Picard 2x10 - 'Farewell' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

ilovesmybrick

Picard 2x10 - 'Farewell' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** } Warning: This thread will contain spoilers 

ilovesmybrick

Well, that was a distinctly unsatisfying conclusion. Not only did they fridge the best new character of the live action Trek in Rios, they also brought back possiby the two least interesting in Wesley Crusher and Elnor. Jesus when I saw that stupid grin on Wil Wheatons face..Christ.

No idea what was wrong with Q, except he was a bit sad and lonely? We'll just ignore the idea that something that can be killing a being like Q is fundamentally more interesting.

Seven gets a field command, for very little reason I can see (since presumably Admiral Picard, who also was a borg, could have done the exact same, go here and raise shields). Also, (yet another) random thing going to destroy the universe introduced in the last 15 minutes? I'm not saying that I want more random end of the universe rubbish from new Trek, but a bit of explanation or background might be nice. Could have even spent an episode on it in all the faffing about the past few episodes.

I think Picard summed it up well in his heart to heart with Q. What was the point of it all.

Season one worked reasonably well as a binge. I'm not sure it will be the same here. Some nice parts to be sure, but too many hanging plot lines at the end, poor pacing, and a lack of focus ruined it. I was one of the ones initially who thought that ignoring Times Arrow was a deliberate choice, but by bringing back Guinan in this episode it is crystal clear that they never even considered that two parter, just straight up forgot about it. Whereas they remembered that Traveller episode with Crusher (presumably because Wheaton nagged them about it).

Also Q's lesson (ignoring the 'aren't we all lonely' crap, was essentially the same lesson as Tapestry. You became who you are through the actions of your past. They did that episode thirty years ago, and far better. The emotional connection between Picard and Q makes no sense in the context of this season, They barely interacted and Q's input is minimal, and unclear at best. There were some interesting stories in the season to be fair, but it seems like the writers couldn't actually find them in all the extraneous rubbish. The ICE story, the FBI agent, what's happening with Q, the bloody universe ending thingymagig at the end. No development or point to them in the end bar pushing to a deeply unsatisfactory conclusion.

A great start to the season, but the writers couldn't get past the writing and plot issues that surround all of the new live action shows so far.

AMKC

You know what that was not bad at all. I enjoyed that. Just a pity about all the filler episodes in between. I thought there was some nice twists in this too.

I really thought they got the music spot on in this too.

I will watch it again. I think I might watch episode 1, 2 maybe 3 and this again and that is all you need.

No need for all the filler nonsense.

ilovesmybrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119018206#Comment_119018206

Yeah actually, that's a decent point, first few episodes and the finale and you know everything you need to in the season. There was so much meandering and extra faffing about in the last five episodes that it ruined my good will for the season. The finale though was far too rushed, should have been split into two so we at least have some idea what's going on.

TheValeyard

Decent enough, but we should have reached this conclusion around episode 5 or 6. No need for it to be that long.

Spear

I thought it was a decent finale. The Europa mission stuff was gotten out of the way promptly and effectively.

The sudden swing into a major galactic threat of the giant transwarp conduit was fairly jarring. But presumably it's the setup for season 3 so it was inevitable to fill that need. Even a few lines from Jurati pointing out that this was their end objective before hand would've smoothed the way, rather than after it.

A lot of plotlines were tied off nicely enough. Q and Picard's thread comes to end through some mutual respect. Wesley gets some continuation of his path. The appearance of him felt fairly forced though, but it's brief enough, and it confirms the suspicion that the watchers had time travel based assistance.

It's just a shame the season was so flat throughout the middle of it's run. Trimming down by 25 to 30% would've really helped, particularly the FBI episode which served no purpose.

_Kaiser_

I'd echo a lot of the above - decent enough as a standalone episode/finale, but the (almost) second half after Q sends them home just highlights how much time was wasted in between.

