Leinster vs. Connacht, leg the second (Aviva, Friday 14th April Stupid 5.30pm, BT Sport One)

dregin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932117#Comment_118932117

That was the URC game, not the first leg.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932307#Comment_118932307

I'd say the chances of Frawley becoming an international class 10 is significantly higher than Ross Byrne

sydthebeat

Ross Byrne would absolutely be fine to go to the rwc, as 3rd choice, and even start against spain and (probably) Tonga.

If for whatever reason he's benching for a RWC QF, he won't be the winning or losing of the game.

Hopefully ben healy can oust joey at munster, but I can't see that happening this side of the wc

arsebiscuits1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932146#Comment_118932146

I'm on the opposite train of thought on Doris.

He gave away 4 penalties on his own.

He brought his usual positive impacts but didn't show enough top 2" that he's renowned for. All the pens were really needless.

Murphy and Kelleher were standouts for me but rare they'd get it after getting subbed

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932365#Comment_118932365

Ross Byrne would absolutely be fine to go to the rwc, as 3rd choice, and even start against spain and (probably) Tonga.

Of course he would. But that just leaves him in the same category as Carbery, Carty and Burns, which is exactly where R.Byrne is. Which we already knew.

arsebiscuits1

Thought Bundee was awful bordering on embarrassing today.

Aside from a strong tackle on JOB he was just focused on being a flat track bully.

Henshaw breezed past him for his try.

His high shot on Sexton was just so pointless. The pass was always going to get away. He wanted to play Billy big bollox and send a message and got marched for it.

He then still got involved in handbags with Johnny in the second half.

And finally he misses the clear out on Frawley who got a lovely poach and pushes him away after the whistle had gone on his way to mouth at the ref.

Bundee is a phenomenal player but Connacht deserved more from him today

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932287#Comment_118932287

I'm long on Frawley and I'd love to see Healy play some European games and put his hand up. So we don't disagree on that but I wonder if Johnny will even be available for 3 tests in NZ, nevermind a full WC, run so someone is going to be the main back up in 3 months. RB is the first in line right now I'd say. But frankly I'd be happy if JS travelled with Frawley and Healey as backups, not sure Farrell will agree but what does he know.

arsebiscuits1

James Lowe gave his MOTM trophy to a young Connacht fan.

He really is a class act

mr_edge_to_you

Just home from the game.

How is it that at this level of professional sport the organisers can let 2 teams play a game with clashing jerseys? It was tough to follow it.

AbusesToilets

Of all the OHs jockeying as backups playing, Ross Bryne and Carty are the only ones who have shown anything this season. I think Bryne would do fine behind the Irish pack. He has enough in his game to maintain the attacking style we're playing now.

OldRio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932691#Comment_118932691

I really would like to know the answer to this.

Deusexmachina

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932203#Comment_118932203

Just because you keep saying it, doesn’t mean it’s true. Ross Byrne has an outstanding track record in European games. He is consistently better than the other options at 10.

the bigger European Games must be equal to or close to International standard. Afterall the Ireland Team is primarily made up of Leinster players anyway,

.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932329#Comment_118932329

Frawley looks unlikely to ever start a game for Leinster at 10 ever again. There is absolutely no way there is a "significantly higher" chance of him becoming an international class 10 than Byrne - not least because only Byrne has any chance of actually starting for Ireland at 10.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118933065#Comment_118933065

And the La Rochelle game last season shows that he struggles in the bigger European games too. He gets spooked by line speed and resorts to standing 10 yards behind the gain line. He's also just not a good enough athlete to be an international 10 in the modern game. He's slow and extremely wooden in his movements.

He's the flavour of the month right now, just like Carty was the flavour of the month before the 6N, but he's just not good enough. You're right, me saying it doesn't make it true...his performances in the chances he's been given for Ireland make it true.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118933187#Comment_118933187

No he's not good enough. But none of out options are and we have to play the hand we have.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118933102#Comment_118933102

Ntamack wasn't playing 10 for Toulouse and didn't even play 10 for France u20s before he got capped at 10 for France.

We need to start thinking outside the box for a solution. Ireland gain absolutely nothing by taking R.Byrne to NZ.

Madeoface

My 9 year old daughter asked why Leo (the lion) was working so hard, that he seemed happier in the 'other place, where people cheer him'. Summed it up. At least Leo had a blue Jersey of old on though, so I knew he wasn't part of the muddle of similar colours on the pitch. Wtf?

Rugby in the Aviva is a total meh experience.... the St.Pats v Bohs game was very different for example. It must be the attendees...

To which I have to say, to the 2 ladies behind me in block 104 who arrived late and wouldn't shut up throughout, I'm glad u got Dom P champagne at the Bath match and fair play for booking ur Leicester trip during the game today but ye were insufferable and were real-time clichés of why the Aviva is such a pain in the hole. I was embarrassed as a leinster supporter to have to listen to ye but more so for the poor Galwegians beside us who were suffering enough after a long drive. To them all I can say is, we're not all insufferable, unaware, painful cnuts, I swear...

durthacht

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118933187#Comment_118933187

I think that's very unfair as he played for Ireland at a time when the side was much weaker than now at the end of Schmidt's reign and was regularly dominated physically, including in a world cup warm up game against England in Twickenham that Best acknowledged they didn't even properly prepare for. The rest of his appearances have been brief sub appearances, so I don't think he has had a proper chance for Ireland.

