Diesel particle filtration issue

misc2013

Recently bought a 16 Toyota corolla 1.5 diesel. At time of buying, salesman asked me how much driving I did as this car would not be suitable for short trips mainly. I told him I have a 40km return spin to work 5 days a week and he assured me that would be OK, as the car needs one decent spin at speed a week. But guess what, less than 2 wks in and I got the engine warning light. Took it to garage and it was checked on the computer and it was apparently an issue with this filtration system. Sales man THEN told me to "drive the car hard" once or twice a week and demonstrated revving the gears on a spin around the block. Now, this is not my style of driving but I did this anyway and here I am less than 2 wks in with the same issue and I'll have to go back to the garage tomorrow at great inconvenience.

Questions :

Is this really a thing cos according to the Google, diesel cars all have this now and you should really be driving at least 20K/ year and be doing a good 30-50km at speed during the week. Neither will apply to me..

Should I look to change to petrol? He already told me I'll have the same issues with any modern diesel car.

Why have the few people who've changed their diesel cars lately not been warned the same? One I know has just bought a relatively new diesel and works from home most of the time but wasn't asked details about her driving! My husband changed his diesel car recently and he wasn't asked that either!

Does this car have some issue that's been passed off as something else?

I've had Toyota diesel before, albeit a 2012, no such issues but salesman told me the newer the car, the more sensitive they are to this emissions issue. Really miffed.

Thanks.

misc2013

Edit : need to be driving 30-50mins at speed, not 30-50km.

alan partridge aha

Ya I had similar issue when I bought 12 Octavia. Had 2 weeks and went into limp mode. In warranty the car had to have egr valve replaced.

I do 20km round trip and an occasional long one. VW had a fix for emissions problem but it causes car to regen to often. Love the car though and no problems since.

All modern diesels will give trouble if not given a decent run occasionally.

Water2626262

I’d the same car. Barely did 50km in 3 years, mainly short hops with maybe a weekly long run and never an issue.

colm_mcm

Car most likely had a pre-existing issue before sale. Driving like a lunatic around the block is not a way to clear a DPF in any case.

Bring it into local Toyota dealer and try and get any history they have on the car as well as any historic fault codes related to the DPF.

zg3409

What is mileage on car? Did you get warranty with the sale? Can you return car?

Pawwed Rig

We had it on our Insignia aswell and were informed by the Opel dealers that the car was a write off. Still going 12 month later though. The issue stopped when I started driving to work one day a week which is only about 20k each way but takes 40-60 mins

misc2013

67k

Yes to warranty.

Thinking about bringing it back.

Downside is how hard it was to find

misc2013

I don't understand the "write off".

My daily commute is 20km each way but passing thru a village so not a 20min drive at 5th.

User1998

What type of roads do you drive on and at what speed? Two 20km journeys a day at 100 km/h should be enough to keep a DPF from being blocked. The salesman is incorrect in telling you to drive the car hard. This will do nothing. The DPF was probably already close to being blocked when you bought the car.

To be honest its kind of up to you to research what car suits you best. Not really up to the salesman to decide. If you change to a petrol now you may end up loosing a couple of grand in trading the car back in and buying another one.

colm_mcm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118909415#Comment_118909415

The crux of it is proving that the car is faulty. Even if it is, the garage isn’t obliged to refund you. They could attempt a repair.

cpoh1

DPFs fill up with ash and soot as a by product of driving the car.

Soot gets cleared during the normal day to day driving provided you are doing a decent longer journey or two periodically relative to how often you drive. It may be that you simply need to force a regeneration to fix the issue.

Ash fills up over time after repeated regenerations and the only way to clear is to clean the dpf physically by taking it out or putting in a new one. Repeat engine lights are usually this. Have had mine removed, cleaned and reinstalled for under 400 previously and going great 2 years later.

rightmove

same issue. The wife wanted (should put that in bold) the newer car (at the time) and only used it for a few kms in cuc traffic everyday and after a year the car started cutting out. I told her it was bad idea and didnt suit a diesel but the petrol was looking worn I guess. This was 2017 . I was given it back when issue started- ofcourse!. Was told to drive it hard etc by the dealer.

