Is diesel on the way out as a comman fuel in cars? If so good.

AMKC

I see diesel is now more expensive than petrol good.

It has done more than enough damage and should only ever have been for trains, lorries, Commercial vehicles and Tractors.

Climate chance would be not anywhere near as bad if the majority of drivers over the last 14+ years had been driving petrol.

I am not saying it would not exist but it would not be as bad as well as other things too.

teediddlyeye

Ever stand at the side of the road in the US when there's lots of traffic?

The air is noticeably less smelly/cleaner than standing by the quays in Dublin. Pretty sure due to the lack of diesel passenger cars.

Even some of their commercial vehicles like busses are running natural gas/lpg. Makes it much quieter and cleaner.

Diesel engines when they were simple machines were the business for industrial use. But for modern engines in passenger cars, good riddance to them!!!

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058245933/is-diesel-on-the-way-out-as-a-comman-fuel-in-cars-if-so-good

Are you saying diesel cars driven in Ireland impacted climate change in Ireland or worldwide?

teediddlyeye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119065947#Comment_119065947

Who gives a fcuk?

They're a filthy solution wherever they're used.

I traded in a petrol golf for a diesel. Roughly same price to fill a tank.

The petrol would do about 700km

The diesel is doing about 1100km per tank.

Diesel is going nowhere anytime soon because of the fuel economy it offers.

johnnyskeleton

As far as I know, diesel emits less co2 but more particulates than petrol per km travelled on average.

This means that while it makes the air quality worse for humans in the vicinity of the cars, it isnt as bad as regards climate change generally.

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119066012#Comment_119066012

Yes it kills more people than petrol cars so in theory is better for the environment with less humans around.

teediddlyeye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119066012#Comment_119066012

The solution for the extra c02 from petrols is simply plant more trees.

All the other shite that comes out of a diesel is much more difficult to deal with.

sniperman

i love my diesel toyota rav 4,as im sure millions of others love their diesels,i hope its here to stay

ofcork

i just dont think small cars should ever have diesel engines the likes of fiestas etc.

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119065979#Comment_119065979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058245933/is-diesel-on-the-way-out-as-a-comman-fuel-in-cars-if-so-good

14 years ago I traded in a petrol for a diesel car based on what the greens said about lower emissions etc. they even reduced the ‘road tax’ as an incentive. Now 14 years later diesel is public enemy according to Ryan etc. yet I’m told he also drives a diesel SUV of some description.

Im not saying diesel is wrong but I’m wondering in 14 years time what will be the enemy?

Sorry, my 14 year old 407 is still going strong and Ryan or anybody else can spew all the nonsense they like, but my diesel car ain’t going anywhere.

maestroamado

Goes to show how much scientiest know when diesel were promoted as cleaner for about the last 15 years... Science worldwide has a huge budget yet they allowed themselves by car manafacture... Believing a car salesman is unbelievable...

The solution is less cars more trains...

PaulRyan97

It is definitely on the way out, much faster than everyone was expecting too. The pandemic sped up a process that begin in the middle of the last decade after Diesel gate.

Diesel's share of new car sales:

2016 - 70%

2019 - 47%

2022 YTD - 27%

Diesel options have vanished from a lot of smaller cars. Larger cars where diesel used to dominate are now often sold as some form of hybrid or fully electric.

By 2025 I would be surprised if diesel is managing to hold on to even 10% of sales. Petrol will last a bit longer but the road to electrification is already in full swing. I'd expect plug-in vehicles to account for half of all sales by 2025 and that we would meet the 100% target by end of decade.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119066100#Comment_119066100

If people weren't disincentivised to buy petrol with astronomical VRT and road tax rates then we wouldn't be where we are today. Why blame the individual when Govts actively encouraged the purchase of diesels to so called save the polar bears. In general people respond well to financial incentives so it's no wonder people are now swinging away from diesel now and it has little or nothing to do with the environment or health.

Ive even seen a thread where some guy was looking to see how he could be compensated for the few euro to charge his company car at home, despite all the financial advantage derived from driving an EV. Reality is all people care about is the euro in their pocket. The only reason more EVs aren't on the road already is that manufacturers are focusing on high end expensive EVs outside many peoples price range and can't or won't supply them in sufficent numbers.

