Becoming homeless with full time job

Overhand loop

How is this possible? How is this becoming a norm? Why is this happening? Am I doing something wrong? 

How is a family of two, both in full employment and not on the minimum wage just a week from becoming homeless?

Our landlord decided to sell and couldn't care less that a month notice is not enough to find alternative accommodation. We have been applying to hundreds of apartments, flats, studios in and outside of Dublin but either couldn't even get viewings or were told "oh you're really nice but, unfortunately, we're looking for a single person". We have excellent references, never missed a payment, left previous properties in better state than we found them and are less than a week from living in our car. This is madness. I don't know what to do anymore.

L1011

How long are you in the rental? One months notice is only valid if you are there for less than six months.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058246851/becoming-homeless-with-full-time-job

Are you house sharing with the LL or renting a property?

Ozark707

Edit: double post

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095491#Comment_119095491

Its only double display by the forum - so you've edited out the actual post. Not that its obvious that that is what's happening!

Overhand loop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095470#Comment_119095470

We signed 1 year lease last December. I have a feeling that other tenants received their notices earlier as they started moving a month before we got ours. Could be a coincidence but I have a feeling it's not.

L1011

And how recently did you receive the notice?

If the notice is invalid - they often are - and needs to be reissued, it would be over the 6 months and give you 90 days.

Overhand loop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095479#Comment_119095479

Renting. I don't even know where landlord lives but not here. His post comes here though.

Looks like he is trying to pull a fast on, with the post. He'll try to claim that he is living there.

Get on the the RTB, you have more than 30 days

Overhand loop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095517#Comment_119095517

We're less than 6 months into our lease. He knows his stuff. We got our notice 22 days ago.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095542#Comment_119095542

I'd suggest getting Threshold to take a look at the notice. They are very, very easy to get wrong.

houseyhouse

If you signed a one year lease and it hasn’t been a year, the landlord can only evict you for non payment of rent or breach of the lease. Contact Threshold. They will read the lease and advise you. I am a landlord myself and these types of a***holes give us all a bad name.

Overhand loop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095523#Comment_119095523

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095547#Comment_119095547

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095561#Comment_119095561

I feel like we don't have that option. Looking back at it there were signs that this was pretty much planned and we were tricked into it as a sort of rental income gap filler. He knows what he's doing and l have looked at all legislations myself and it looks like we've no luck. I'm not a lawyer though.

Overhand loop

We want to be out of here and forget this place existed at all but can't get rental anywhere. What will be our options once we live in a car. Social will not help us. We have income. We are not refugees. Who to ask for help? We never asked government for anything. Paid taxes, paid rent. Now we are treated like lepers. Can't get even worse of the worst places.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058246851/becoming-homeless-with-full-time-job

1. Chronic short supply of housing
2. If we were in the 80s now, there would have been plane-loads of people leaving - freeing up houses. Now we have people who just don't feel like working (despite there being lots of work available) and we give them a house and a free salary so why leave at all?

Amadan Dubh

He can't physically evict you himself just to note or you can call the Gardai. Should you need more time, it's worth having that in the back pocket.

Is there anything to be said for getting your big items into a storage lot as a first step so you are a bit more flexible with moving should you end up living in a few places before getting a longer term rental again?

Otherwise, get advice on the lease and the notice in the first instance and keep looking for a rental or even a studio, applying as just one of you, then getting the other in after the lease is signed in order to not split yourselves up.

hayse

It’s a site issue.

macvin

Very few rentals are advertised on daft/myhome.

Most are simply listed with agents and they have a list of people looking for property.

I'd look outside Dublin but near a train station. Sallins is a good area as is maynooth.

newmember2

You've contacted the RTB and your landlord has registered your tenancy with the RTB? You need a yes to both of these. If landlord has not registered the tenancy then...

https://www.rtb.ie/register-a-tenancy/why-register/penalties-for-not-registering

If the tenancy is indeed registered then the RTB will be able to advise you.

Deeec

Op you are in a **** situation. Hold off though on going nuclear by contacting RTB, threshold, solicitor etc. First of all sit down face to face with your landlord and tell them your position. If they are any way decent they will let you stay another while until you are sorted. They may even be able to get you somewhere else to live by using their landlord contacts.

Honestly clear communication with the landlord is best in this situation.

