Difficulty getting new spare keys for a 2002 Volvo S40.

CreadanLady

Hi there. My mother has a 2002 Volvo S40, 1.9 diesel as a second car. The car has sentimental value as it was my fathers. Lovely driver. However, we have only one working key and it is in bad shape with the plastic part all breaking up. My mother is always loosing things too, so if she looses it, its fúcked.

I have been trying for weeks to get a new set of spare keys made for the car, but so far without success. I have tried the likes of Keyfast, Autokey, and various other locksmiths who claim to be able to do any make or model car keys. But they all look at it and come back saying "oh I can't do that one, they are an odd one and I can't do it". Some have said they could and taken the car for an hour but come back saying that they couldn't do it and to go to a main dealer.

So I went to the Volvo main dealers in Cork and they said no problem, leave it to us. I came back to collect and they said oh sorry we couldn't do it, our diagnostic machine is too new and it won't communicate with a 2002 S40 so there is no more we can do with it. They didn't have much in the way of advice for what I should do now. I was dismayed that a Volvo main dealer would shrug their shoulders and not have any answer.

I then went looking at the option of getting someone specialising in tuning, ECUs, or imobilisers to either hack the ECU and make it free-run or just programe out/disable the immobilzer some way so that a physically cut key would be capable of starting the car. So far they have all said that they can't do it and have nothing else to say only go to a main dealer, which I tried already with no success.

Surely it cannot be that much of a tall order to get new keys, someone out there must have the knowledge and equipment to do this job. Would anyone have any leads on some crowd that can do this job? We are in Tipperary/Cork but are willing to travel if it means that the job can be done successfully.

If it is of any use, I believe that all the electronics in these S40s are from Mitsubishi, and the car is a badge engineered copy of a Mitsubishi Carisma of the same year.

The Continental Op

I was going to jump in and say isn't it a Ford under the body work but I would have been wrong seems yours is a pre Ford model and that I suspect is your problem.

You could probably recondition the old key fob a bit with a new plastic shell of ebay.

CreadanLady

It's not a fob key, it is an old fashioned cut metal key, but obviously with an RFID tag in it.

The condition is only one problem, the main thing is that it is the only key we have. We need to have a spare. Since it is turning out to be so dificult to get a replacement spare, if we loose the one remaining key, the car will be bricked if a new key cannot be got.

My mother is and always has been a disaster for loosing and misplacing things, so my fear is it is only a matter of time before she can't remember where she left it and the car will be rendered useless for want of a key.

The Continental Op

Is this two separate problems?

1) Getting a similar key blank

2) Getting a new RFID tag coded

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119134010#Comment_119134010

try koping on the naas road in dublin

the issue is the cost, it was 400 quid for an s60 ones years (better off just risking the one key)

the issue is not the key itself but the reprogramming

but a hack is to get 2 non chipped copies cut and tape the original key inside the plastic cover surrounding the steering column

CreadanLady

yeah well getting the physical key cut is a piece of cake. That isn't the issue, the real problem is the RFID tag.

I have thought about doing just that, extracting the RFID tag from the key and attach it to the receiver inside. But that is incredibly risky. If i damage the tag while extracting it, I am goosed. Also, I'd be concerned the RFID might not work outside the key body as the metal key shaft might act as an antenna or waveguide of some sort to channel the weak signal to the receiver equipment. If I had 2 keys, I would risk it, but with one key only, I am not going to go fiddling with it as any problem will brick the car.

I actually have a blank key that is not programmed. I have tried holding the programmed key against the blank while turning in ignition to see would it start it, but it will not. This gives me the suspicion that the metal shaft is an a waveguide of some sort for the RFID signal.

10-10-20

This might be an option.

The transponder device in some keys was a simple packaged chip which (as you guessed) often used the metal key way as a type of a close-coupled antenna. These chips were often press-fitted into the plastic (or glued) and are normally separable from the plastics. See the chip in the image within this ebay posting - top right is what that chip looks like... https://www.ebay.com/itm/183593900121?hash=item2abf0c9859:g:BqEAAOSwhMxfCCwl

You best bet might be to liberate that chip and try installing it near to or within the plastics surrounding the ignition barrel, then get a new key cut without the transponder. I know that used to be done with some of the older Alfa keys of the same vintage. There was a trick to it though - the barrel was shielded so positioning is critical.

