Comparison between different fuels.

https://www.seai.ie/publications/Domestic-Fuel-Cost-Comparison.pdf

I find it fascinating how cheap heat pumps appear to be to run, just re-read it which says their figures are based on underfloor heating.

Even a COP of 3 appears to make a good saving over oil especially when night rate electricity is taken into account.

I know there are boilers now which can directly replace oil boilers which is what I would need, I know efficiency won't be as good but as I said even a COP of 3 looks attractive.

While a direct oil HP replacement might me more expensive to run you could also say that if it's a direct replacement to Oil it would not be running as continuously as say a normal heat pump would be.

Another attractive replacement would be a boiler pellet stove, again, appears to be much cheaper than Oil.

Our heating is in bad need of renewing and I think I've finally decided that pellets are probably the best way to go if heat pump is not feasible. Plumbing would need to be altered a lot for boiler stove which would replace the Effel Oil non boiler stove in the Kitchen, so the floor would have to be dug up to the hot press and the water tanks are not over head which might be an issue, they're a good distance over the kitchen but not directly over the Effel Oil stove. I would imagine any boiler stove would need tanks directly over head or maybe it's different than solid fuel.

There was a conversion done in the attic without raising the roof and so they needed to relocate the tanks but the copper cylinder is where it was.

We need to replace a lot of rads, most are the original rads from the 80s and the 2 rads in the kitchen could probably go altogether if the stove was on we wouldn't need them.

So what do you experts recommend here ?

lomb

Heat pumps are only as cheap as the electricity and good as insulation. If you have underfloor you could heat on night rate at full blast and then allow to cool during day topping up in evening.

The cheapest is probably a boiler stove imo. I have air source heat pumps with mitsubishi hyper inverters in a business but with 45 cent a unit tariffs in business it's getting crippling!

I'm thinking of putting in a powerwall to suck in cheap night power ( not cheap at all but same as domestic day rate) and use during day.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119222104#Comment_119222104

45c/Kwh ? that seems mad, who's charging that ?

You'd be better off on Wood Pellets at that rate if you could.

We don't have underfloor heating, and most of the rads would need to be replaced.

Just read that the boiler replacement heat pumps use around 35% electricity, feck that.

No think my mind is set now on Pellets will check out a place next Saturday.

lomb

Everyone is charging that to small business if you have a business then them minimum tariff is 40+ vat.some are charging 45+ vat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119224457#Comment_119224457

That's nuts!

lomb

It is nuts that's for sure. Must be some kind of cartel. One thing is solar panels aren't double for business but half with tax relief and grants likewise a powerwall isn't double but half so I guess il have to look into this soon. Businesscan get night rate electric for around what houses pay for day rate and can top up powerwall at night along with panels during day should be around 1/3. I've a small business and looks like electric bills will have gone up from 3k a year to 8k!

I know I get tax relief on the 8 but it is nuts.

I'm driving EV for the last 7 years and saved an absolute fortune over petrol or diesel, I worked it out that if I were averaging 50 mpg over my 30,000 odd Kms a year I would need 5,300 Litres of petrol or diesel costing 10,600 Euro's at 2 Euro a litre. With electric + a substantial amount of free work charging I would pay around 250-300 Euro's in electricity or less. I would pay less if one site I go to had a proper charge point instead of just a normal 13 amp socket. But still very little to pay + this included charging at home the odd time when not in work and it doesn't include the few times a year I visit a public charger which with 350-400 Kms is very rare.

Currently with night rate electricity gone up to around 12c/Kwh it would cost me @18 Kwh/100 average efficiency needing 5,405 Kwh @12 cent per Kwh = 648 Euro's if I paid for all my commute electricity.

At some point I may put up solar PV but ideally that would be when there's decent Feed-in-tariff because even with a battery there's no way I'd be able to use all that energy in the brighter months and would have to give all the excess to the grid for free even with a battery.

lomb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119228559#Comment_119228559

Impressive economy if I was doing serious miles It's something that I'd have to consider. I'm thinking of converting a diesel to vegatable oil use. Veg oil is 1.20 a liter. So that's 5.5 a gallon and at 40mpg that's around 2 grand a year for 20000 miles. Dearer than electric certainly but you can get a good 10 year old diesel car that's basically free of depreciation in trade and there's no range anxiety. There's always a Aldi or a petrol station near🙂

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119241798#Comment_119241798

Well for starters I looked back at my calculations an realised it can't be that much even at the current cost so I recalculated, don't know how or where I got those numbers ? must have been on the Wine, anyway I'll calculate it again.