Mrs OBumble

Work your network, not just looking online Someone you know knows Someone who needs a reliable tenant like you, and doesn't want to advertise.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095759#Comment_119095759

They have a week. RTB is their only play

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095822#Comment_119095822

But have they actually spoke to the landlord and explained that they are trying their best to find somewhere but can't at the moment?

Going to the RTB first without speaking to the landlord is going to antagonise the landlord and ultimately lead to a soured relationship. If the landlord is not understanding then go to the RTB.

As I said clear communication is key in situations like this. Often intervention by RTB, threshold etc actually does more harm than good.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058246851/becoming-homeless-with-full-time-job

we ve clearly completely wrecked our property market, i wish you the best of luck

handlemaster

The landlord has issued the notice in-line with the law un palatable as it might be for the tenant. The landlord might have very good reasons to sell thats their business. However again I see suggestions on how to thwart the legal process. This does no one any good in the long term. Landlord has additional unnecessary expenses and no one will rent to the tenant after.

Additionally it only makes it harder collective for potential tenants to fond a place to rent with stories like this.

This story told by the lordland could go like this.... rented to tenant had to sell abided by the law and the tenant is still in the property. Wheres the justice.

Mongfinder General

Here is one option. It is a bit of a stretch but 1 hour and 10 mins away from Dublin on the train. https://www.propertypal.com/property-to-rent/newry

I’d offer £50 over the asking prices to speed up the process.

houseyhouse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095604#Comment_119095604

https://www.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/ending-a-fixed-term-tenancy

⬆️ That’s the rtb page about ending a fixed term tenancy, which is what you have if you signed a one year lease. The ll is not following the rules here at all. Doesn’t matter what signs you had this was coming, the ll is in the wrong to give you a month’s notice.

If I were you I wouldn’t be moving into my car. Call Threshold. They’re a tenant advocacy organisation not a state agency. They will give you advice, not fine your landlord.

1800 454 454

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096051#Comment_119096051

🤦‍♀️Sigh - op don't do this yet.

Talk to your landlord and explain your situation. It's unlikely they will turf you out if you explain to them that you can't find accommodation yet.

houseyhouse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096057#Comment_119096057

But why not do both? Threshold will not contact the landlord. They will tell op what their rights are. Surely that’s information they should have??

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096062#Comment_119096062

The easiest bloody thing to do is talk to the landlord. It's astounding the amount of people on boards who have accomodation problems that could be rectified by actually talking to their landlord! Contrary to popular belief not all landlords are evil ogres that don't care. The one sure way of getting the landlords heckles up is quoting threshold or threatening reporting them to RTB.

All the op needs is a bit of extra time to find a place which I'm sure the landlord will give if they the hear the ops situation.

houseyhouse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096072#Comment_119096072

I dunno. The landlord signed a contract they had no intention of honouring, knowing it would cause huge disruption to op. I wouldn’t be so confident they’ll agree to give op longer out of the good of their heart. But talking to the landlord is certainly a good idea. I would also want to be sure of my rights, which is why I would call Threshold if I was unclear (which op seems to be).

And I’m not anti-ll as you seem to suggest. I’m a landlord myself. I’m anti-d***head.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096057#Comment_119096057

It sounds like the LL is simply trying to avoid the tenant accruing Part IV rights. Given that, they won't let them stay one day over the threshold.

More than a bit sh1tty by the LL if that is their definite strategy and they gave a 1 year lease with the intention to break it. If that could be proven, a court might find the tenant was entitled those rights. If it is a genuine change of circumstances and a genuine necessity then it wouldn't be as bad

dennyk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095604#Comment_119095604

Exactly what does your lease agreement itself say about early termination? Unless there is a clause in the lease itself allowing the landlord to terminate the lease before the one-year fixed term is up, his notice to terminate is invalid and you have the absolute right to remain in the property for at least the next six months. The laws allowing a tenancy to be terminated without a reason during the first six months (and allowing a Part 4 tenancy to be terminated for the allowable reasons) only apply to a periodic tenancy; a fixed term lease overrides that law and cannot be terminated during the fixed term unless the tenant has breached the lease agreement or there is a "break clause" explicitly allowing it to be terminated early by the landlord.

After the fixed term is up, your landlord can issue notice on the basis of his intent to sell the property at that time, but that will give you quite a bit more time to find alternative accommodations in the meantime.