When a plentiful supply or good value EVs are available then absolutely we'll hit the 100% target because it would be financially silly not to do so. How long that will take is anyone's guess at this stage.

bazz26

These virtue signalling threads make me laugh.

Replacing millions of diesel and petrol cars with electric cars will not solve climate change or save the planet. All it does is make those who can afford to do so, sleep easier at night thinking they have done their bit for the planet. The simple fact is that human society has been based on consumption. It's drilled into us that replacing or throwing away what we currently have with something new is better for everyone and the planet. No matter what nonsense is spouted, producing anything has a footprint and a cost to the planet irrespecitve of what green washing claims will be made The only one it truely benefits in the bank balance of the manufacturer selling it to you. Another laughable thing is that most diesel or petrol cars that people have swapped for electric ones, are still on the road being driven by someone else who isn't fortunate enough to be able to afford a "green" conscience.

And as for dieselgate, it's funny again how people talking about that is somehow showing us the way forward, as if lightning never strikes twice. It's even more ironic that one of the biggest car manufacturers responsible and inadvertentantly starting this new wave of greeness - VW, are now one of the biggest sellers of electric vehicles that people have no problem buying from. I guess we will probably have to wait another 15 years or so to see if the "current facts" available are lies or not too.

LIGHTNING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119066080#Comment_119066080

I don't remember anybody saying that.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119066071#Comment_119066071

Ryan himself admitted to owning a diesel.

wonski

Irish Government was promoting Diesel by lowering motor tax since 2008.

What they based this decision on I don't remember, but must have been some sort of science behind it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119065884#Comment_119065884

I noticed the noise difference massively a few years ago in Canada, would be outside having a smoke, well over half the traffic were pick-ups and mostly V8s and honestly it felt like silence. Took me a couple of minutes to figure out what was "wrong" til I copped the noise.

I've found the newer massive Tesco car parks horrible for particulates and that kind of shittiness. The smell (if you notice it) is horrible and within a couple of minutes I start getting a headache. I've spent hours at indoor go-karting with 2-strokes and while the smell is there it's different, the diesel fumes you just know are getting absolutely everywhere.

PaulRyan97

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119066331#Comment_119066331

You almost have a point but you don't seem to quite understand what electrification of our transport network is attempting to achieve.

Replacing millions of cars with EVs will of course not solve climate change, but it is an aid in our primary goal, reduction of global CO2 emissions. Over-consumption is of course an issue, we can't simply produce our way out of this crisis. We should be driving less, public transport should be developed enough that some people won't even need cars, that's another facet of the fight against climate change. However this takes time, infrastructure on that scale is expensive and incredibly slow to build, so what do you do in the mean time?

People are going to continue using their cars and they're going to continue buying new cars. You said it yourself, people who can't afford to buy new will drive older used cars, which means cars have a long lifespan nowadays, 15 years+ easily. So do you want the new cars they're buying to be petrol or diesel if they'll still be on the roads by the late 2030s? It would mean there would be a smaller used EV market available for those looking for them, continuing to tie them to ICE cars. That demand for those fossil fuels will help prop up one of the most carbon intensive industries on the planet for longer than we would like. The emissions produced by those cars per km driven in 2022 will still be the same in 2037.

However if they instead buy a new EV (which admittedly does emit more CO2 in the production phase but is generally recouped within two years) they will be aiding manufactures in achieving economies of scale (helping reduce production costs and thus lowering the entry barrier) as well as ensuring a used EV will be available for someone looking to buy it in a few years. Unlike the ICE car, the indirect CO2 produced by driving the EV (from the electricity generation) will be considerably less in 2037 than in 2022 as the electrical grid continues to decarbonise. There's also the added bonus that the battery packs in these cars can re-purposed once the car is off the road for use in energy storage applications.

As for your concern that VW is now hiding the fact that there electric cars actually powered by a four cylinder diesel engine in the glove box, I would say it is not well founded. VW have transformed themselves to a massive EV company because of dieselgate. That company got a complete shake-up afterwards and they realised that going green was the only way to rebuild public support.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119065947#Comment_119065947

I am saying that diesel cars driven in Ireland the UK and Europe have impacted Climate Chance Worldwide.

macvin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119066897#Comment_119066897

My cat is happy with whiskas ,😊

Diesel type fuel is used for home heating (kerosene), air travel (aviation fuel), marine craft and for power generation in some countries.