If I were to average 50Mpg Imp over 30,000 Kms or 5.64 L/100 Kms this would be 17.700 kms per litre, 30,000 Kms divide by 17.700 = 1,694 litres of fuel needed not 5,300 as I had stated above ( gobshite ) costing @2.0 Per Litre 3,389 Euros not the mad 10,600 Euros. Mad_Lad is right! 😁 still a nice saving over Diesel and of course it's around 2.20 a litre now.

Used EV prices are much stronger now and it's hard to get 2nd hand electrics much cheaper 2nd hand than new unless they're 4 or 5 years old maybe, new prices have gone up too like everything else.

Where do you get the veg oil ? or is that the cost in the shops lol ? you probably wouldn't get near the efficiency though of diesel ? + you have to add stuff in winter to stop it gelling.

If I were not doing so much mileage I probably would be in a much older ICE car to be honest.

lomb

I thought your calcs were wrong but thought maybe you were calculating for several years of variable use, yes Mad Lad is a good handle!

Vegatable oil you can get delivered bulk from restaurant supply companies or can just buy it in Aldi or Lidl.

Used electrics are expensive unless its first gen leafs and I think the very short range renders it as a third and not even a second car.

I like the Ford Mondeo type hatchbacks. Practical enough you can get a 3 seat sofa in the back with the hatch but still capable of 50mpg, good looking,reliable,powerful and nice to drive. These are only a couple of grand 10 years old.

Anyway I haven't figured the best way for me yet but it's start it on diesel and switch over and then before turning off switch to diesel so need a small extra diesel tank in the boot for this and a switch, the coolant once warm heats the incoming vegatable oil making it ready for combustion.

Fuel economy on veg oil is only a tiny bit less than diesel probably the same if it's fresh oil and not used chip oil https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/05/diesel-vs-biodiesel-vs-vegetable-oil/index.htm#:~:text=The%20B5%20blend%20turned%20in,miles%20is%20only%2047%20gallons.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243126#Comment_119243126

dathi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119241798#Comment_119241798

dont forget revenue will put out there hand for tax on the veg oil if it is used as fuel . so if you are dipped road side they will look for receipts

Substitute Fuel Used as a propellant instead of unleaded petrol €465.98 Used as a propellant instead of diesel€405.38 that's taken from revenue page per 1000 litres

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119241798#Comment_119241798

You likely have done a bit of research on this so you may know, i remember some years ago a conversation about bio-diesel, is this an option?

I have seen pumps abroad but never have seen in Ireland, you may know?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119246846#Comment_119246846

2ncd hand electrics with decent range are a bit expensive alright, I have around 360-450 Kms in the id3 tour 5 and it's plenty for me, can charge to 80% in 30 mins if at a charger capable of giving the juice, to be honest with so much range using public chargers is rare, couple of time a year for me.

Good luck with your project keep the thread updated if it works and send me a message to notify me of the thread if you start one.

I assume you'll have to filter the veg oil ? then you'll have to store it also.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247173#Comment_119247173

One budget some years ago due to tax hikes they killed bio diesel and Ethanol over night that was that.

Using used veg oil is fine but too much land is needed for bio fuels which are better used to feed people.

LPG is another alternative, not sure how widespread filling stations are these days I'd imagine they'd be getting more popular but so many cars these days are Diesel.

Not sure I'd be comfortable with an LPG conversation, they can and have exploded, to be honest I just wouldn't take that risk with my 2 Sons.

Veg conversion is would be good for her Outlander, it's a very thirsty car 2.2 Diesel only 150 Hp but it's a big barge, suppose with her working from home these days she isn't spending a huge amount on diesel but the hassle of managing filtering and storing the veg oil.... + cost to convert ?

Then as mentioned what about tax on veg oil for road use ?

lomb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247157#Comment_119247157

I just fitted the kit! Also the veg oil tank is in the spare wheel well..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119260218#Comment_119260218

Any update on the conversion ? pics ?