AirBnB it.

Overhand loop

Lads. Thanks for your suggestions. I want to clarify few things and although I'm sure not everyone will read it anyways but here I go:

1. Talking to a landlord point.

This is not happening as we know his answer. I can not give much more info without exposing myself but believe you me since the first moth of our move we realised that we will get no help from him. We tried brushing it off and continue with our life but had in mind that we will need to look for something again closer to our lease end.

2. Talking to Threshold etc.

We didn't want to go that road as we will need to rent again and that means we will need a reference.

3. Suggestions working our network, taking Airbnb or ads of lovely apartments on daft etc.

As I have said originally - we have applied to million places. We get no response. We get no viewings. Check how many views ad gets once it is placed. Hundreds within first half an hour. Thousands if it's not taken down within a day. We providing excellent references, both hasn't been out of work for a day in our life, we're given bloody awards for how we work but getting no response. Once we do get it we are looked at as a small fish in a competition for places which are barely livable.

There are no properties. No hotel rooms for longer term letting as they are given to refugees. How long you think can you stay in Airbnb? It's not affordable long term by any means.

And network wise. We don't have one. We have asked people but our pain is ours. People have their own life's and I understand that.

So, my question is what is there more beyond PRTB and Threshold? What category do we fall in? SW will not help us with anything. We're too well off for them. We are under so much stress now that I'm afraid something's gonna break.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095604#Comment_119095604

Why do you feel you don't have the option. If you signed a fixed term lease for a year last December that lease is as binding on the landlord as it is on you.

Unless the lease makes explicit provision for the landlord to break the lease within that fixed one year term the landlord cannot end your tenancy before the year is up so long as you comply with your obligations under the lease.

Once you are there six months (sometime this June) you acquire part four tenancy rights under which you can remain in the property for another five and a half years, i.e. until December 2027.

See https://www.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/ending-a-fixed-term-tenancy/what-is-a-fixed-term-tenancy-what-is-a-part-4-tenancy

The landlord can only issue a notice of termination under very limited circumstances and any notice must comply with both the terms of your fixed term lease and the Residential Tenancy Act, whichever is the more favourable to you if there is any conflict between the terms of your lease and the Residential Tenancy Act.

Nothing you have posted indicates the landlord can legally terminate the fixed term lease you have both signed.

If it were me, I wouldn't be moving anywhere in a rush unless I had somewhere equally suitable to move to, including a fixed term lease giving me at least the same security of tenancy as I should have earned already where I am, and only then if I thought it was in my best interests.

jrosen

I think you need to speak to your landlord. Is he planning to rent the place or sell it? If he plans on selling it then you could stay and pay rent until the sale goes through. Its a win win for him and you.

I would contact RTB and Threshold and see where you stand. I dont think he can just evict you for no reason with such short notice.

Mrs OBumble

Of course you have a network: you have jobs, which means you have managers, colleagues and probably HR departments. You have friends, sports team mates, neighbours, ex- colleagues etc. Talk to all of these. That they have their own problems is irrelevant, you need just one of them to help you, and the only way to find that one is to ask them all.

Worst case, you pack a bag for the week, put your stuff into storage over a weekend, move out Monday morning and present yourself, bags in tow, to the council housing office. They will find somewhere for you to go.

Ozark707

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096595#Comment_119096595

Be prepared to pay double so

Ozark707

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119098161#Comment_119098161

Going down to the council is probably a good shout out at this stage. You have nothing to lose.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119099296#Comment_119099296

Right, but if the alternative is homelessness...

Cuddlesworth

OP, Lots of good advise here.

From a landlords perspective, it takes about 1 to 2 years on average to properly evict the worst tenants you can imagine. And it can cost them a significant amount of money if they try to evict illegally.

From the facts you have described, your landlord isn't able to evict until December as he signed a 1 year lease with you. There are actually reasons a lot of landlords don't give fixed term leases any more and this is one of them. It simply gives more rights to the tenant. Once its done, he start the process of eviction. In the meantime, I would keep looking for another place. And I wouldn't leave until you find one. You have a home, so stay there.