To fix it I never use it for short journeys when I can avoid them. Use the petrol for this

use petrol additive (diopethane or something)

It gets few long journeys every few month (4hours)

It purring along still. now if I was to use it alot for really short journeys (3k or less ) for a week or 2 it would come back.

misc2013

Update. DPF part is faulty so garage will replace it with a 2yr gaurentee on the part. And if I still have hassle, will let me change it to a petrol car. In fairness I was asked about what driving I did before buying the car and the salesman was telling me it would be fine so if its the wrong car for the driving I do despite being sold that it was, they would have some duty to do me a deal on changing it.

cpoh1

Are they covering the cost of the DPF replacement?

misc2013

Yes. I only bought the car a couple weeks ago. It has 12 month's warranty.

MakersMark

Sell it on and buy a petrol.

Galwayguy35

Something similar happened to me, only had the car 2 weeks when the DPF fault came up, went back to the dealer and after a bit of humming and hawing out of him it was replaced and no bother with it since.

I do about 60 miles a day 6 days a week so it gets plenty of work to stop the soot building up.

rightmove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918271#Comment_118918271

it expensive otherwise but your car should be humming after the replacement

alan partridge aha

Petrol corolla low mid 40s

diesel high 50s

jmreire

Unless you are doing serious high yearly mileage, minimum 15'000 Klms, then petrol is the best bet. Unless like me, ( annual mileage 8-10'000 Klms per year) your daily drive is up and down hill and predominantly in the lower gears, so you have the engine in the high revving range, but at low speed. It only ever see's 7th ( top) gear when on the motorway, which is not very often, none the less I have ( fingers crossed) never had any DPF trouble. The car is an MB 220 diesel.

cpoh1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919227#Comment_118919227

A lot of people peddle the big miles theory for diesel and its not true.

The type of journeys is the key thing not the overall mileage. My diesel passat has done 30k in the last 4 years but is running perfectly. It does two 80km round trips a week and only infrequent short journeys.

rightmove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919940#Comment_118919940

yep - would concur here. It was when the journey times reduced to minutes from hours that my car started having the issue

Pawwed Rig

Seems a bit daft that the issue isn't easier to fix given how often I have heard of it happening. We had a mechanic in the main dealers tell us the only thing for it was to drive hard to Drogheda and back. Needless to say that didn't work.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919940#Comment_118919940

Bottom line cpoh1 is short stop start trips are the death of any engine with a DPF fitted. I mentioned in my post that my annual mileage rarely passes 8'000 klms, but its all up and down hill, on back country roads, with the rare motorway trip. It rarely reaches 7th gear, so high engine revs and low gearing, and that ensures that the engine is getting a good workout. But if I were doing this kind of mileage on ordinary roads, I would be expecting DPF trouble. 8000 Klms /52 weeks equals 153 Klms / week or 22 klms per day average. For a petrol engine? No bother. For a DPF engine, yes, its a problem. And that's the difference. I should add that I change the engine oil and filter every 8'000 Klms ( 1 year of driving) and I use long life 20'000 Klms oil. And this is very important too where DPF's are concerned. Each regen attempt causes extra fuel to be injected into the cylinders, the more attempts, the more fuel injected, and some of this injected fuel finds its way down past the pistons and into the sump, mixing and diluting the engine oil. If the engine oil is checked regularly, and the level seems to be rising, thats an indication that all is not well with the DPF. A blocked or semi blocked DPF will make frequent attempts to clear itself, injection more fuel each time.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920625#Comment_118920625

The main problem with DPF's is that for a regen to take place, a certain nr of conditions need to be met....and if these conditions are met, then the regen cycle starts no problem. But if there is any interruption, then the regen process stops. It restarts again when the conditions are again right, and so it goes until it successfully completes the regen. And this is one of the reasons why short trips are normally death to DPS. Now as I mentioned before, most of my tips are relatively short... 20 Klms are thereabouts, but these Klms are hard driving ( but not speeding ) travelling up hill at 40 KPH, in 4th gear and with the rev counter hitting 2'000 RPM. So despite the low yearly mileage, I've never had a blocked DPF. Now if my driving conditions changed, same mileage, but in and around town on level ground, then I'd expect DPF trouble. And again, if my mileage increased from 8'000 Klms to say 30-40'000 klms, then the chances of DPF failure would also reduce, As for getting easier to fix, they are a complicated system with electronic sensors etc, and these can go wrong very quickly. So until they come up with a better system for removing green house gases, we are stuck with them, ( unfortunately)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919227#Comment_118919227

15,000kms is in no way "seriously high yearly mileage"!!