CreadanLady

I understand all that yes. The key's outer rubber sheath has disintegrated and I can see the slot in the plastic inner that most likley holds the RFID chip. it looks to be embedded in sort of soft gluey resin like black silicone sort of consistency. I have no doubt that I could pick out the clue and extract the RFID chip

.But as I said, I am not willing to risk the one and only working key that i do have by dismembering it. One false move while extracting or handling that RFID chip, and its game over. The stakes are too high for that kind of experimental tinkering. There is no guarantee it would even work. As we said, the key shaft probably is a waveguide. I have already tried holding the good key up against the ignition while attempting to start with the blank. And that doesn't work, so it does not give me enough confidence that an extracted RFID chip taped or glued to the inner part of the ignition switch would work.

I need someone who has the right equipment and knowledge to programme a new key or to hack the ECU to disable the immobiliser.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119134157#Comment_119134157

but sure how would the blank key turn?

did you ring those lads

there is no risk to getting a key cut, dont go messing with the original key

there is no risk to the car being easy to start as no one will try to take that car in the first place

Calahonda52

I was a member of this forum for all the time I had volvos

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk

Just find the right section and post away

I bought a car from these guys, very helpful

https://danevalleyvolvo.co.uk

CreadanLady

When I say "blank" key, I am meaning a key that has been cut to the shape but the RFID tag in it was never matched to the ECU (or possibly it has no RFID tag in it), so it is blank in that respect. It is a key we got years back when we were locked out and we got it from a dealer just to be able to open up the door and retrieve the locked in key. This event too, being the doing of my mother who is a walking disaster when it comes to keys, phones, cards and anything else you need to keep track of.

I got on to Koping and spoke to two lads there and they say they have the exact same diagnostic machine as any other dealer and that is should work if I brought it to them. Should. Everyone else said the same, it should work but turned out they couldn't and i was back to square one. but I got the vibe from the lads that they seemed to know or be a bit more forthcoming with information and details than the other dealer I spoke to.

If they don't work out, is there anyone in Munster that would be capable of an ECU hack to disable the immobiliser? Another guy told me he wasn't going to do that for liability reasons if it was robbed. I get that, but its a 20 year old car - hardly high on the list for eastern european car theft gangs.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119134338#Comment_119134338

there is an antenna around the barrel the key sits, this reads the key chip

CreadanLady

I know.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119135272#Comment_119135272

so there's not reason if you hold the key there it wont start

like be proactive, send an email to volvo

Stephenc66

Have you tried they Lock Doctor it the Crescent shopping centre Limerick. The have cut keys for a 2003 Honda for me. They copied the RFID chip no programming of the car required.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119135588#Comment_119135588

it shouldnt be that straight forward to clone the RFID, might depend on the car

Stephenc66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119135640#Comment_119135640

I can only tell you I walked in with one working key and came out with two. That is 4 yrs ago now What technology they have I don't know. Or if it would work on the OPs Volvo. But worth a call if it helps. Op may already have tried them

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119135640#Comment_119135640

It takes a few seconds to do. I've had several second keys cut and coded for both ford and VW made in a very reliable little key cutting/heel bar I pass when I'm in the UK. No idea if it would work for the OP but I'm having trouble understanding whats so special about the RFID chip code on the OP's S40?

What you normally get is a key blank with a slot in the side of it the guy programs the RFID from the old one they just pushes it into the slot.

CreadanLady

Lock Doctor are basically just a national directory service for independent locksmithing companies.

I have been on to several of them. Cunneens are supposedly, i am told, the most capable auto locksmiths in Cork. I booked in, they said that they could just clone the key as suggested here no problem. They rang me back after a half hour and said they couldn't do it and that I'd have to go to a main dealers....the main dealers (Johnson & Perrott of Cork and Lyons of Limerick) who both also said they couldn't do it and were at a complete loss as to what I should do.

Esel

Is it possible that a set of barrels and keys etc. from a breaker might work?

CreadanLady

No.

The issue is matching the RFID tag in a new key to the ECU. Or else cloning the existing RFID tag onto a blank RFID tag. Everyone I've tried so far can't do it on this type of car.

You'd still be left with that problem if you swapped keys and barrels. Unless you also swapped the ECU and CEM also to match, but jesus you'd have the car pulled to bits at that rate. Not to mind the possibility of something going wrong or something getting corrupted and being left with the whole thing dead as a brick.

The Continental Op

I'll see if I can find it again but I think it was on an archived section of a UK volvo club, someone said the Volvo garage they used had to download some piece of software from Volvo to be able to clone the key.

Edit> Sorry it was remote key fobs https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=127143

Dirty Nails

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119138498#Comment_119138498

There appears to be several different types of transponder chips in volvo keys. Where did you get the key cut ? I wonder if they can't read your key or can't programme it to the replacement key. Learned that one the hard way with a Suzuki jeep,right key,wrong chip.

Might be worth getting a blank from Volvo off chassis number & start again.

