Cycling against oncoming traffic

2 Wheels Good

Not sure when it started, but in the last 2/3 years i'm seeing more and more people in Cork city (and in my brief visits to Dublin the same) cycling against oncoming traffic.

Just curious how/why this is happening, seems an accident waiting to happen. Maybe it's a country thing, or maybe as corny as the safe cross code was back in the day it stuck but I was never inclined to put myself at greater risk cycling in the city.

whatchagonnado

Yes, have seen this a lot in Dublin and surrounding areas. Madness. There is a particular junction near my house where cyclists and electric scooter users do it frequently, a nightmare if you are turning left onto the main road. Someone will be hit one day.

I think it's ignorance, yes, a safety campaign might be useful.

o1s1n

Funny you mention this as I'm starting to notice it a lot more in Dublin lately, only commented on it this morning to someone. Cyclists going the wrong direction in the cycle track coming at me head on. Seems to be particularly bad on the quays.

tnegun

There seem to be a lot more people on bikes/scooters than ever before which is great but a lot of education is needed along with improvements in road design. I experience it quite frequently in the mornings heading towards Leixlip at Intel particularly if a train has just called to the station you can have 3/4 people on the wrong side of the road using the cycle lane to get to Intel and then in the opposite direction in the evening kids coming from the amenities traveling in the wrong direction in the cycle lane.

secman

Saw a lunatic on a scooter yesterday , i was coming from Wexford to Dublin, he was coming against traffic on n11 along slip road for Bray,and just turned up the slip road, madness 😠

Macy0161

Whatever about cyclists, how would they run a safety campaign for PPT's when they're illegal to use?

Maybe scooter users see themselves more akin to pedestrians though? Most times I come across it with bikes it's to do with multiple road/ carriageway crossings, and normally teenagers tbh.

Gerry

Some basic education from the RSA would help here. and some enforcement from AGS. not even fines, just stop people and have a word.

jack of all

I see it a lot, it really started with the lockdown I think. I began to observe people cycling on paths first off, then the scooters entered the scene, on paths and roads, and within a year it seemed that paths and roads were a free for all, contra flow etc. I cycle to work myself on the odd day and on a steep incline on the way home I would often have to watch out for another cyclist and scooter user in tandem coming at speed towards me as I legally cycle uphill with the flow of traffic, watching out for parked cars etc. It's not just teenagers either, plenty of grown adults cycling on footpaths and contra flow on the roads also.

AckwelFoley

My experience with cyclists is, that its the casual cyclists that's the major prick on the road that irritate people. Ie, the guy that pulls the old bike out of the shed to with no reflectors, a light at night would only be a pipe dream. I've seen lads in the pitch dark, no high viz no lights stroll down the road..same lads thinks Traffic lights are advisory.

The vast vast majority that use the bike for regular commute, and or the 40 mile Saturday run tend to be properly geard up and follow proper road use.

I can't say I've ever seen anyone cycle contraflow in traffic. On a footpath yes but not on the road

Macy0161

I should've clarified, I've only experienced it cycle paths, not on the actual road.

magicbastarder

My experience with cyclists is, that its the casual cyclists that's the major prick on the road that irritate people.

on the other hand, i've seen many comments online specifically about the well kitted out, experienced cyclists being the real menace.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044453#Comment_119044453

I was on the busy N3 at the weekend... 2 very fancy bilkes side by side about 3 metres apart and cars behing them... if they were single file no problem... they can have a chat over a few pints...

magicbastarder

FWIW, cycling against the oncoming traffic is referred to as salmoning.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045175#Comment_119045175

I do see that. However the argument is that they're entitled to use the road, and also that its done because its safer. The latter argument I dont agree with and I personally wouldn't, because it takes one bollocks to be on Facebook and wipe you out of it. I'd rather my chances closer to the verge

cletus

Maybe they're just hotlining...

magicbastarder

cyclists cycling 3m apart? probably an entire lane width apart? my first reaction is i don't believe it. second is well, stranger things have happened, and my third reaction (with my mod hat on) is a sinking feeling that this thread is in danger of becoming a cyclist bashing one.

nevertheless, to take you at face value, you saw a single cyclist misbehaving at the weekend. stop the presses.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045226#Comment_119045226

I seen the same actually heading from mullingar to athlone Sunday afternoon. I wouldn't say 3 meters apart or anything close, but there was a line off traffic behind them that couldn't pass because of oncoming traffic.

Irritating for drivers, but apparently entitled to do it

Macy0161

Drivers were lucky it wasn't a tractor, which would be significantly wider! Singling out can just encourage close passes, as drivers try to squeeze by.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045242#Comment_119045242

Not worse than getting stuck behind a tractor, but there should be some etiquette involved.

I pull in if there's more than one car behind me and no chance to overtake.

RE cycling on the wrong side, there's a few roads in Cork with cycle lanes on only one side. Maybe people think they're bidirectional?

