it.

Now I get that back in the day you could get a four bed detached house in somewhere like Stepaside or Loughlinstown with a decent wage, because they were quite far out and public transport was pretty useless. But I didn't expect the manor houses with big driveways. There's loads of houses out here in stepaside that have a big gate and driveway, and you can't even see the house. Look at the houses near Malahide Castle too - not the new ones, the old mansions. And there's more of them out by Rathfarnham, Mount Venus Road and the like.

It seems there were plenty of places in Dublin in the 60's/70's/80's that you could buy a massive posh house on the down low. If someone saw your address as Ailesbury Road or Killiney, they'd immediately know you had money. But Rathfarnham? Sandyford? Not at all.