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Housing Ukrainian refugees?

  • 11-04-2022 9:41am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭


    I am not "anti refugees" or "racist" in any way, but why should Ireland house these levels of refugees, if there is a housing crisis in the country, where there is barely room to house the existing residents? And housing them in tents or warehouses isn't really a good solution either? I would only guess that many of them are staying with friends/family who already live in Ireland and paid for their flights to get to Ireland?

    Why isn't there a limit to how many refugees Ireland can take in? Also why isn't there an EU-wide approach to where they are housed, proportionate to the population size of each country?



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,601 ✭✭✭timmyntc




  • Registered Users Posts: 32,563 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Never sounds good when you say, I'm not racist but....

    Simple fact is, we have to play our part in this crisis. Do you think we should simply say we have 10000 of our own waiting on homes, sorry we aren't taking any? Not very humane considering what these people are going through.

    Poland has taken in over a million ffs. We have to take our share. What would happen if every country had your attitude?



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Ireland has taken in less then 20,000 refugees I believe. not so many. The majority have been homed with Ukranian family or friends.

    What's wrong with temporary accommodation? Would you prefer they were housed in houses?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,202 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Also why isn't there an EU-wide approach to where they are housed, proportionate to the population size of each country?

    probably because the EU wanted to do that, to take the burden off of Italy and Greece, with the Syrians in 2015 and the likes of Poland, Hungary, the Czechs and Slovakia straight up refused to take any.

    In fairness to them they are taking more than their share now though.

    I haven't seen any evidence that Ireland is taking a disproportionate share of Ukrainians compared to other EU countries.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,475 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    "In fairness to them they are taking more than their share now though."

    Because these latest refugees are white and not Muslim, by and large.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,959 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    We should help but the activist class are fooling themselves in thinking it's not going to have serious implications economically and especially on the bottom half of society.


    Forget social housing, there will be significant cuts in the provision of public services, especially in health and education. There will be significant downward pressure on wages, especially in the bottom half of income earners.


    There will be very significant upward pressure on rent and housing supply.


    The list goes on and on.


    It will be a much more free market cut throat society.


    We should still help.


    A basic question that should be asked is whether we can justify spending nearly a billion on foreign aid with such a pressing need now here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,475 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Absolutely.

    Decision makers here suffer from that 'best little country in the world' delusion. We can't save everyone, there's finite space in the lifeboat.

    Housing was simmering as an issue for years and the best they could do was nip and tuck around the edges without actually doing anything to fix it. Now the pressure's on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Many countries have housing designated for refugees. Also, any kind of EU-wide coordination would have helped. Just wondering, how is Poland coping? After all they have taken the biggest amount of refugees, - but also they don't have an Ireland-Style housing crisis.

    It's just not right taking in refugees, and giving them hope of shelter and then just offer them a tent or a warehouse.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Refugees worldwide for decades.have been housed in temporary accommodation. Would you suggest we house them in houses?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,407 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    and how well has that turned out? Everywhere its been a disaster. There needs to be EU wide plans put into place, housing built to accommodate for all including refugees etc. Right now this country is practically in the gutter....another 10-20 years and we'll have shantytowns ie temp housing being built to house people down the road.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,715 ✭✭✭fly_agaric



    Yes agree, unfortunately if you insist with living with dysfunctional systems for several decades and doing little to fix the problems (the "housing market" and planning system, our whole local government too really such as it is) you will be caught with your trousers down when a crisis hits. We're likely just going to have to cope as best we can here. It was the same with the health service during worst of Covid, and identical issues reared their head during the HSE hack. There's no resilience there because day to day the systems don't work well.

    What the f-ck has the EU to do with our problem with housing the extra people, which is what this is at base? That is (I think) 2 entire levels of democracy below the EU, given we likely have resources to deal with this (money), but it is our own organisation that is failing and is probably incapable of responding as well as we would like.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,651 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    There is an EU wide approach. Ireland will take about 2% of all Ukrainian refugees in the end because it is relative to our total of the EU population.

    The alternative to a "tent and warehouse" is stay in Ukraine and die. No country in the world ever has been prepared for this kind of mass exodos.

    Anyway as of right now we are not housing refugees in tents.

