Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896165#Comment_118896165

Couple of points. As far as HAP is concerned they meet the exact same criteria as Irish people on social welfare.

2nd point is that if they don't meet HAP requirements then they will will definitely meet rent allowance /supplement requirements. Rent supplement is there for the very reason of helping someone that doesn't meet HAP requirements

If it is deemed that they need long term help /housing then they will meet HAP requirements. If it is deemed that they don't need long term help/housing then they meet the requirements of rent supplement.

This isn't rocket science. The government is taking them into its care. Obviously they won't be able afford rent while on social welfare. The government knows this. Department of social welfare know this.

I just don't understand the argument that posters believe that they will be forced into homelessness because the government won't provide HAP and supplement. Its nonsensical. They are entitled to all welfare programs.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/asylum_seekers_and_refugees/the_asylum_process_in_ireland/coming_to_ireland_from_ukraine.html

Social welfare

When you arrive in Ireland you can apply to the Department of Social Protection for financial support. You will get a temporary social welfare payment called Supplementary Welfare Allowance. It is a weekly payment for you and any dependents (for example, children) you may have. If you need help applying for this payment, you can visit your nearest Ukraine Support Centre.

You will continue to get Supplementary Welfare Allowance until you apply for a more suitable social welfare payment. You can find out more about the range of social welfare payments available. You can apply for Rent Supplement if you find private rented accommodation.

If you have children, you can get Child Benefit. This is a monthly payment paid to the parents or guardians of children aged under 16. It is also paid for children aged 16 and 17 in full-time education. You do not have to have proof that your 16 and 17 year old children are in full-time education for the first 2 months after you arrive in Ireland.

Ukrainians who have come to Ireland because of the war satisfy the habitual residence condition for social welfare payments.

https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/d5554-supplementary-welfare-allowance/

Collection Supplementary Welfare Allowance (SWA) Scheme

From Department of Social Protection 

Published on 17 September 2021

Last updated on 28 March 2022

 

Basic Supplementary Welfare Allowance

Rent Supplement

Exceptional Needs Payments

Urgent Needs Payments

SWA supplements

List of offices providing SWA services

The Supplementary Welfare Allowance scheme offers a safety net within the overall social welfare system by providing assents.

The main purpose of the scheme is to provide immediate and flexible assistance to those in need.

There are several payments within the scheme and more information is provided below.

Supplementary Welfare Allowance is administered by the Community Welfare Service of the department.

Basic Supplementary Welfare Allowance

Basic Supplementary Welfare Allowance is a weekly payment to people who do not have enough means to meet their needs and those of their qualified adult or any qualified children. It may be paid to people who are awaiting the outcome of a claim or an appeal for a primary social welfare payment or to those who do not qualify for payment under other State schemes.

Rent Supplement

Rent Supplement is a means-tested payment for certain people living in private rented accommodation who cannot provide for the cost of their accommodation from their own resources.

Exceptional Needs Payments

An Exceptional Needs Payments is a single payment to help meet essential, once-off, exceptional expenditure, which a person could not reasonably be expected to meet out of their weekly income.

Urgent Needs Payments

An Urgent Needs Payments is a once-off payment made to persons, including those who may not normally qualify for Supplementary Welfare Allowance, but who have an urgent need which they cannot meet from their own resources or an alternative is not available at that time.

istance to people in the State whose means are insufficient to meet their needs and those of their depend

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118895699#Comment_118895699

I know what exactly what direct provision is. It was intended as a temporary measure over 20 years ago. People living in so called "emergency accomodation" - a form of direction provision often live there years. There was no plan for direct provision or "emergency accomodation" to be used as long term housing. Yetwe are about 25 years later.

It is absolutely naive to think that some Ukrainian people wont end up for some reason living in the same situation for a few years.

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896332#Comment_118896332

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/asylum_seekers_and_refugees/services_for_asylum_seekers_in_ireland/direct_provision.html

Direct provision system

Introduction

What is direct provision?

How direct provision works

Rules in direct provision

Complaints about direct provision

A new system to replace direct provision

Further information and contacts

Introduction

Direct provision is the name used to describe the accommodation, food, money and medical services you get while your international protection application is being processed or while you are an asylum seeker, which means the same thing.

You might get direct provision if you have applied for international protection and are waiting for:

Your first decision

The result of an appeal to the International Protection Appeals Tribunal

A judicial review (where the High Court looks at how a decision on your application was made)

A decision on whether you will be given leave to remain

A deportation

Your direct provision normally ends if the Department of Justice gives you permission to remain in Ireland, but sometimes you can stay in direct provision temporarily while you are looking for your own place to live.

What is direct provision?

When you apply for international protection, also called claiming asylum, the International Protection Office (IPO) must process your application. This sometimes takes a long time.

While you are waiting, you are entitled to direct provision. This means that you get:

Somewhere to live

Meals

A weekly payment of €38.80 per adult and €29.80 per child

A medical card

You do not have to accept direct provision. But you are not entitled to any other help from the State if you do not accept it.