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045242#Comment_119045242

to break that down - let's say the lane was 3.2m wide (which i think is the standard width for a 120km/h motorway lane, but i'll use it as a starting point). cycling in single file, a cyclist would usually cycle say 50cm out from the side of the road, and say the cyclist is 50cm wide. we've already lost 1m. and on that road, the guidance is for someone overtaking to give 1.5m space, so we're at 2.5m of road used. then add the width of the car, at say 2m. so the driver's side of the car is now 4.5m from the extreme left of his or her lane - i.e. 1.3m into the oncoming lane.

in that instance, the car cannot pass even a single cyclist without committing to a full overtake - i.e. the oncoming lane must be clear, so it's moot as to whether there is one or two cyclists abreast, because the entire oncoming lane must be clear in either scenario.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045226#Comment_119045226

I always have a doubt on people who think posters here are telling lies... it eas at least 3 meters as the combined wdith was wider than the car that was in front of me...

Also if you don't agree with the boss your trouble...

magicbastarder

don't believe everything someone with a stupid username tells you online.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045242#Comment_119045242

They have no courtesy to other users... generally no cop-on like magic here...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045493#Comment_119045493

It a poster said what you just said they be warned... generally people that are losing the game get angry... yer magic toch fading...

Eamonnator

Sometimes I find it difficult to detect sarcasm online, but really........

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045549#Comment_119045549

This is a literary masterpiece.

I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

CramCycle

Just to put it in perspective, a typical modern double decker is 2.55m wide, so these cyclists were cycling far enough apart that a DB bus could have made it between them(dangerously admittedly). That is what is being claimed, f*ck me, I am going back to smoking crack, life is just too unbelievable for me to deal with right now. On the N3, 2 cyclists side by side were cycling with one of their handlebars hanging over into the overtaking lane.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047466#Comment_119047466

I did not measure but the with of the car in front of me plus... Dublin bus may well have being able to drive between the two but there would not have been 1.5 metres either side... i cycle myself and some of the stuff i see is crazy but thats what bikers are like these days (hells angels) we do as we please...

I meant to say this earlier i have the same opinion on tractors but because... your on the magic team... we are the bosses and we do as we please...

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119046909#Comment_119046909

How come that does not suprise me...

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047146#Comment_119047146

Or Deliveroos, but that's an entirely different category

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047359#Comment_119047359

Do you need my account details... Just leave €20 a week in a little envelope under the stone on your bike run...

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047601#Comment_119047601

It's more a case of a story being so unlikely that, it's possible you mistook a situation. 3m puts them, if both in the driving lane, on the white line either side. The N3 is an awful road to cycle on, and bar intersections, most people will cycle in the hard shoulder. If in the hard shoulder, at 3m, there is plenty of space to overtake even if the outer rider is in the driving lane. I think they'd be foolish to do and I'd think you'd be hard pressed to find many cyclist who disagrees. The few parts (close to Dublin), I'd be out in the lane if I had to use it until the hard shoulder reappeared. Otherwise lads will skim past you at 120kmph. I'm not saying you are lying, it could be true, nothing surprises me anymore but just because nothing surprises me doesn't mean I won't question the unlikely, as I am sure you would too.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045267#Comment_119045267

Personally I think it's just bad road manners. I cycle a bit myself and wouldn't do it except on quiet country roads when there is no traffic coming up behind. Cycling contra flow in cycle lanes should be stamped out by other cyclists.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047882#Comment_119047882

It was the Dublin side of Virginia and there was a hard sholder which is lined and is really why i noticed... It was car width and i now realize car not 3 metres wide... the inside bike was on the road side of the hard sholder and the other bike a car width out... thats what i saw... i wasn't held up for any serious time but it was the way they seem to have no regard that i noticed...

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045493#Comment_119045493

don't stop talking to me because we had a spat... i can explain my silly name... can you magicbastard

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119048995#Comment_119048995

MOD VOICE: Cut it out, all he said was he didn't believe you and he was concerned the thread would descend into cyclist bashing. Any more of this petty back and forth and the person who does it next takes a holiday from the forum. Any further discussion about this via PM only

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047952#Comment_119047952

There is very little hard shoulder there, barely enough to get a bike in for most of it. I hate this road as much as the Dublin end of it but it is a no win situation (I have family in Cavan so have been there quite a bit), the hard shoulder/path for alot of it is filled with debris and isn't much wider than a bike. You sit in there, you get skimmed by annoying f*ckheads who don't realise that the difference in their 120 vs 80 on the N road sections is only a few minutes even whne they are going the whole way to Dublin. You sit in it and you get skimmed, would I ride on the road, nope, but sadly thats more to do with the fact that they are going to skim me anyway, nothing to do with manners. As for the two abreast, if you can overtake one safely, you can overtake both. It looks more annoying but that is only a trick of the mind, a good safe driver will be as long overtaking one as two. So long story short, it appeared rude and annoying but in reality it was all in peoples heads and if they sat down and thought it through, it made very little difference.

I'm not defending them by the way, I think if they are local they know what sh1tty driving to expect there, so they either aren't local or they are and realise that you may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb, at least in theory, the sheep is a safer bet.

maestroamado

I think there should be an offence for obstructing traffic for all users... single file cycling should be encouraged where there is traffic... sh1tty driving is the same as sh1tty cycling...