Wesley's reappearance and the idea that the Travellers were Gary 7's mysterious benefactors.. I guess! Seemed forced in to give not-Soji an ending. Similarly Soong going on to be involved with the creation of Khan - more convenience and unnecessary constriction of the Trek universe

Nice scenes between Q and Picard as well, but I'd also agree that it was largely just a retreading of Tapestry. Would have liked to find out more about what was actually going on with Q. Is he ascending to the next level of being or something (there was a vague hint of that in what he said), or actually dying?

Seems a bit odd that with a super transwarp conduit and threat on a horizon that everyone just heads back to Earth for a pint with Guinan and so Jean Luc can make up with Laris. I would have expected a more direct cliff-hanger for season 3, but never mind!

corkie

@_Kaiser_

Similarly Soong going on to be involved with the creation of Khan - more convenience and unnecessary constriction of the Trek universe

Raised my eyebrows at that point as well. Project Khan, 'for Pete's sake!'

Does Wesley's appearance rule him out for next season, didn't hear him been mentioned appearing in that?

https://screenrant.com/picard-season-2-finale-wesley-crusher-cameo-explained/

Warning episode breakdown is already published, so spoilers in below link.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Farewell_%28episode%29

pah

I threw up in my mouth a few times.

eadrom

One of the better episodes of the season. Like there was stuff in here that they should have given time to throughout the season and it's too little too late for the series as a whole but I enjoyed this episode.

Good to see Wesley Crusher. I'd hoped he'd show up and I thought it was just a nice little scene, cool to see that he's still traveling away. Still though, just crammed into a couple of minutes in the final episode and totally inconsequential. And why is he picking up not-Soji? That seemed entirely random or am I missing something.

Soong was fine. "PROJECT KHAN" though. Jesus I am sick of that guy.

Rios is staying behind, and even got killed off in backstory. That's a damn shame. Seven as captain of the Stargazer sounds fun, but still. Rios was the best character they had.

Q is dying. Ugh. Why? Why is he dying? Think that might have been a good thing to set a few episodes around? No? Just monologue it in the last 20 minutes of the season and then hug it out and die? Ok cool, yeah. Absolute travesty of a waste. His scenes were golden, just not enough of them or to them.

Borg alliance. I just don't care anymore.

Guinan remembers Rios, who used to come in to "10 Forward, Ave" (:rolleyes:) whenever he was in town. And remembers Picard from 2024. In a different **** dimension/timeline/whatever. Still no Time's Arrow I bet.

Dreadful stuff overall. Enjoyed the episode anyway.

fritzelly

Liked the Trek bits as for the rest underwhelmed as I am with the whole season - off to look at SNW

sioda

I liked it even the Crusher cameo but sceptical about season 3 tbh.

Q Picard scenes were excellent as always

CastorTroy

What episode was Wesley referring to when he said a joke changed history?

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119021551#Comment_119021551

I'm pretty sure it's just a throw away joke, and not an episode reference.

mewso

Was actually ok (all be it a too quick resolution to the whole thing) up to Soong's Project Khan folder. Went downhill fast though:-

Project Khan - enough already.

Q actually loves Picard, time for a hug - good Lord the decimation of Q is complete.

Rios stays behind - the timeline has been abused so much who cares.

Elnor is back - Another inserted comment from a character (Picard - watch closely you only hear him say it "what did he say? a surpise, a gift") because the audience can't be trusted to get it.

Aunt Renee - because everybody knows everybody in new trek.

eadrom

Which "timeline" did they go back to? Does anyone (on the Picard writers team) even care? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills just thinking about it.

I know timey-wimey stuff can be messy at the best of times. But..