Petrol cars became more efficient, electric and hybrid came in and that naturally saw diesel sales drop

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

A handful of cruise ships emit more nox than all of the worlds cars combined. Then there's aviation etc. The banning of certain fuels is absolutely futile and only serves to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119066041#Comment_119066041

And a very good car your Rav4 is and I hope it lasts for a long time but it can't be replaced.

They are only available in Hybrid or PHEV now.

Of course it makes sense to work through our current stock of cars on the road but they are the last of the breed.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058245933/is-diesel-on-the-way-out-as-a-comman-fuel-in-cars-if-so-good

Oh please! Even if everyone in this country walked everywhere, it would make almost zero impact on climate change - not so long as countries like China, India, and the US continue to do whatever they want in that regard, not to mention Putin's current "adventures" in Ukraine.

The sanctimonious virtue-signalling dripping in this post ("good" indeed!) and suggestion that we should all have been driving petrols all along is the same green nonsense that I'd expect from the likes of Eamon Ryan - maybe true and nice in theory, but completely at odds with reality, which in this country is a very car dependent society due to inadequate or non-existent public transport options (especially outside Dublin or the other "cities"), coupled with housing policies and poor decision making that have forced more and more people into the surrounding counties, but who are then expected to trek back in every weekday for work (even in a post-Covid world, not everyone can WFH), or just those who live in rural areas anyway.

I am sick of this narrative over particularly the last 3 years that we should all live like peasants, owning nothing and giving up the few luxuries/necessities people can still afford so people like the OP (and the Greens) can have a warm dose of "de feelz"

Come back to me when the other countries I mentioned take the (latest) "crisis" seriously!

elperello

There was a few comments about E Ryan's wheels.

As far as I know he is still using a diesel VW Transporter minibus which was part of his cycle tours business.

I don't know how much he uses it.

It's a 2003 which might be good news for the rest of us if it indicates that government policy is to use cars for their lifespan rather than put them off the road for environmental reasons.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119067076#Comment_119067076

That would require insurers to stop treating 10+ year old cars that are in otherwise perfect condition as though they're liable to fall apart at any moment.

Montage of Feck

I expect the Chinese to start swamping the car market with crappy EV's very soon. They have classic brands such as MG and the mines in Congo for the raw materials.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119067089#Comment_119067089

That is an issue all right..

And they contradict themselves by writing policies no problem at all for existing policy holders while penalising someone who just bought an older car.

An NCT should not be enough proof that the car is roadworthy.

Back Home

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119066331#Comment_119066331

Spot on bazz26

George Carlin was ahead of his time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W33HRc1A6c

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119066897#Comment_119066897

My understanding is that as diesel cars are more efficient than equivalent petrol so if your sole concern is the impact of CO2 on climate change solely climate, you should be supporting the use of diesel cars over petrol. Of course its more complicated than that.

cgcsb

Certainly there will be a diesel ban in the city centres that will probably be brought in alongside some sort of congestion charge or a tax on parking in the near future. That will reduce the re-sale value of diesels fairly sharply.

As for emissions and natural resources. Moving a single person around in a one tonne steel box on wheels is extremely energy inefficient even if that energy comes form mostly renewable sources. Creating more livable cities that are densely populated, walkable and car-free or almost car-free is what will really reduce emissions and waste of resources. The government keeps saying they'll build more homes on brownfield sites in city centres and redevelop derelict buildings but doesn't seem to be happening.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119066359#Comment_119066359

The lower takings are attributed to a decision taken by the former Fianna Fáil/Green Party administration to tax cars registered after July 2008 based on their carbon dioxide emissions, prior to which cars were taxed according to engine size.

Strumms

I’m in a major busy Dublin suburb which has me…and neighbours

3.1 kilometres from the nearest suburban train station.

