Planning permission public consultation on solar panels

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212226#Comment_119212226

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119214451#Comment_119214451

Phew, I'm on 24m2. Still, I have a Karen next door🙄

bullit_dodger

Well, technically it used to be 12m^2 (still is if that legislation hasn't been passed) and nobody was worried including me with 23.5m^2. I'm planning on adding 2x more panels to my main roof and another 6 panels to the brick shed I have out the back.

Am I worried? With the new limit of 25M^2 ?

Nahh. It's a step in the right direction that change. I get it. There has to be "some" limit. I wish it was like 40m^2 which would put it at about 10Kwp, which is more than adequate for 95% of people. The reality though is unless someone seriously complains, there's no enforcement of any of those rules. You could argue the philosophical stance that even without enforcement, that doesn't mean that you should willy-nilly break them - and you'd have a point, but think having 27m^2 isn't like I've murdered someone. Karen's of the world not withstanding.

The 50cm is only for SEAI for your grant. If it's your dime, and you have 35cm......good luck in getting a county council man onto my roof with a ruler to prove me wrong. To be fair though, knowing a little of aerodynamics, while 50cm might be a lot.....I wouldn't push it right to the edge either. The loading does increase on the panels. I'd have at least 20cm there.

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119229940#Comment_119229940

25 square metres is the new limit for an exempt free standing solar installation (i.e a ground frame) on a residential site. Limit is 60 sq metres on a commercial site.

There is no size limit on rooftop solar unless it is on a commercial building in a safeguarding area in which case the limit is 60 sq metres.

Different rules if the building is a protected structure or in an architectural conservation area.

This idea that the planning authority won't enforce or measure anything and that you'd need to be living next door to a Karen to have a problem is probably mostly true but shows how much of a joke our planning system is. What happens if Karen has political connections or relatives working in the planning dept - then the council planning enforcement people might actually get the finger out.

Lots of people have been ignoring the existing regs for years. Now we have the concept of solar safeguarding areas near airports etc. If, pre 2022, someone had erected a massive array near Dublin airport without planning and there was a major plane crash with "dazzle" of the pilot listed as a contributory factor in the investigation, how would that work out legally for the parties involved. Obviously an extreme and highly unlikely but still possible event.

the_amazing_raisin

Does anyone know what defines a roof edge?

I heard at some point that the peak of a roof is different, there's only a 10cm setback required. Does anyone know if there's any truth to that?

Also does the party line of a shared roof count as an edge in this case, or can you go right up to the line?

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119230134#Comment_119230134

Yeah, fair points Brian.

Again I kinda get why they'd list the airport thing - but as you say it's truly nonsense. I mentioned I've a knowledge of aerodynamics, that's actually from the fact that I have a pilot's license. In theory I guess it's possible, but more (likely) chance of a glass building doing the same or worse, and we're not banning them, or sun bouncing off a lake. Infact a lot of the time, your not even looking out, but watching the speed indicator, glide slope and localizer (ILS) - nahh, that one is .... questionable.

Still - the new planning laws are an improvement in the right direction. It doesn't 100% sit well with me though that they have this oversight for something which is inherent in helping meet our environmental promises. The Karen's of the world need to "cop on". Someone gets in panels which improve the air quality for her kids and she's complaining to the council.

Yeah, I know the type of person.....but yeah, some common sense needed.

the_amazing_raisin

What I'm not understanding is the safeguarding zones around hospitals.

Are hospitals somehow more vulnerable to glare than any apartment or office building?

Most hospital wards I've been in seem to permanently have the curtains closed anyway

Mickeroo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119230534#Comment_119230534

Helipads.

BrianD3

Reminder - public consultation closes tomorrow.

Having read the documentation more carefully, I think my initial concern about detached sheds/garages eating into the exemption limit for solar ground arrays was unfounded.

Still, the exemption limit of 25 sq metres for ground arrays is small and should be raised IMO

TerraSolis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119328770#Comment_119328770

Yeah - I'll be making a submission on that grounds. Was going to suggest 35-40 sq metres so that it aligns more closely with NC6 capacity limit for single phase. Would be helpful for people with asbestos in the roof too for example.

the_amazing_raisin

Any updates on this? I see from the site that the consultation is being reviewed, is there any timeline on when they'll tell us that we're all wrong and the draft legislation is perfect how it is?

slave1

"Us" that have already done everything wrong i.e. too many panels will always be wrong, any new laws will not be retrospective and in theory we can all be forced to take our panels down if a Karen objects and planning submitted / declined

BrianD3

Over two months since the closing date for receipt of submissions and still, "Consultation is being reviewed". No hurry at all lads - I suppose when you have already farted about on an issue for years, months are no time at all. We're only in a climate emergency and energy crisis. And shur, it'll be Halloween and Christmas soon and the civil servants will be off then.

Solar panel installers are currently snowed under with work and the vast majority of setups now being installed do not comply with current planning regulations. Is the SEAI acting as some sort of pseudo planning authority by denying grants to people who don't leave 50 cm between their panels and the edge of their roof?

Yet another Irish farce.

simpsimp

@BrianD3 - the 50cm was part of the proposed updated guidelines, so I don't think that will be disappearing any time soon.

