Why are we stuck with CO2 emissions for oil we use and beef we sell abroad?

Sam Russell

Look, I accept that there major problems with the Motor Tax issue that should have been corrected, but the GP were not in power to do so. I am not an apologist for the GP, but I think they get blamed for elements of a policy badly implemented.

Even the current system is nuts, where a plug-in hybrid gets credit for the sometimes never use of the plug-in bit.

The Nox changes are recent, and only apply to VRT since Jan 2020.

[Edit: I got an email from a spoof site offering the following:

Your Mercedes might have had a cheat device fitted to pass its emissions test without you knowing. If it did you could make a claim against Mercedes.

So someone thinks MB were at it as well. Of course I have never owned a MB car, so not for me. They say the claim could amount to £10,000 - so not even the right currency - based in Spain]

mickdw

But it was a green policy firmly entered into program for government at the time when making their deal to enter government with FF.

I don't see anyone bar the green party to blame for this one I'm afraid.

I can still hear Gormley defending it at the time. He certainly had no wish to alter some of the obvious issues with the implementation at the time while he was still sitting pretty in government. The biggest issue I saw at the time apart from the whole ignoring of all emissions bar co2 was the refusal to allow cars registered prior to 08 to be reclassified / moved over to co2 system. This meant 2 identical cars could have 1000 euro in difference to tax if registered 31/ 12 /2007 v 1/1/ 2008.

The fact that the manufacturers had such elaborate cheats in place re nox only goes to highlight how big an issue those emissions were and shows that the greens did not have the environmental credentials to be legislating in such an important area if they were oblivious to the finer details of vehicle emissions.

Sam Russell

The fact that the manufacturers had such elaborate cheats in place re nox only goes to highlight how big an issue those emissions were and shows that the greens did not have the environmental credentials to be legislating in such an important area if they were oblivious to the finer details of vehicle emissions.

The cheats were there for CO2, not NOx, because NOx was not an issue at the time.

I agree that all cars should have been allowed to choose which system they were classified under - at least for older cars (pre-2008).

The Mazda MX5 1.8l had an unfortunate accident. A 2007 version had a tax rate of €560 (cc) iirc, the 2008 had a tax rate of €750 (CO2) and the 2009 had a tax rate of €570 (CO2), all because of a slight change in the CO2 value declared. It was a stupid system to start with, made worse by a bad implementation.

Pity the GP do not put more emphasis on rail infrastructure to ease congestion and cut emissions.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412779#Comment_119412779

I am correct re the manufacturers having elaborate nox cheats in place.

That system of cheating was tuned to suit the EU co2 systems but USA had nox testing back then and the cheat device primarily to artificially reduce nox to 1/40 of real levels some reported. My point is therefore 100 percent valid. The greens who sought to bring in emissions based taxation of vehicles had no idea what they were doing. Nox wasn't new. Diesels were not clean but it appears they didn't know they should be looking at it. The.manufacturers knew it was bad and had the cheat to cover it up. Everyone knew diesel had a dirty side but not our green heros who promoted diesel cars for city centres.

Sam Russell

I think you are correct about the USA testing for NOx.

And also the GP knew little about the effects of changing the Motor Tax rates. They tried to do too much, and had too great an effect on the market and actually did not get the result they expected.

People who bought the diesel cars and suvs and used them for short urban trips - shops, kids to school etc. - ended up with expensive engine problems.

Bass Reeves

The Green party has being putting the cart before the horse always. Take Ryan's and the GP opposition to oil and gas exploration in Ireland. We have never bought ashore a commercial oil find and there is only one that is discovered ( Barryroe) we have two extremely large Gas fields discovered Kinsale and Corrib. There is a smaller Corrib field that need drilling but as the minister involved Ryan will not sign off neither will he sign off on a test well for Barryroe which could legally cost Ireland a substantial sum. In the billions. Exploration has stopped in Ireland in case we find oil

Recently Minister Ryan refused to meet the developer of the LNG terminal without even offering an excuse and the developer had to meed the Tainste instead.

hTtps://m.independent.ie/irish-news/billionaire-gas-backer-secured-meeting-with-leo-varadkar-about-shannon-project-after-eamon-ryan-turned-him-down-41940903.html

What is happening at present is crazy. We are switching people to electrical based heating systems and our electrical based generation system cannot cope. Accross the EU they are putting in temporary LNG storage systems but The Bike Kid is not for changing

https://www.rigzone.com/news/europe_rushing_to_install_new_lng_import_facilities-29-aug-2022-170138-article

If you use wind and solar you need a infill generation system. The only infill generation system is gas generation. Not only that the whole renewable generation plan is deeply flawed. The natural resources needed for renewables ( steel, aluminum, copper lead, lithium etc) are not available in sufficient quanties for the whole world to change over to change over to renewable unless we use nuclear which the GP is dead set again as well.

