The Irish Times and its commentary on femicide

mazdamiatamx5

The Irish Times devoted a lot of column inches recently to commemorating women who died in Ireland of murder and manslaughter in the last 30 years or so. Obviously, all of these women deserve commemoration, but it seems there is a lack of context, vis-a-vis:

(1) There is a lack of comparative date ranking Ireland against other countries on a per capita basis in relation to femicide.

(2) The male suicide rate in Ireland is much higher than female.

(3) Similarly, victims of murder, manslaughter and most types of violent crime in Ireland are disproportionately male

(4) Recent indications that a woman who died after an assault was herself convicted of manslaughter seem to put the implication that any female victims of crime are automatically sweet holy sweet angels into sharp focus

(5) Several cases of infanticide where the female perp was essentially treated as a vulnerable person by the media commentary

(6) Very lenient sentencing in relation to some female perps, including in relation to a female traitor and self-admitted terrorist.

So the question I have is why is the Irish Times trying to portray my country as a horrible misogynistic s.hithole, when we are if anything the opposite and in fact a country were women and men suffering oppression overseas flee to? Seems a bit weird for the self-styled 'paper of record'.

Leg End Reject

It's a popular issue so gets clicks. There are some modern feminists who seem to have a victim mentality and their aim appears to be to subjugate men. Superiority, rather than equality.

Calls for Irish men to require a license to socialise after Ashling Murphy was murdered demonstrated that, all to be quickly dropped when a non-Irish national was arrested.

cheese sandwich

I don’t see the purpose in publishing long articles about murders from nearly 30 years ago, other than as a form of voyeuristic pornography

I hate that stuff - and I can be fairly feminist. Misleading information doesn't benefit women. The demonisation of men when Ashling was murdered was utterly off the wall stuff. The Suffragettes were my heroines but a lot of dishonesty has seeped into feminism since.

yagan

I cancelled my IT subscription after the headline "all boys are raised in a soup of misogyny" was one of many intentionally provocative pieces promoted after Aisling Murphy's murder.

There was another worse headline but they changed it. They know what they're doing, it's a gender version of race baiting common to British tabloids.

Also, many of the same feminists (particularly the very young, "woke" ones) don't give a sh1t about areas of concern for women like dangers in prostitution, hard-core porn, and transwomen in women's prisons and competing in women's sports.

For my first post to this thread, I'd be considered a "pick me girl", whereas it's the "sex work is work" lot who are the pick me girls imo.

There's liberal feminism (the above), radical feminism (too man hating)... I guess maybe I'm a conservative feminist, if that's a thing.

cuttingtimber22

I thought it was a good article and important to highlight these cases. The Irish Times is probably our only serious paper left and they get more right than wrong in my opinion. Saying that I was not that fond of the editorial period with Geraldine Kennedy at the helm but I still read it every day.

rogber

Like most sensible people, I find the extreme feminists whose solution to genuine problems is radical overreaction to be more hindrance than help: for example, many genuine cases of sexual assault are not prosecuted due to lack of sufficient evidence, therefore the solution is "believe all women" and just prosecute men based on accusation. The flaw in such an approach is obvious. Not all women are angels, some lie to destroy lives.

On the other hand, in every area from spousal violence to human trafficking, from porn to prostitution, from war to gang violence, the overwhelming abuse and violence is committed by men, and female rage at this is understandable. That most victims of male violence are other men does not alter the basic fact that for women the perpetrators are almost always men. If it was the other way round men would soon do something about it.

What annoys me about IT is their claim that boys are raised to be misogynistic when in Ireland today that's patently not true. Boys are taught about consent, they are taught about bullying and violence, and the vast majority pay heed. A minority never will and this can't be changed by education alone when men are clearly more prone to violence by nature.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058255860/the-irish-times-and-its-commentary-on-femicide

The Irish Times devoted a lot of column inches recently to commemorating women who died in Ireland of murder and manslaughter in the last 30 years or so. Obviously, all of these women deserve commemoration, but it seems there is a lack of context, vis-a-vis:

The article in question, if it’s the same one we’re thinking of, doesn’t lack any sort of context relating to femicide. It amounts to nothing more than a list commemorating women who have been the victim femicide in Ireland in the last 30 years. Is this the article you’re referring to?

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-style/people/2022/07/23/stolen-lives-239-violent-deaths-of-women-in-ireland-from-1996-to-today/

So the question I have is why is the Irish Times trying to portray my country as a horrible misogynistic s.hithole, when we are if anything the opposite and in fact a country were women and men suffering oppression overseas flee to? Seems a bit weird for the self-styled 'paper of record'.

I don’t think that’s the intent of the article. Your assessment appears to be based more upon distracting from what the article is about, much like your suggestion that it lacks context because it doesn’t mention any of the other multitude of issues which you bring up which amounts to nothing more than whataboutery and trying to portray yourself as a victim of the Irish Times editorial policies. Your question has nothing to do with the article, it’s just a stupid question meant to distract from what the article is actually about.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058255860/the-irish-times-and-its-commentary-on-femicide

There is data showing that Ireland is amongst the safest with the lowest rates for feminicde in Europe .

Without doubt male suicide has been problematic in males with I think it's prevalence being something like 7 times greater than women with studies showing men being historically unwilling or unable to seek help from professionals when experiencing crisis or mental ill health is something certainly to be addressed possibly as an educational piece from a young age.

That woman in Limerick was historically convicted of manslaughter in a drink driving case .

I agree with you in regard to the IT article particularly in regard to my first paragraph, there is anecdotal evidence that certain commentators after the Aisling Murphy murder are seeking to raise the profile of themselves or agencies for funding etc.