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050326#Comment_119050326

It was pointed out earlier in the thread that single file cycling tends to result in more dangerous passes, however counterintuitive that might be.

Now, if you're looking at it from a driving perspective, that may not be a concern for you, but considering this is a cycling forum, posters here would view the situation from the point of view of the cyclist. Then it becomes a much bigger issue

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050753#Comment_119050753

So we only talk about the bits you want to... most people and especially the mods have an agenda... how would double be safer... no more than 6 in a group unless its organized and has stewards... i just want to make it safer for all... i have never seen the carry-on that happens abroad...

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050946#Comment_119050946

So they are traffic which makes my point more valid... i often see twenty bikes 10x2 and they do obstruct traffic.. i will say what i please as we have freedom of speech... are you saying we haven't...

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045242#Comment_119045242

If there was oncoming traffic then you should not be overtaken 1 bike or 2

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050946#Comment_119050946

The 2 abreast on the road I refer to is one thing, frankly, I don't feel comfortable riding on any national road with no hard shoulder because I'd be uncomfortable at the risk of some tit on Facebook launching me.

That said, when I use a tractor, I'm entitled, slow as it may be to be on the road, and I do when possible pull in if there is a significant line of traffic behind me.

I understand the argument and benefits proposed , but frankly I don't see the benefit, personally I see a higher risk of getting hit. But that's merely my opinion

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119051023#Comment_119051023

I agree but if there is a line of cars behind the bikes are causing an obstruction and its an offence...

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/98/enacted/en/html

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119051053#Comment_119051053

BS. That is not in relation to moving legal vehicles.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119051074#Comment_119051074

So the people on bicycles can do as they please... thats exactly what is happening and its wrong and dangerous... when there is a serious it will be looked at... its waiting to happen...

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119051205#Comment_119051205

I agree with you they have no responcibility... its the other guy...

CreadanLady

I have done it fairly frequently. Cycle the wrong way down a cycle lane or against the flow of traffic on a one way street.

But I do try to do it in a way that isn't a danger or cause a hazard or annoyance to other road users, whether they be motorists or pedestrian and give them due space and courtesy.

Why? Well, usually because the alternative way around via the one way system is too awkward or long.

I will also admit that i do pass red traffic lights from time to time. But before anyone jumps down my throat about it, i want to say that i do not do so with flagrant disregard to safety. I don't shoot across junctions at speed with eyes closed screaming i don't give a fúck. I take a measured risk, slow down, look up and down and carry on if i am satisfied that it is safe to do so and that I wouldn't endanger anyone. If I have to stop, I will.

Sure, I get the occasional fist waved in my direction by taxi drivers and overweight middle aged men. But I honestly couldn't care less what some taxi driver thinks.

I would probably think twice about doing it in front of a Garda car but at the end of the day I am not worried about getting caught by the Gardai. They are not going to say anything unless you act the complete donkey. And even then, they can't do anything to you.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119051309#Comment_119051309

That's the kinda tricks i would be up to... pissing-off the taxi drivers i love it...

I was talking to a guy recently and he said Gardai now have the power to seize and destroy bikes that are being used in Coillte wooded walks etc... he seemed to know what he was talking about and said it was introduced in recent months...

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050806#Comment_119050806

I've no idea what you're talking about, to be honest.

Cabaal

Locally I've have to cycle the wrong way up a one way street now and then, its not a very busy street and if something is oncoming I pull into the footpath area.

But I'm left with no choice, I'm pulling a cycle trailer with my young lad and the council in all the wisdom changed the street to one way about 18 months ago. I have two alternative routes.

• A seperate bridge which is only open upto 5.30pm on weekdays
• An extremely dangerous 100km road with a basically non-existant hardshoulder with the junction I need to make it to on a uphill section. I cycled it once and there's no way I'd endanger my kid by cycling it with the trailer again. There's been countless collisions with cars and trucks at the junction as well. It's lethal.

Am I breaking the law? Well that is debatable as apparently the street has cycle lanes.

When the council changed the street to one-way and announced the changes when it re-opened they say it has cycle LANES (yes, more then one). Now there's no signs or paint markings and I've written to the council about it but they've not responded. But yet they claimed it has some cycle lanes.

Also, worth noting that as part of making the street one way the council installed hundreds of bollards. Due to these in places the street is too narrow for even a bike to pass within the bollard area thats the supposed footpath/cycle lane. Never mind a bike with a cycle trailer.

Seems to me the council have people designing stuff that don't know what a bike looks like.

Would I cycle the street infront of a Garda?, yeah I would. To the gardai if I cycled on the footpath I'd be wrong but the council seem to think that footpath is also a cycle lane so I'm happy to bring more attention to their thoughtless design.

CreadanLady

[quote] A seperate bridge which is only open upto 5.30pm on weekdays [/quote]

Lol, where is this that the bridges only work council hours? Do they close for an hour at 10.30am and 2 hours at lunchtime too?