3.0 kilometres from the nearest Luas

Im about at current pace and hints by government 12 - 15 years from being able to use a fûcking metro.

the nearby bus takes me to the city but any other regular destinations of mine such as the gym, airport, shopping centre, dentist, family are not served by a direct bus or public transport route…. the changes would take absolutely multiples of time and effort….

dentist… 1 hr 16 minutes by public transport, driving 24 minutes.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119067320#Comment_119067320

And that's what really has to change. Swapping diesel cars for electric cars isn't the solution. Functioning public transport, walking and cycling is. That being said public transport has really improved in the past few months. You can now pay a €2, 90minute fare with unlimited changes and there are now multiple 24hr bus routes, more investment is clearly needed but I do think we're moving in the right direction.

maestroamado

I think the manafacture of cars have a huge impact on climate change but there is no mention of that... I was talking to a senior EPA officer a few years ago and we were talking in general terms about climate change... He was after changing his car and it had a nice new front bumper...

I said to him... how many plastic bags would it take to make the bumper... reply a good few...

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119067058#Comment_119067058

That is the wrong attitude to have. If we done nothing thet certainly will not so we all have to do our bit and hope that they finally cop on and start doing there bit too.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119067366#Comment_119067366

Prices in the right direction but we don’t have the transport infrastructure.

id rather fares remained high IF it meant I could walk out my front door and utilise an integrated, modern, efficient, far reaching public transport system.. i and WE cannot.

Copenhagen Metro…

4 lines

39 stations

population… 805,000 in the greater Copenhagen area….

Dublin Metro…

years away

1/2 lines

population… 1.43 million

problem with this country is our mindset…. Instead of … ‘ need it, build it ‘….. ‘well lets see if we can’t help and what would xyx think… and wow errrr.. ‘

get it fücking done… give people what they want, need, and deserve… fûck planners, builders etc…. Don’t want the work for a fair price there is plenty more experience and expertise and indeed better of the above on the continent… get them in.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119067214#Comment_119067214

Yes but diesel emits lots of other bad particles.

Not A hope of me ever supporting diesel cars terrible things.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119067419#Comment_119067419

Ahh I get it now. You actually think that Ireland is some sort of big player on the international stage and that others actually care what we do or will follow our example if we just show them the way.

You're living in a fantasy world I'm afraid but that's generally the case with virtue signalling like this. It tends not to last too long in the face of that inconvenience called reality.

Dial Hard

I keep reading the thread title as "conman fuel".

wonski

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119067428#Comment_119067428

What about Kia Sportage diesel?

Terrible thing.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119067424#Comment_119067424

Indeed, frustrating how slow progress is. The ten year transport strategies are all the same every 10 years, government doesn't bother actually implementing them. But lately there has been some real progress. Planning gone in for 2 new bus corridors in the past month. One of the new DART lines is going to ABP shortly. But yes painfully slow and these projects should have been completed 30 years ago

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119067554#Comment_119067554

Good car terrible engines. Any diesel engine is a terrible thing.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119067451#Comment_119067451

Basically everyone in the world can point the finger at everyone else and then nothing will be done. Ireland is a small country buy we share significant amounts of environmental policy with the rest of the EU which is the wealthiest part of the world and home to the biggest consumers, we have the ability to make changes here which round be a lot more helpful that sitting back and pointing the finger at others. There's a lad in China right now pointing the finger at Europe, its a waste of effort.

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119067593#Comment_119067593

Midlands air seems fine to me.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119067600#Comment_119067600

Given the fact that the Greens only got 7% of the vote of those who turned out at the last GE, and that their approval ratings have continued to slide since, I think you'll find that most people have far more pressing concerns (such as trying to find/keep a roof over their heads, pay for the ever increasing costs of living, deal with the mess that we call a health service etc) than worrying about (once again) being the "good boys of Europe" by prostrating ourselves before the Green agenda.

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119067593#Comment_119067593

Says who?

Like I said above only 14 years ago, Saint Eamon's bunch bleated about how GOOD a diesel engine was. So, who knows whats good and not good?

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119067058#Comment_119067058

Excellent post!!!

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119067613#Comment_119067613

What midlands town? They're usually choked with turf smoke in the winter

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119067657#Comment_119067657

At the current rate of ecological decline, feeding ourselves will be an even greater difficulty in the future so the 'green agenda' is sort of essential to our survival also