1. Series started in the "timeline" we all know and love (timeline A)
2. NuBorg came in from a another dimension/timeline (timeline B)
3. Q sent Picard and friends to timeline B, same year as before
4. Picard and crew went back to 2024 in timeline B. This is why (supposedly) Guinan has no knowledge of Time's Arrow, because it never happens in Timeline B
5. Blah blah blah and everything is resolved
6. Q sends them back to where they started. So, timeline A?
7. At the end of the episode, Guinan clearly remembers the events from 2024 in timeline B and has a photo and stories to tell about Rios and family. Who apparently were instrumental in saving the planet (of course they were). Still no mention of Time's Arrow.

So, where the feck are they now? Has timeline B just become the main timeline? Did they merge or something? If timeline B doesn't exist, or at least not the way it did, or if it actually now the "main" timeline, then where did NuBorg Queen come from?

It's crazy. It's lazy. It's piss poor tbh.

AMKC

Yes I hated the Project Khan folder on Doctor soongs computer. First of all they are 3 decades too late. That happens or is supposed to have happened in the 90s.

So that was a downer but yes seeing Wesley in it was good and he should have been in it sooner.

I do agree the all of a sudden big Galaxy threat bit was a bit rushed and as another poster above said this episode could have been better if it was as two parts not so rushed.

The Q and Picard scenes were good.

I will watch season 3 of it hoping that Pucard gets a good send off and the rest of the crew too.

CastorTroy

Going by what they said, what happened is what already happened. Like a predestination paradox. So they're in the same timeline they were in at the beginning, minus Rios. And think this Borg is from this timeline.

Picard said the bullet holes were there when he was a child and he wondered where they had come from and then Guinan said the photo of Rios and family had always been in her place and Picard had just never noticed.

pah

Lads, it was dreadful, awful, terrible sh1te with absolutely no redeeming qualities. I've so much to say but I don't think I can put in the effort. I just want to forget I ever watched this show.

eadrom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119023327#Comment_119023327

I think that nearly works except for the Time's Arrow problem. That's just too big an event, and an episode (2 episodes!), to leave out by accident so it must be an indicator that the 2024 they went back to wasn't the 2024 from their own past.

But the 2400 they return to at the end of the season is shown (by the photo and Guinan's own recollections) to be the continuation of the 2024 we saw throughout the season.

I dunno. Clearly they decided to leave Time's Arrow behind and thought they could wave it away with "ohhh, time travel's weird". I don't think it worked.

Rawr

Better than the Season 1 ending, but only marginally.

What an awful waste of an opportunity. Not terrible, not unwatchable, but a senseless waste of a chance to tell a good story. They could have trimmed away the Renee Picard stuff and made the future based around Soogn f***ing things up and maybe just maybe they could have filled a 10 episode season with a coherent plot instead of phoning in like they did with 5 episodes of ideas spread very thinly over double that amount.

Also; Congrau-f***ing-lations Will Wheaton. All your years of shilling for Kurtzman has bought you a 3 minute cameo that didn’t need to be there, and will likely ensure that you can’t appear again. Hope you enjoyed it.

Finally, why do the Borg Collective need help from Starfleet to make a shield with 20+ ships when they have 1000s of Cubes a transwarp trip away and assimilated that shield tech years ago?! Bloody hell that was badly thought through.

On a plus side…the Q stuff was nicely done in the end. They didn’t use him enough, but at least they didn’t ruin him.

I probably still will watch Season 3, but alas like all of Discovery and Season 1, I really doubt I’ll rewatch this…

Evade

Paraphrasing - Q: "Why does it always have to be galaxy ending stakes?"

Not 5 minutes later, a galactic anus opens up and is threatening the entire galaxy

Why did any of us watch this ****?

JayRoc

-I'm staying behind

-What? You'll knacker the timeline, as we've been saying all season

-Yeah, no, I'm in love etc

-Oh, sorry, didn't realise. Carry on

JayRoc

The Picard/Q scene was good, to be fair, due entirely to the chemistry the pair have and the actors involved.

But c'mon...Q had about 5 mins screen time in the whole season after most of the publicity stuff put John De Lancie and Pee Stew on every ad together.