As far as starting it by holding the good key nearby,even the blank chip might be corrupting the signal.

https://www.transpondery.com/transponder_catalog/volvo_transponder_catalog.html

CreadanLady

The one good key I have is one of the original keys that came with the car.

The spare but non-starting key is also a genuine Volvo part that was ordered cut and all according that specific car, but either a) the RFID tag was never coded in , or b) it is just a dumb door key with no RFID.

On trying to start holding the two keys together, I did wonder would the chips' signals interfere with one another, but then I tried the opposite, starting with the "good" start key while holding the non-starting key against it and it starts fine. So they are not interfereing in that opposite arragement. This leads me more to thinking that the key blade acts as a waveguide/antenna to channel the chip signal into the receiver, ie, meaning a chip would probably not work if it is outside of the key.

10-10-20

For what it's worth - I just popped out my transponder from my Alfa's key - it's a Philips PCF7931xp and seems to have been used in many European models around then.

As you don't like any of the previous options, you're remaining one might be to obtain the services of a person who can code-out the security functionality from within the ECU/security control unit. That or acquire a whole suite of parts including the ECU, set of new keys, barrel and also the security controller (which may be in the rear-view mirror).

CreadanLady

I would much prefer to get someone who could code it or hack the ecu to disable the immobiliser function altogether.

Replacing the full set of parts, well that seems like you'd be taking the car to bits. And I'd be surprised if you could source all those parts in a set that would include more than one key.

I suppose all I can ask ye here is do any of ye know someone who has the gear and knowledge to be able to hack the ECU and code out the immobiliser? I am willing to travel anywhere in Ireland if it means it can be done.

The Continental Op

A bit of lateral thinking would suggest that if you could find out exactly where the RFID receiver is you could take the chip out of the key and epoxy it to the receiver so you can't loose it.

zg3409

I think others suggestions are best. Mount the genuine key near the ignition and use a dumb key with no chip in it to start the car.

To address's your issues, try removing the cowl around the ignition and see if there is a coil of wire around the end of the Barrell. You may be able to relocate this slightly and blue tack genuine key next to it for testing.

The "blank" may have a chip in it, they often do, and the car may only read the ID once and remember the wrong ID until the ignition is off for a period of time. Moving the sensing coil away may solve these problems.

If you are still having issues bring car to carkey specialist and ask them to do the sane thing for you. They might know some tricks of the trade to get it to work.

Some very old keys had various weird and wonderful non standard security options.

Just beware from an insurance point of view the car no longer has an immobiliser and could be started with a screwdriver.

Sill having issues post up pictures of here of Barrell with the covers removed.

CreadanLady

I get all that. The issue i have with it is the riskiness of tinkering around with it. As I said, one wrong move and something breaks, or the RFID chip gets damaged, and it's game over for the car.

Not having an immobiliser is not an issue. It is a twenty year old car, a) it won't be on the radar for car thieves by a long shot and b) no-one will know it doesn't have an immobiliser, and c) at twenty years old it is worth zero and has long since been paid for, so on the minimal chance that it does get robbed, sure bad luck and we will just suck it up.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119143164#Comment_119143164

Rationalising here: It's a 20 year old car, not a future concours classic. The risk is minimal as the transponder is an encased chip in the key-plastics. You require a solution for a parent which is simple and will provide ease of use and functionality and prevent against the loss of the sole remaining key, while blanks which are being cut are functional for the key-way but not for the security system.

I know what I'd be doing.

fancy pigeon

Hope I'm not late to this party

I think you have an ID48 key. Try get the chip on its own and see if you can find a decent locksmith to clone it

CreadanLady

What would you be doing?

Update.... My mother has now lost the last remaining key.. so the car is totally immobile and totally keyless.

The car has sentimental value to her so scrapping isn't really something I can tell her to do.... Cos she won't .

User1998

Just read your whole thread. Seems like you’ve done your research and have tried everything. If multiple locksmiths and main dealers cannot make a second key then it looks like your at a dead end.

AMKC

Try Wish.com.

Or Geek.Com

I know it might seem like a crazy idea but my brother got a key for his Peugeot 207 from there.

The original 207 key was falling apart. Terrible build quality. The one he got on Wish was believe it or not much better.

R.O.R

If nothing has been sorted yet, try https://www.ardfallen.com/

The service manager from J&P Volvo went over there. I don't know if he's still there though as it was probably 10 years ago now that he went, but it's worth a shout. He was in Volvo for many, many years and there's nothing he didn't know about the service side of things - think his name was Kevin.

If he's gone, they still should be able to sort it somehow, and they are a recovery service so can collect the vehicle to reprogramme the key, if it needs to go in somewhere.