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EV cost comparison to ICE traditional cars

  • 28-04-2022 11:33pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭


    Anyone ever used a tool similar to this fuel cost comparison calculator online?

    very interesting. I don’t do massive miles, maybe 8,000 miles per year. (13,000 km) but that could go up to 15-20K miles soon for work in Dublin from Mid Ulster .


    i expected more savings to be quite honest and I’m disappointed.

    the EV in question was a new Hyundai Ioniq 5, the 58KW version (although I probably need the 73/77KW version?)

    vs a 2014 Peugeot 308 active hdi

    the savings wouldn’t be enough to make me change unless you do big miles. Makes you wonder, for people doing very low city / village miles- apart from the environmental impact, they probably aren’t saving you a whole pile at all providing you already have a car that’s cheap to run.

    my electric unit rate in ulster is 22pence per Kw, diesel was put in at £1.70 per litre which is on the high side to cover increase, that’s about €2 per litre

    as has been pointed out on here - a night saver meter is something I should definitely ask to get installed by Power NI / SSE. I see from a quick Google search there are EV night saver off peak rates


    220 mile return trip from here to Dublin would cost £14 of electric in the brand new Hyundai, and £28 in the Peugeot in diesel. That’s a round trip driving to the office one day per week.


    the Hyundai costs £40K roughly brand new, before you look for a charger and get setup at home properly.

    The Peugeot costs me nothing at the moment as I own it, and is worth maybe £4.5K.


    Over a year if I Spend £1500 on diesel , the EV will cost £750 on electric.

    the ROI for the EV would take quite a number of years to justify the saving of no diesel.


    Hardly a lot to get excited about. Just an observation I was shocked about. Not on to slate EVs. Obviously ICE cars need servicing and have more parts.


    id love to be corrected or any flaws in these calculators pointed out to me by people on here a lot more knowledgable than I am on the topic.


    Believe me I’d love to be convinced to switch over. But at the above I wouldn’t be rushing to my local dealer to order one for 2023 and pay big money every month to finance the EV.


    I’ll admit the Peugeot is also quite an economic diesel, hard to get much better mpg.

    Post edited by Fiyatoe on


«1

Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,327 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Not to correct any flaws, but your comparing from another jurisdiction.

    Here in the South of Ireland, night rate kWh pricing is about 12c. Which is considerably lower than the unit rate you’ve used. Also, our diesel is hovering around €1.90 a litre. So this 2 alterations to the maths will make a difference straight away.

    You are also comparing the cost of buying a new car V keeping an older car on the road. Any new car will fail here, and buying a new car to save money is a bad financial decision.

    The trick is, if your buying a new car tomorrow, irrespective, can you consider an EV to suit your needs.

    Using your example above, I randomly choose a 100 mile trip using the typical costs here of 12c per kWh and 1.90 for diesel and the costs are €16 for the diesel and €3.46 for the EV. That’s a decent saving before you consider the lower motor tax, insurance costs and potential lower service costs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,438 ✭✭✭kuang1


    I would also add that for the medium term, the depreciation on a new EV is going to be minimal.

    It's an asset that will hold its value extremely well for the next 3/4 years at least. Possibly a lot longer depending on geopolitical developments.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭kanuseeme



    Would the 58KW version do 220 miles without driving slow? if not you would have to include a charging session cost and time wasted,

    With your maths, it's very hard to see an ROI to justify an EV.

    I see petrol is slightly cheaper, so maybe a hybrid or even a PHEV should be considered when the time comes to purchase.

    This PHEV will do 38 miles on electricity and is 2k less https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108096029251?sort=relevance&year-from=new&advertising-location=at_cars&make=Hyundai&radius=1500&postcode=l211la&include-delivery-option=on&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&fuel-type=Petrol%20Plug-in%20Hybrid&page=1



  • Posts: 864 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Protestant electricity is very expensive



  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Unless you’re going from average mileage to humongous mileage per year, focusing solely on cost of fuel is only part of the picture and yes, your “saving” may be quite small -you need to also look at servicing, rate of depreciation cost of credit impact on tax and insurance etc

    If you’re never going to do massive mileage a second hand ICE with a decent guarantee and good mpg might see you fine - If you went for a new ev over a new ICE, my own view is that rate of depreciation of EV will be lower over the next number of years and servicing will obviously be less - if you believe predictions on petrol/diesel prices at the pumps, then up is the only way - same with electricity costs but maybe not as much



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,203 ✭✭✭✭fits


    It’s almost always cheaper to keep the car you have. But if you’re buying a new car anyway it’s almost always more sensible to purchase an ev.



  • Registered Users Posts: 820 ✭✭✭raxy


    I just put my car into it & the mpg for it is way off. I've a diesel megane & it costs me 10c per km but that calculator is saying diesel would be 18c, nearly twice what I'm getting using the fill up app to track l/100km. I wonder how accurate the electricity calcs are or where they are taking the figures from. Maybe the worst reported mpg rate for my car?



  • Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭Burti16


    I wouldn't completely agree with this. Depreciation is higher in EV because of shorter lifespan of batteries and almost non-viable replacement costs. This situation can be changed once someone discover more durable and easily replaceable battery type though. I couldn't find exactly but in somewhere it was saying EV batteries are losing 10% of storing capacity each year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    Brilliant, makes sense @Gumbo


    i lived in Dublin for a few years up until this year. My apartment had a night saver meter


    hopefully this is something I can look at with NI electricity . I only bought this house 3 months ago, but it doesn’t have a night saver on at the minute


    on the sterling to euro - had to check this morning, local garage is actually doing diesel around £1.61 which matches your €1.90



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    Haha we aren’t all orange as soon as you pass Monaghan/Louth @Phileas Frog


    I actually find a massive difference cost wise vs living in a 2bed Dublin apartment . Electric Ireland costs for 2 people were maybe €1500 a year.

    both of us now living in a standard 2,000 sq ft 4 bed detached house and the electricity from January - end of April has been €180 in total



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  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    Would probably have to buy the 73/77KW version yes @kanuseeme and don’t think I can afford a Tesla!

    that’s what I was asking local dealer about the HI5. I’d be one for “horsing the car on” down the M1/M50. Is this going to eat into the range of the EV more so than driving an ICE hard?


    anyway NI Dealers can’t get them to 2023 now, only tried 2 yesterday, Charles Hurst and another.


    best bet is most likely collect one in England or get it taken home



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    is anyone who’s had an EV long enough able to quote how much they are to replace ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    How much was a 30kwh Nissan Leaf in 2016?

    How much is it worth now 6 years later?

    I think there is significant depreciation in EVs



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    Were they big money when they came out?

    must do a search on the other big names I can think of that I saw when living in Dublin over the last few years, a Prius, the small BMW (i3)?

    im guessing Tesla hold their price



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    Brother spotted one last night on way to Dublin. Think I’ve seen one so far up here



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    I saw someone on here say they bought one new for €15k in 2016, but thats a lie. They were over €30k.

    Still seem cheap compared to what you have to pay for a new EV now though :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,562 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    I was up in Belfast last weekend. I didn't see a single NI reg'd EV. All of the EV's which I saw were ROI reg'd.

    I found that kinda-odd. But then again the charger network explains some of that.

    Yep, range drops if you horse it.

    My Kona gets 14.6kWh/100km at about 110km/hr. That's about 400km from a 64kW battery (100% to 0%).

    At 130km/hr you'll get about 21.2kWh/100km. That's about 300km from a 64kW battery (100% to 0%).

    Never-the-less, the total cost of motoring is much less, especially at a night-rate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    That’s great stats from the Kona, cheers @10-10-20 must look at what money they are


    i don’t have a clue what the charging network is like up here, probably a good idea I do look at it. Apart from my local town and a 20km radius I only ever travel to Dublin for work or Kildare to the in laws. Rarely anywhere else.

    so a home charger and work charger and the network down south would probably suffice for me.


    there are a lot more EVs up here now, but a lot of them English reg. they have the green banding around the yellow plate when they’re EV.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,562 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Play around with this:

    (edit: It normally shows the chargers on the map, but they don't appear to be loading just now)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    IUf you are after a Kona make sure you look at the boot., It looks much bigger than it is when yopu try to stuff things into it. Never driven a car with a boot as bad as the Kona.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,327 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    There was a small time where Nissan dealers were selling off the L30 before the refreshed L40 arrived.

    So a brand new car at €15k was correct. I posted a picture of the Nissan ad a few years ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭innrain


    308 has an EV version. So it is easy to compare prices for both new. I see no point in comparing one new one past half life. I think they are about 3k difference at the cheapest trim although if you want to have the same bhp ICE might catch up.

    https://media.peugeot.ie/file/21/6/peugeot-passenger-cars-retail-price-list.pdf

    If people want to talk depreciation I'd like to see arguments cause I know people who have better arg showing opposite.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,438 ✭✭✭kuang1


    My comment on depreciation probably wasn't descriptive enough.

    Say I buy a Kia ev6 for €50,000 (net, after grant applied etc) this year.

    Based on:

    current (and projected) availability of materials and components,

    the acceleration in demand for EVs that looks set to continue,

    unrest in Ukraine,

    inflation globally looking like its already ramping up,

    Then my ev6 isn't going to be worth less than €45,000 in 3 years time. Only an opinion of course!


    And that's without discussing the durability of the car and battery... Batteries don't start properly deteriorating for the first 7/8 years of normal use as I understand it?


    Also grants for these cars won't continue indefinitely either.

    Post edited by kuang1 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    can't get the chargers on the map either, must look up alternatives I'm sure there are plenty. I just know of the applegreens on m1



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    still €45K in 3 years time! that would be a great outcome. You could be right, the way ICE used cars have held their price and even increased recently.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    The only way values will maintain that long is if inflation continues apace, in which case values will fall in real terms. And I say that as someone who got a new car last year which is now worth more. In real terms inflation is about 8% (and my pay didn't go up by much) so there's hidden depreciation there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,438 ✭✭✭kuang1


    Yep very true.

    Although if you were fortunate enough to be able to buy as a cash buyer now, that would offset that further.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭innrain


    I was referring to post #9. There are people here who actually made profits from selling their used EV and that is before the war. Unlike for ICE, batteries in EVs are a comodity which has value. Say my 64kWh will have 30% loss. It will still hold 45 kWh energy. Even when the car depreciate that nobody wants it anymore still has the capacity to serve as static energy storage, a market which right now develops. Even after that the price of raw materials in the battery would hold some value. Leaf is a bad example as it has a tiny battery by today standards but still holds the value well for what it is.

    I bought a Kona in 2019 for 38k. I would easily sell it today for 30k wich is surprising given that in 2019 it was the only option of a long range car while now there are many.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 820 ✭✭✭raxy


    How do you know you will easily sell it for 30k?

    There are 2 electric konas on carzone. 29k & 31k. You'd be doing well to get 30k if dealers are selling for the same price.

    I looked at Honda civics recently. 4 year old were being sold for 22k but a new car was 30-32k. That's a similar depreciation.



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