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118922420#Comment_118922420

Read it again Phileas, I said minimum 15'000 Klms yearly.....after that, the sky's the limit.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923123#Comment_118923123

"Unless you are doing serious high yearly mileage, minimum 15'000 Klms"

I stand by my statement that you're saying that 15,000kms is seriously high yearly mileage. Seriously high yearly mileage starts at 15,000kms according to you.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923157#Comment_118923157

I'll put it in context for you Phileas, if I was driving less than 15'000 Klms per year, I'd be going with a petrol car. I consider 15'000 KLms per year the minimum mileage to consider when choosing between petrol or diesel. Other folks may have their own ideas about this, but that's what I'd be basing my choice on.

colm_mcm

My DPF will regenerate driving around at low speeds, this idea that you need to redline the car for half an hour is not exactly true.

colml cule

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923358#Comment_118923358

How do you know when a regeneration is happening? Is there some indication on the dash or can you just tell from the noise etc?

maestroamado

Your problem has nothing to do with speed its to do with the rpm of the engine... drive it in a lower gear at over 2000 rpm once or twice a week and you be ok... clear out the carbon build up....

Paul MCM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923848#Comment_118923848

when stopped my RPM sits at 1000 when a regeneration is taking place.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923358#Comment_118923358

Yes, that was the thinking in the past, but with newer DPF's the thinking seems to have changed. They have to have improved the DPF design over the years, and once the conditions for regen are met, that's it.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923848#Comment_118923848

When you think about the multitude of warning lights and icons on the dash of any modern car, its very strange that they did not include one that tells you when a regen is taking place. If there was such a warning light / icon in place, then you could continue driving while the regen is active, and stop when the light / icon switch's off, avoiding half completed regens which can clog up the system. With Mercedes Benz, its possible to rig a warning light because while a regen is taking place, the heated rear window and door mirrors are alive, electrically, and its possible to take a feed from them and attach it to a warning light in the interior. Maybe its possible to do this with other makes too. I'd be surprised if MB are the only ones.

colm_mcm

Toyota have a dash notification on the Hilux I think.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923848#Comment_118923848

I know my car is doing it if the idle speed is at 1000, and the oil temp goes up.

If it’s regenning when I stop I’ll take it for a spin, dip the clutch every now and again to check idle rpm. I’ll never turn it off if doing a regen (have actually done it maybe 5 times since 2019) Car has 230k now and DPF is healthy, had it checked on computer last year when doing other work.

CiniO

Are the GPF filters on petrol cars as much of a problem as DPFs on diesel, and also require occasional longer drive to clear ?

creedp

I have a diesel smax as need 7 seats but recently I do very little mileage - only about 10k kms over last 12 months. However most journeys are long with many in excess of an hour with quite a few just over 3 hours. I'm assuming that low mileage in itself is not a problem so long as its made up of mostly longer journeys

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118926593#Comment_118926593

It all depends on the system meeting the conditions needed for a regen to take place ( and this can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer )So long or short mileages, wont matter as long as the regen conditions are met. Statistically, longer drives are more likely to meet regen criteria. If the DPF is not giving you any problems, it's regenning OK. When it stops, you will find out soon enough.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924075#Comment_118924075

Does the dash have an oil temp gauge on your car? Or how can you tell? With some cars, during a regen, say you stop to speak to some one and they are standing beside the car, and the engine is still running, its possible for them to feel the heat generated by the DPF. There is a scene in the Soprano's where Tony's son has his girlfriend in the car, and he parks in a forest area, with a carpet of leaves on the ground. A regen takes place, and it sets fire to the leaves ( and car).

creedp

Must admit that I've never noticed the DPF regenerating. Probably does it during longer journeys without any drama. Must take more notice in future

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929326#Comment_118929326

Go on any Ford forum, and see what they have to say about regens, and if it's possible to monitor regens taking place, and how its done, or what to look for. Some cars show a higher than normal engine idle speed, and raised temp. It varies from vehicle to vehicle.

colm_mcm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929247#Comment_118929247

You can certainly tell when it’s regenning it you’re stopped cos you’ll get the hot metal smell.