    Your just making excuses for not wanting to help



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    your quote "Your just making excuses for not wanting to help" is not what is correct.

    What I am saying is that there is probably more suitable accommodation in other EU countries, especially if there is such a housing crisis in the country.

    It's not looking for excused, but saying that the kind of help for housing Ukrainian refugees could be different.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,651 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985



    Tell me which country had a massive stock of refugee houses ready to go. All great saying "probably" but give us a name cause Im pretty certain there isnt a country in the EU not in a panic about either houses or money.

    If we did have houses set aside all these years laying empty waiting for a refugee crisis you would be the very one crying that they are not open to the Irish.

    You appear to be incredibly misinformed about the EU response and situation in other countries. Either that or a willful liar.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,651 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Some people in this country are so soft. How can you look around the world and think Ireland is a country "in the gutter"



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,202 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    One of the unusual things right now is that there seems to be housing crises in many OECD countries all over the world. I know that there are in Australia, New Zealand and many American states. I don't know the exact details of the housing market in every EU country but I'd be surprised if too many of them have an abundance of empty homes.


    If there are then I would imagine that the Ukrainians themselves might figure this out - as in right now there are millions of them in Poland - many of them sleeping in gyms on camp beds. If word gets out that, say, Finland, Portugal or Austria has houses available then they will likely head there. I believe they are free to live and work in any EU country for the next few years so will likely choose places that will be most hospitable to them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Quadrivium


    This mentality is incredibly naïve. People like you appear to be unaware of the realities of life such as the fact every Nation and economy on the planet has limited resources, as such we must make difficult decisions from time to time. Ireland can not house the needy of the entire world, we can not even house our own people. There is a chronic shortage of housing that will never be rectified if we continue to import more and more people into the country, we need a total pause on all asylum applications and all immigration except for critical skills workers at least until we get on top of the housing shortage, any other approach is going to destroy everyone's standard of living or hopes of ever owning a home.

    As a related aside, how many Ukrainians have you taken into your home?



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Quadrivium


    So you don't think there are white Muslims? That is an absurd statement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Quadrivium


    Your first mistake was pre-qualifying your common sense statement with 'I'm not racist' race, ethnicity etc. have absolutely nothing to do with this issue, it is a simple matter of numbers and sustainability.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,563 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I've taken none, as I simply don't have any room.

    All bedrooms accounted for here I'm afraid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,959 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    They are also next door to the EU and not having to pass through multiple Safe countries.


    They are also largely women and children and are actually from the country they claim to be from.



  • Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭the-island-man


    I think there's no doubt this will put pressure on our country but if our country was ripped apart by an aggressor how would you like to be treated by others?

    Also it will impact people looking for their own housing but I wonder if there is a difference in expectations? I would imagine initially at least most Ukranians won't care whether they end up Lucan or Leitrim once they've a roof over them and food. I doubt the same can be said for young people in somewhere like south Dublin with an expectation that they'll somehow end up living 5 minutes down the road from Mam & Dad on a half acre site valued between 600-800k while working for minimum wage....

    One thing I would like to see is a longer term plan with regard to the pledges. Current information seems to be make a pledge for a minimum of 12 months. Will the red cross have something sorted for them after 12 months?!



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,109 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Solve the Ukrainian war and you solve the Ukrainian refugee problem. If there is a just peace, they will go home.

    If Russia destroys Ukraine, they will have no home to go to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭Quadrivium


    200,000 Ukrainians equates to 65,000 extra houses needed for them.

    Michael Martin recently came out and said there will be no cap on numbers so potentially double this number...that's without considering other immigration and the native populations demand for property, this policy is verging on criminal negligence and mismanagement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    I bet they wish they kept the ghost estates now instead of bulldozing them



  • Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭sonar44


    The population of Europe is c750 million.

    2% of that is 15 million, not 5.

    It's just a discussion. Something more important is bound to come along.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,651 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Who said anything about Europe. I may have been wrong though about 2% as it might be 1%



  • Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭sonar44


    ?


    You did. You said:

    Ireland will take about 2% of all Ukrainian refugees in the end because it is relative to our total of the EU population.

    Thing is, you are not wrong and government is agreeing with you but the figures don't add up.

    It's just a discussion. Something more important is bound to come along.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,651 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985




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