CastorTroy

I suppose I should watch Time's Arrow to see what the fuss is about. 😀 Then I can join in with the complaining.

corkie

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Time%27s_Arrow_%28episode%29

For anyone that doesn't have easy access to watching it?

Slydice

Oh yeahhhh! That was the good stuff!

Really enjoyed that.

Everything was just so well thought out and done and the nostalgia and the feels an the defusing of tension!

and plenty left on the table for a possible season three

A transwarp corridor eh! Let's be having some of that!

Greyjoy

A decent enough finale but every part of it felt rushed as the writers scrambled to tie up all the myriad plot threads they kept introducing throughout this season. If I had to sum up this season of Picard the word that comes to mind first is 'redundant'. So many different storylines, characters and even whole episodes could have been excised from the season without impacting the overall story in any significant way.

nothing

I mostly enjoyed the whole season though it was a little slow for my liking.

Is there a Travellers spin off being set up?

My head canon is that the big explody thing at the end was Q dying, but that's probably nonsense.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119023327#Comment_119023327

I think it is safe to say that the timeline they returned to was the one they left. Well, at least that is what the writer's were going for. It doesn't make any sense though. The Borg queen is a completely different person for a start. Was the original Borg queen there for the same reason and to do the same thing as Jurati? Plus, Jurati completely changed what the Borg would are and would become. How the hell does something like that not massively change the timeline? All the run ins Enterprise and Voyager had with the Borg would be completely different.

AllForIt

I thought Picard was going to snog Q there for a second before he departed.

I'm very impressed with how advanced shield technology has become because in my day you'd need a few thousand ship shields to fend off an exploding 'galactic event' or whatever it was Rafi called it that would have otherwise destroyed half the galaxy.

When Queen Durati revealed her face I though I saw a painted on cat face just minus the whiskers, but then again i was watching a low resolution version for some reason so that's prolly why.

I would have preferred that Rafi died, Elnor stayed dead, and Rios lived, but then I never get what i want do I.

Incidentally did anyone else notice how sh*t Spiner's acting was or is it just me?

If I was asked if I could think of even only 1 thing I liked about the show I would say it was our very own Irish Romulan. That or the fact I've aged far better than Wesley. Reckon he's been on the meth.

Can't wait for season 3 already.

CastorTroy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119026493#Comment_119026493

That queen is the same one that was there when the ship self destructed in the first episode.

How the rest of the borg stuff happened if she was in charge, I don't know. Unless there are 2 borg factions, but she waited until now to reveal themselves which doesn't make sense.

flazio

There's an excellent phrase in Doctor Who that covers all that.

Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey

ixoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119025420#Comment_119025420

I wish the writers took up Q's point - hoping 'Strange New Worlds' at least does.

I don't think the show is sh*t though and general consensus here appears to be the same. It's dumb but pretty entertaining overall and I make sure to turn any critical thinking off as a result and just go with it. Just would work better as about six episodes overall, with the material they did have.

Stark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119026493#Comment_119026493

I presume they were an offshoot faction that did their own thing like the Borg from Voyager's "Unity".

breezy1985

Very weak. I noticed they keep using old TNG and FC music like a laugh track to tell us when we have to feel sad but I was mostly numb.

The only actual sad bit is Rios and the hard life and death we know he had ahead. Even worse they killed of Treks best character in years and is a crime comparable to making Lorca eeeevvvviiiiilllll.I also like Jurati even though many dont so that sucks too (CGI Borgati looked awful too)

Why is Q dying ?

I said after season 1 that I could happily take 10 episodes of 7 and Picard having a slowchat about the Borg, humanity and the XBs. This season I would happily have watched 10 episodes of Picard and Q debating humanity. We just didnt get nearly enough Q

Finally SHUT UP WESLEY

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119026294#Comment_119026294

and plenty left on the table for a possible season three

Season 3 has already finished filming

Oh **** that. **** it from a height with a **** long **** stick.