Also if you can, keep everything. Times, dates, messages. From the sounds of it, your landlord will probably try to pull a fast one like "moving in".

covidcustomer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096822#Comment_119096822

The only people you can go to are PRTB/Threshold and your logic for not doing this is, well, bizarre to be honest, what good is a reference if you can't find somewhere to rent?

PalLimerick

You could overhold.

houseyhouse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119099785#Comment_119099785

It’s not really overholding when the notice was illegal. Not disagreeing with your idea but I think it’s important that op has not been given proper notice and not just for some petty technical reason but because the ll is trying to screw them over.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119099785#Comment_119099785

Not a good thing to advise when everything is done correctly and legally by a landlord - it causes stress and possibly extra costs for a landlord and ensures the tenant will not get a reference and will appear on a public dispute register. Not a great help if a tenant is looking to rent somewhere else.

In this case there is no need for the OP to do anything illegal.

First thing they need to check is the lease to see if there is a break clause. If there is, then the landlord can give notice, provided it is a valid notice, ie, the correct number of days, correct form, copy sent to rtb etc

If there is no break clause, then the OP is in the middle of a one year fixed term lease that he signed last Dec and cannot be told to leave until the FTL term expires. At that stage, the OP will have gained part4 rights so the landlord can only give notice in certain circumstances.

If this landlord is trying to do something dodgy, then the OP should definitley contact the RTB. On the other hand, he might be like some small landlords who don't fully understand all the recent changes and he needs to be reminded of his tenants rights and his own obligations. Not an excuse for dodgy behaviour but genuine mistakes can happen.

Also, there is nothing to stop the OP and his landlord coming to a mutually beneficial agreement to end the FTL early, but it can't be demanded by the landlord.

People need to start sticking to the contracts they sign up to. The rental market needs to work for both parties, illegal behaviour by either tenants or landlords is totally unacceptable.

notAMember

That “talk to the landlord “ thing really only works with small landlords who are in the country. The type that current policy is stamping out. Op has described a non resident LL selling what sounds like a block, probably because of the new rules on rent increases. It’s one of the inevitable consequences of penalising the service providers for there not being enough service providers…

OP are your jobs transferable? Can you leave Dublin? I know that’s an awful shift when you potentially have children in school, but it may be a better move long term.

I agree with asking people you know (colleagues, neighbours, other parents nearby) about housing. Getting a place before it goes on the market is the best way to do it these days.

Donald Trump

Given that he still has his post coming there, are you sure you signed a lease and not some sort of purported licence agreement? He might try to claim that you are only a licencee. (However, regardless of what the agreement document calls itself, if it came down to it, a court could find that you had a lease)

bluelamp

Are you in Dublin? Contact the tenancy support service & threshold before your eviction date.

Homelessdublin.ie has phone numbers if you need emergency accommodation.

Put your family first - don't end up sleeping in a car or something daft, stay till you've something sorted.

I'm really sorry you're in this situation (that could happen to literally any renting family right now, regardless of income level).

It's honestly scary at this stage - an absolute failure for our country, we're on the cusp of having no homes available for people.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058246851/becoming-homeless-with-full-time-job

Loads of posts about RTB and checking for dots and crosses in the lease.

But your question of how did we get here?

Successive ministers pulling new rules for landlords out of their backside.

Legislation to make a simple agreement between two people not really an agreement at all.

Capping rents for people staying put, which really makes the jump very big when you do move.

Peoples willingness to go to the RTB at the drop of a hat and RTBs willingness to always take the side of the tenant.

Rogue tenants playing the system and being encouraged to by charities and councils. Making it worse for decent tenants who are the ones suffering because of their behavior.

All of this and more have added up to a thousand cuts that reduces the supply of rental property.

Thats how we got where we are.

How do you fix it? I dont think it can be at this point. Normal investors are out and REITs are in. Its just not work the risk/reward/hassle factor for the ordinary landlord at this point. Only supply coming on stream from now on will be REITs and councils.

Your landlord might be happy to let you stay for a while while you look, but does that weaken his position if you decide not to move out after that if you then have stayed over 6 months? Who knows what the legislation is at this point.

rightmove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106067#Comment_119106067

Summed up by the Astronaut Chris Hadfield quote: There Is No Problem so Bad You Can't Make It Worse

Agree totally with what you said above. When doing the popular/virtuous looking move is trumping doing the RIGHT thing. Right thing is often not popular and often take balls of steal to defend.