Interestingly enough , I think we have the highest rate of homeless women in Europe

cezanne

The extreme violence against women began in ernest when the first batch of eastern europeans came here ( polish latvian slovaks ). My friend observed thsi as she was a nurse during that time. While the paddies did knock their women about they rarely knifed them and strangled them, the newcomers did this and in turn paddie copied them so now we have wholesale vicious assaults on women thanks to our lovely open borders. its is not abating instead it is worse than ever.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386256#Comment_119386256

now we have wholesale vicious assaults on women thanks to our lovely open borders

I assume you've stats to back that up?

cezanne

aishling murphy is one that springs to mind?

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386315#Comment_119386315

That's one, from 7 months ago.

Now, where are all the wholesale vicious assaults? That implies it happens regularly.

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386256#Comment_119386256

Complete racist nonsense. The vast majority of the victims mentioned in the Irish Times article were Irish, and the perps (where known) also Irish.

Thelonious Monk

I saw this article the other day and thought god that's awful that that many women have been killed in recent decades. As toxic as this place is, I didn't think I'd see men posting here complaining about it because they feel hard done by. I really should not be surprised.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386758#Comment_119386758

Misandry is as unacceptable as misogyny, the Irish Times seemed to think the latter justifies the former.

Jequ0n

Breaking news…women get killed sometimes.

Yawn.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119381333#Comment_119381333

Of course you can be a conservative feminist, I see videos on Tik Tok fairly regular of women in both Ireland and the UK, out farming, driving tractors and involved in the rural economy, that's admirable glass ceiling shattering work

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387194#Comment_119387194

Pointing out that the vast majority of violent crime against women (and men) being carried out by men is not misandry.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390379#Comment_119390379

But running headlines like "all boys are raised in a soup of misogyny" in response to her murder is.

I feel we do demonise men and some quarters push a narrative that men are to be feared and are basically all potential abusers. It's a horrible mindset that I will never get behind.

I don't understand this thread though. The Irish Times published a list of women who met their death at the hands of some truly dreadful men. It's an article about women. If say for example it was an article about the number of men killed due to gangland crime then why would women need to be mentioned? We wouldn't be because it's not about us.

72sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058255860/the-irish-times-and-its-commentary-on-femicide

IT is desperately trying to be relevant to young people. Publishing this crap aligns them with endless future pseudo-academic and feature articles for which they’ll be rewarded. The IT, instead of syndicating NYT globalist dross, should invest in some public-service investigative journalism in Ireland. Imagine that, no chance! LOL. 

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386758#Comment_119386758

It's horrific of course, and women are more likely to be killed by men than the other way around. Statistically, men are more violent, but the way it's framed as something that all men are responsible for - nobody but the perpetrators are responsible. And preaching at all men isn't going to stop the violent and murderous from being violent and murderous.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389571#Comment_119389571

Stay classy dude.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119391326#Comment_119391326

Also it's mindset seems stuck in a south county Dublin dinner party bubble. Their only interest in anything outside the M50 seem to about what adventures people from south county Dublin get up to.

And another thing why I'm on a roll is I could never understand why Michael McDowell gets so much opportunity to repeat the same diatribes. Same with many of their scribes, Una Mullaly and Breda O'Brian stand out as polar opposites but equally repeditive in their slock.

I really think with our membership of the EU so important and with so many EU citizens in Ireland they could run more regional stories from all over Europe.

72sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119391380#Comment_119391380

The IT reports about Ireland as if it were a foreign country, they're just lovely people!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119391423#Comment_119391423

There are some years where instead of an entry there is a sentence explain that information is being withheld. It's probably to do with legal things. I'd need to read the list again but I'm sure there is one woman who was strangled to death by another woman.

Most of the deaths occurred within relationships and families. That's worth noting I feel. It's not a new or shocking reveal, it's not a reveal at all, but it reminds me of the dark underbelly that exists in some Irish homes.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390379#Comment_119390379

It absolutely is if you don't qualify what you mean by "men" as there are a lot of them in Ireland. According to the latest census, there were a little over 5 million people in Ireland, of which we can assume roughly 2,500,000 are male. So, yes, "men" is a rather large group and you could do with being more specific.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392104#Comment_119392104

Ah so 'not all men'?

Absolutely correct, but the vast majority of the time it is men. Anyone who tries to deflect with the 'not all men' trope miss the point completely.

SeanW

Do you blame "Muslims" for terrorism?

TomSweeney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392170#Comment_119392170

Definetely not, but the ideology of Islam ? - absolutely.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392137#Comment_119392137

I'm a woman and I don't mind "not all men" being said when all men are held responsible.

Bass Reeves

I have not read the Irish Times in 25 years. Looks like I have missed nothing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392299#Comment_119392299

Probably because there is no similar assignment of responsibility (for something negative) to "all women" in the media and from politics. Women don't get highlighted in the same manner.

I'm a man, but It's not like I had a choice in the matter. Pointing to all men as being responsible is no different from the racism shown in the past, which we now consider to be completely unfair and wrong.

Honestly, it does annoy me when the media (and others) pushes this line.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392758#Comment_119392758

I was really overwhelmed by the line taken by the Irish Times in reaction to Aislings murder, I felt I was being blamed for her death simply because I was a man. I felt it no different to those editorials that blamed all muslims for 9/11, or all catholics for clerical child abuse.

foxsake

it seems to be a trend - if you look at our brilliant minister for justice

she commented yesterday on the gardai jailed for his abusive behaviour toward his partner but is sadly silent on many other - "not on the agenda" crimes.