The Bike Kid and the GP have us once again walking the plank. Unless some sanity is returned to electricity generation then we are in serious sh!t. Wind generation even with solar to supply the national grid is not possible without a storage source. This happy clappy thinking that we can transfer in and out with inter connectors accross Europe is not a viable solution.

As well there has been no analysis of how much of the wind actually produced is useable when it is produced. We have heard of figures of 35-40% produced but I have heard of figures of as low as 2% produced some days with the actual average of what is actually useable being 15-20%.

Sam Russell

I am no apologist for Ryan as he appears to be in search of the perfect which can be the enemy of the good (and in many of his pronouncements this is true).

The change to electric vehicles is a mistake. What should be done is a move to public transport, and cycling, and for those it would suit electric assisted bikes and e-scooters.

I was at St Vincent's Hospital and was astounded how the campus is a giant car park despite being on the Dart line (Sydney Parade), many Dublin bus routes (7 and 4), and BE routes which are timed to suit appointments. Workers should be able to use PT - not all but many, not none appear to use PT judging by the workers car park. The hospital has a nice little earner for someone - operating a high cost car parking system. Nearly all hospitals are deriving income from parking - well it may be directed elsewhere - but it is driven by the need for those who drive to the hospital to park their cars.

The move to heat pumps is only worth while if the building is very well insulated (B3 or better) and the heating is left on with (accurate) thermostats to turn it on or off when heat is actually required. Operating it like a gas or oil boiler - (on when you get home and off when you are not) - will get no benefits from the thermodynamics that govern the heat pump. Not many people know that.

So insulate first, ventilate properly after the accidental air leaks are dealt with, and learn to conserve energy. That should be the message. Accidental leaks in a house would be like leaving a mid-sized window open - now no-one would do that if it was cold outside.

The biggest PT project, Metrolink, (which should be driven by Ryan) just languishes on the to-do-sometime-next-decade, at astronomical cost now and when building actually gets underway, and will probably be cancelled after racking up the already huge costs before a single bit of a shovel hits the dirt.

Major users of electrical energy should look to cut down their use and install PV panels, while domestic users should learn to economise and time their use to minimise the strain on the grid.

Instead we have people being encourage to get rid of good ICE cars that have many years of good service in them and pay very high prices for heavy EV SUV cars that will consume lots of wasted energy carrying a huge battery around to give comfort to the driver that the occasional long trip wont give them range anxiety, or the need to recharge at a point midway to his grannies house.

Ryan has it all wrong.

Hotblack Desiato

Dublin Airport is just one more example.

PT doesn't run reliably enough, frequently enough, or to enough places (An Lar-ism is alive and well) and with almost no exceptions doesn't run through the night so is useless for shift workers.

We have services subsidised by taxes but designed and operated to suit the desires of the service operators not the service users.

But like the hospitals there's a perverse incentive not to improve things, because the DAA makes an absolute fortune out of car parking.

Sam Russell

For a long time I have been in favour of extending the Dart from Clongriffin to the airport over green countryside - a distance of 7 km. Very few land owners would be involved, and only crossing the M1 and entering the airport would be the only challenges.

It was always opposed because it reduces the business case for Metro - or Metrolink. It could be completed quickly, and cheaply and now Metrolink is nearly ready to go, maybe it could be resurrected.

The cost would be trivial compared to the very much larger project of Metrolink - the Metrolink serves much more than the airport, and the extra connection would be a huge addition - particularly connecting while the Metrolink is built. I am sure that IR still have the plans.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119606531#Comment_119606531

There is literally a 24 hour bus service to the Airport.

Anyway, this **** on Ryan, as much fun as people get from it, is a bit irrelevant to the topic at hand as he has no real control over how CO2 calculations are done globally.

Hotblack Desiato

I didn't say there wasn't - but how frequently, and to where?