1. The distance between the plane of the roof and the solar photo-voltaic or solar thermal collector installation shall not exceed: 15cm in the case of a pitched roof, or b. 50cm in the case of a flat roof.

2. The solar photo-voltaic or solar thermal collector installation shall be a minimum of 50cm from the edge of a roof on which it is mounted.

https://www.gov.ie/en/consultation/3813e-public-consultation-on-the-draft-planning-and-development-act-2000-exempted-development-no-3-regulations-2022-and-the-draft-planning-and-development-solar-safeguarding-zone-regulations-2022-solar-exemptions/

I enquired with my local TD a couple of weeks back, and they shared a letter from Minister Peter Burke's office dated 31 August saying that the process would be completed in the "coming months".

No rush, then.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

BrianD3

Yeah, I phrased that badly, I knew that the 50 cm setback was also part of the new draft regs. The point I was trying to make was that the only state agency "enforcing" any of the solar panel requirements in the existing planning regs is the SEAI via non payment of grants if the 50 cm setback isn't observed. A farcical situation and typical of this country - regs not fit for purpose so instead of updating them in a timely manner, feet are dragged and the existing regs are not enforced - not that the inept County Councils would have the resources to enforce them even if they wanted to.

And as per Peter Burke's office the regs will be updated in the coming months. That means next year.

the_amazing_raisin

Yeah I'm hoping this one gets across the line before next March, which is when I'm planning to install panels

I guess it wouldn't be a disaster to have to get planning permission, but it does raise the cost somewhat

paulbok

Remember planning takes a minimum of 13 weeks, and that's without only queries or objections.

BrianD3

Irish Indo saying that new regs could be signed off as early as next week

https://www.independent.ie/news/environment/solar-panel-restrictions-lifted-as-property-owners-now-free-to-install-as-many-as-they-like-42026309.html

In this thread we discussed the 25 square metre and height limitations for ground arrays in the new draft regs - if the regs are to be signed off shortly it sounds as though they are not being amended as presumably that would mean another period of public consultation? Anyhow, it's still very good news that the absurd 12 square metre limit for planning exempt rooftop arrays is going.

slave1

Good to see it in final stages, would need to see the final bill before we can peel out the key remaining restrictions

Ubbquittious

Great I am trying o buy a site and and hope to go off grid, so will likely need to plaster every square cm of roof with solar

slave1

Ground array for sure, if starting from scratch I'd look at both directional and tiltable

Nelbert

Is the biggest change for roof mounted restrictions? I've a Southish facing wall (gable of house) I'm considering putting some vertical mounted panels on as a winter compliment to plans for shed roof.

Are walls in play without planning permission when this gets signed off?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682006#Comment_119682006

The draft SI specifically states that wall mounted solar panels will not be exempted development.

paulbok

If lifted next week, would that mean current planning applications automatically get passed or rendered unnecessary?

Would amestyies apply to setups currently in breach of the regs?

Sligobuck

Solar Panel restrictions lifted

https://www.independent.ie/news/environment/solar-panel-restrictions-lifted-as-property-owners-now-free-to-install-as-many-as-they-like-42026309.html

Ooops just noticed it was already posted above...

slave1

Not lifted, “soon” to be lifted

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682532#Comment_119682532

AFAIK no to both

simpsimp

Aaaaaand it's passed... Exemption effective as of Wednesday 5th October.

• Houses, regardless of location, may now install unlimited solar panels on their rooftops without any requirement for planning permission (subject to certain conditions)

• Exemptions also apply to rooftops of industrial buildings, business premises, community and educational buildings, places of worship, health buildings, libraries, certain public utility sites and farms.

• Certain restrictions continue to apply, including developments near certain aviation sites, protected structures and Architectural Conservation Areas.

The Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Darragh O’Brien, TD, has signed into law revised planning exemptions for the installation of solar panels on the rooftops of houses and certain non-domestic buildings. The exemptions are aimed at increasing Ireland’s generation of solar energy and combating climate change. The changes take immediate effect.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/9ba0e-new-planning-permission-exemptions-for-rooftop-solar-panels-on-homes-and-other-buildings/

slave1

Exemptions for wall-mounted too!

BrianD3

In general it's very good news that this is now in. However, disappointing that the proposed 25 sq metre limit for ground arrays on residential sites hasn't been increased from the draft regs while the limit on commercial sites seems to have gone up from 60 to 75 sq metres.

25 sq metre limit is possibly related to, as speculated in this thread, the 6 kW single phase export limit.

There is already a frenzy for people to get roof mounted solar panels and this will only increase now. I fear that there could be corners being cut and that this will only become apparent when wind and rain storms hit us. Ground arrays may be more expensive and "waste" garden space but they are also more straightforward in many ways.

@slave1 I think the wall mounted exemptions are only for commercial sites, good news alright for anyone to whom this applies

Nelbert

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712835#Comment_119712835

Where is this mentioned? I asked this recently and was told it wasn't exempt.

On reading it I'm more inclined to read it as exempt for industry and agriculture. A general exemption for all but the front of houses would have been fair in that context.

Industrial estate behind me can have 75m² of wall solar but I can't have any without planning doesn't make much sense.