I enabled oil temp on the centre maxidot display, so can scroll to it if I suspect it’s doing one.

rodders999

Have the same light currently flashing on the dash of my Mazda 6.

Same story as others have mentioned here with the mechanic telling me to take it for a long trip driving at high revs. It’s even mentioned in the manual to drive a 2500+ revs for a period of 20 minutes to fix the issue

Thing is I only use the car for commuting to/from work so between rush hour traffic, red lights, roundabouts and dual carriageway driving it’s rare that I’m driving at 2500+ revs. 

So question is do I need to continuously drive at 2500 revs for 20 mins and not dip below (like the Speed movies!) for the regen to kick in or would 4 or 5 days of worth of driving that way for 10 odd minutes a day do the trick?

If it has to be continuous driving at that rate then I’ll have to take the car out late at night because there isn’t a hope of getting 20+ mins on the work commute before something/someone forces me to slow and dip under 2000 revs. 

Just for a heads up this is the 3rd time I’ve had the light flashing, previous 2 times I brought it to the mechanic who cleaned the DPF for €80 which buys me around a year and a half before it will come on again, hoping to sort myself this time round for the cost of a few extra quid burning diesel at high revs!

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929598#Comment_118929598

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929598#Comment_118929598

Yes that's one way if you are stopped and the engine running. Happens like that in our Superb. But what make of car are you driving that there's menu you can access? With iCarsoft CR Pro, I can access oil temp etc. in the automatic transmission ( 2014 MB w212 722.9 trans.) not sure if it will give me engine oil temp.... probably does, I must check, but its not something I'd like to leave plugged in while driving. Thanks for your help.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929367#Comment_118929367

As many have said already its ridiculous that, for something that's essential to the health of a modern diesel engine, no warning light exists to inform drivers that a regen is ongoing and not to switch off engine until complete

colm_mcm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118930152#Comment_118930152

Octavia 2.0 TDI Mk3. Enabled it with OBDEleven, you just scroll the right hand steering wheel roller to cycle through speed/range/average fuel/oil temp/lap timer 🤣 etc etc.

zg3409

With odb readers and phone apps you can tell exactly when a regeneration is happening. Other quick ways are if you stop car and notice fans are still running it's likely regeneration was taking place, and it's now trying to cool down engine quickly to prevent fires as mentioned if ground is grassy it's a fire risk.

In terms of types of trips, as mentioned certain conditions need to be met for a regeneration to happen.

E.gn it won't start if not needed, if it has run recently.

It won't start if fuel is low, in case car runs out of fuel as it uses more fuel

It won't start if the system is faulty, if sensors give errors etc.

It may not try start until engine is warmed up which take take over 15 minutes. Many cars with a dog have a larger sump, meaning more oil than normal car, meaning oil takes longer to get to temperature.

Once regeneration starts, you don't typically need to drive "hard" or fast. The engine changes the air fuel to ensure higher exhaust temperatures.

The process stops if you turn off engine, bit will attempt again next trip. It also stops when the job is done or a preset time has passed and it gives up.

Eventually at 160,000km+ the dpf gets full with grey ash which can't be removed during normal regeneration process. Typically the best fix at this point is to replace dpf at a cost of 1000 euro.

Regular oil changes are important particularly on high mileage cars as the more ash In the dpf the more often it will regenerate as there is less room for soot. The oil degrades quickly, and may lead to engine failure. A blocked dpf can lead to early turbo failure due to back pressure.

If you are not doing 30 minute trips at least once a week I would avoid diesels.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929642#Comment_118929642

There has been several posts on here concerning Mazda 6 diesel engines giving DPF problems.....do a search, and you will find them.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931095#Comment_118931095

😕😕😕🤣😎