You are right that he has tended to stand far too deep and not challenge the line, but I think that has changed quite a lot this year as he seems much more aggressive and to play closer to the gain line. I think he has improved recently.

But I think it's largely irrelevant as Farrell seems to not fancy him, which I think is unfair as I think he has been the second best fly half in Ireland for some time and I think his recent improvement deserves recognition.

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118933237#Comment_118933237

He's solid. Not spectacular but nails his kicks & will be familiar with probably 11 or 12 of the team around him and importantly he is durable. Id have him as 3rd choice over carty burns h byrne etc... the problem really is 2nd who is second choice, maybe carberry nails that down tomorrow.. I wouldn't hold my breath..

Carts form has really fallen off a cliff.. since January

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932329#Comment_118932329

You may not have noticed, but Frawley isn’t playing at 10 at the moment. Hard to make it as an international 10 when you don’t play in the position at all.

eagle eye

I'm a Connacht fan but I have to admit I'm shocked we didn't have two red cards today.

On the out-half discussion, I'd love to see David Hawkshaw get a run playing there for Connacht next year. Anytime I've seen him play there he looks impressive. I'm very surprised Leinster let him go.

Former Former Former

So a good day's work for Leinster.

You felt that Connacht needed everything to go right for them and Leinster to play badly, but neither came to pass.

For Connacht, their big players just didn't perform. Aki looked well off the pace and everyone else was just anonymous. Hansen had some nice moments but wasn't involved enough.

The match stats are utterly bizarre. Connacht had 59% possession?! Connacht made only 101 tackles and missed 31. That's absolutely shocking. You'll never be competitive missing one in four tackles.

As for Leinster, it's hard to find fault with the performance really. Hugely encouraging ahead of the QF. VDF was just immense as per usual, Henshaw too, but hard to argue with Lowe as MOTM.

As for the cards, Keenan could have seen yellow, Aki could have seen red but fair enough on both. Aungier absolutely should have got a red though, that's as dirty and deliberate a hit as you'll ever see. Scum.

Finally, a very good turnout.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932179#Comment_118932179

The video Akrasia shared explains it well.

I think the key point is that the forwardness or otherwise of a pass is judged relative to the passer, and not relative to the ground. Were it otherwise a player wouldn't be able to pass it to a supporting player who was behind him if they were both running fast enough to make the pass forward relative to the ground.

It all comes from the fact that the ball is already travelling forward relative to the ground at the speed the passer is running at before/as the pass is made. This forward speed will be continued during the time the pass is in the air until drag slows the ball down. For the pass not to end up forward of where it was thrown relative to the ground the passer would have to throw it backwards at an equal speed to his running speed.

You can tell who doesn't understand the law by people talking about how many metres forward the pass went. It would only be relevant to apply that metric if the passer was static.

I like to try to judge it by looking is the receiver behind the passer. Of course they have to be moving at about the same speed.

Buer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118933237#Comment_118933237

Ntamack played nearly all of his underage rugby at 10 for France aside from a few games at 12. He played a large chunk of his games at centre but plenty at outhalf for Toulouse before he was capped. He was always seen as the future French outhalf from a young age and was developed as such.

Frawley isn't playing centre because we have other options at 10. He was given significant opportunities at 10 previously (initially afforded due to injuries) and simply didn't deliver after initial promise. His passing was erratic. He threw intercepts and missed his man multiple times with passes going to ground.

He is a far better centre (which is actually where he did play all of his Irish U20 rugby).

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118933504#Comment_118933504

Discipline. That's one really big issue. Too many soft penalties coughed up over the two legs when Connacht were going nowhere

Deusexmachina

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118933187#Comment_118933187

‘Slow and extremely wooden’

If that were true, Leo and Lancaster would not consistently play him - but they do.

’Solid if not spectacular’ is probably fairer. He is a good tackler and gets stuck in, reads the game well, a great kicker, and it looks like the Leinster team are confident in his abilities when he plays.

Carbery does not inspire the same confidence. He may have a better skill set as a footballer but is obviously more suited to FB.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118933913#Comment_118933913

Yeah that's fair. I thought one or two yesterday were harsh (eg Connacht's first three pointer), but in the build up to Arnold's try we were entering YC territory if he hadn't scored.

Utopia Parkway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118933504#Comment_118933504

Calling Aungier "scum" is maybe a tad ott.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932203#Comment_118932203

To a certain extent I agree, I think he just lacks the physical attributes for top level. He is miles ahead of every other 10 in all other aspects of his game though.

You keep championing Carty yet yesterday proves he is nowhere the level required. His defense was awful. Kicking from the tee totally erratic. You could forgive him not creating anything behind a well beaten pack. Even though you don’t extend that curtesy to RB. But Carty is NOT a test quality outhalf either, that’s for damn sure.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118934530#Comment_118934530

Perhaps, but if it was some random French prop had deliberately shouldered an opponent in the head when neither of them were anywhere near the ball, I doubt anyone would object to posters being hard on him.