I'm done. STW will be more of the same shite just not serialised.

First I hate the Kahn tie in but that one actually makes sense, after Enterprise augments

Legolas back, Rios dead, entire season a bad retread of Tapestry, Borg-lite in the Federation, far more interesting Q death just ignored, confirmed that they just didn't know about (forgot) season cliffhanger Time's Arrow, Wil Wheaton and his nemesis of that wet paper bag he can't act through.

Why couldn't they hit those drones, with a stick or something?

Space Beam!!!

TheValeyard

Said on another thread, but if this was episode five. The season would have worked.

But leaving Rios in the past was a terrible idea. He was actually one of the interesting characters. Leave Raffi behind!!

Not convinced about Qs death, since it's offscreen we never see it, therefore it could just be some test by the continuum.

Borg Lite could be interesting if handled correctly in the future, once we keep some Coca Cola Borg around.

S3 is already filmed but if it goes down the S2 route, I'm not sure I'd watch it tbh.

I felt the 'Khan' thing was a bit on the nose. 'Project Neitzsche / Augment' something else would have sounded better.

Think this is my second or third post about the finale, but definitely have mixed feelings on it.

Although I liked Picard gave Q a hug.

Bobtheman

I liked it but im sentimental by nature. I loved Q saying "Even God's have favorites"

Why Is Q dying?

So was the whole thing set up by Q to help Picard deal with the past??

It's a direct continuation of this season, filmed right afterwards, using same limitless list of producers and writers.

It's basically part B of season 2.

It'll be the same

Acosta

More than any other reason I watched this turd of a show so I could laugh along to the Redlettermedia reviews. They've decided to no longer do star trek reviews because they don't want to be responsible for people watching it.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119031251#Comment_119031251

They should have done that ages back. All the angry neckbeards should have

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119031439#Comment_119031439

RLM are about as far from angry neckbeards as you could get.

Slydice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119030354#Comment_119030354

Ah cool! Good news to me!

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119031439#Comment_119031439

I really disagree. It ain't that bad

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119031491#Comment_119031491

I should have said should have done that too.

TheIrishGrover

It was... Fine. I enjoyed Wesley's cameo (but don't want a spin-off of Wesley's wacky adventures through space and time) and sorry to see Rios go. I enjoyed his character a lot (I thought initially that he would be a one note Han Solo ripoff). Thought he was the most human this season.

But the end? Yeah, could have done without the whole "Right, now you're back let's save the quadrant in five mins"...bit. plus, thought Jurati just looked silly. Because of the makeup and clothing it looked like they had (very) poorly superimposed her face into a dummy body.

The season started well and then faded (as did season one). Orla Brady was great but I'm aware that that may be bias. And Jon DeLancie was also great.

I'm glad we are getting one last season. Make it a TNG farewell and let's never see any of them again apart from Riker rare cameos in Lower Decks (He's hilariously OTT Riker-mode in that)

Edit: Fixed some phone autocorrects and typos

flazio

I too was fine with the Wes cameo. Only point I'd raise though is because Wil Wheaton's Riker esque face is so well known to fandom, couldn't someone have asked him to shave off the beard so as to distinguish him closer to Mr Crusher? If it's anything like mine it'd be grown back within the week.

~Rebel~

After a promising first episode or two, that was pretty immensely disappointing. Almost all stories, big and small, end up a convoluted nonsensical mess of disparate things all just haphazardly smushed together. Just so so poorly written and assembled, who the bejesus is hiring and paying these people!?

Some of the basic concepts could've been interesting enough if massively tightened up and repurposed as a single episode idea, or maaaybe a two-parter, but no more than that. Like a Tapestry meets Future's End sort of thing. But as a season - a whole bloody season! - just horrible.

CramCycle

It shows how wonderfully recalibration works. If you put such a sh1t show together that it lowers your expectations so much that the finale appeared OK. It wasn't but it was way better than the rest of the season. This however does not mean it was good.