Ukrainian refugees don't fit into any of the above. They have no international protection application to be processed. They get it on landing in Dublin. They get full welfare payments & not the "weekly payment of €38.80 per adult and €29.80 per child". That people in Direct Provision get. They couldn't gain access to a direct provision center even if they wanted to.

jo187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896165#Comment_118896165

Sorry mate off topic. Have you heard of HAP limit being increased? Was told a few months ago they were being looked into, wondering if you heard anything? Cheers

This thread has been very educational for me.

I was going to take in some Ukrainian refugees but now I know that these beautiful women will ruthlessly seduce me and my teenage son (my wife will not be happy but my teenage son will), they will infect us with hiv, their pets will bite us and give us rabies, then their crazy ptsd war veteran husbands will come over and murder us.

Thanks Boards for showing me the light.

@goldenmick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893395#Comment_118893395

You are posting from the frontline, I assume?

Because I'd be really embarrassed for you, practically frothing at the mouth with this level of indignation, if you weren't.

Please have a bit of respect.

@goldenmick and several other warriors have been fighting this bitter war on the frontline since day one.

Over on the Russia thread.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896300#Comment_118896300

We have a housing crisis in this country and a scarcity of rental properties as it is, so where will the Ukrainians rent if they are approved for HAP?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896572#Comment_118896572

Same question can be asked in Paris, London, Berlin etc. even without the refugee crisis from Ukraine. Tell me how the left will fix it ?

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896300#Comment_118896300

I don’t want to labour itty bitty points but in your last post you were quite certain they would be getting HAP (not a SW payment) and now it’s RS.

Of course they will be entitled to the full scope of SW benefits and allowances…eventually. But, in the meantime:

The Ukrainian refugees I met on Tuesday were sitting on the edges of civil defence camp beds in a draughty hall with a tin roof on the side of the road in north Tipp. It was being explained to them that no, we currently didn’t have hotel/B&B rooms available to them and yes, they would have to sleep here for a few nights. And I was embarrassed. Because I know that there simply isn’t any accommodation either LA or privately owned for them to rent, with or without Rent Supplement or HAP. And I don’t know why we invited them to come here when we don’t have the way of looking after them.

Sleeper12

They will be competing for rental property with Irish people. They have been granted full status here in Ireland. It might easier for you to see them as EU citizens. The rights they have been granted are closer to EU citizens than to what we would consider refugees.

They are homeless in the true sense of it or more so than most Irish people on the housing list. They have no family or friends to couch surf. They have no possessions except what is in a suitcase.

I need to make this very clear. Some of the houses & apartments that were pledged weren't pledged as free accommodation. They were pledged to accommodate these people but to still charge rent

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896672#Comment_118896672

They will be getting Rent allowance and HAP. HAP if it is deemed that they have long term accommodation needs & rent allowance if it is deemed to be short term needs.

I seem to have to repeat myself on this thread. They aren't being treated as refugees in the typical way. They have been granted access to all of the welfare and financial assistance services as Irish people

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/asylum_seekers_and_refugees/refugee_status_and_leave_to_remain/accommodation_for_refugees.html

From The Citizen information page for Ukraine refugees

The Housing Assistance Payment (HAP) is a form of social housing support for people who have a long-term housing need. To qualify you must be on the local authority’s housing list – which means that you qualify for social housing support. Under HAP you must find your own private rented accommodation - the local authority will not source it for you. The local authority makes the HAP payment to your landlord on your behalf. You pay a weekly HAP rent contribution to the local authority, based on your household’s weekly income and your ability to pay.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896782#Comment_118896782

Rent allowance doesnt exist. Did you mean rent supplement?

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896797#Comment_118896797

Getting petty doesn't make you right. Rent supplement is more commonly known by the people who use it as rent allowance. Read my posts. In the vast majority I say rent supplement/ allowance

Call it what you will. They are entitled to it & HAP

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896808#Comment_118896808

Oh I could start providing links maybe?

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896808#Comment_118896808

Are you trying to say that they will get rent supplement AND HAP? I don’t even know what this argument is about. In order to get either, an applicant needs to have secured private rented accommodation. And there just isn’t any. If you believe that there is I wish you would let the rest of us know where it is.

Instead of diverting refugees to other countries where they DO have accommodation, and only bringing refugees when we are properly ready for them, we are bringing old people and small children with nothing to offer them. Dreadful stuff.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896509#Comment_118896509

You should forget all the fluff and concern yourself with the more practical aspects. Most people will be fine and it will work out, but like any house share, a large portion will not work out, so you have to make sure that that is covered too. Its all well and good helping and is very noble, but make sure you are covered if you cant help anymore.

Take someone in if you feel like doing it yourself, but ask questions before you do.

Ask how long will it be for.

Is there an end date or will you have to "evict" the refugees you take in yourself if it is not working out for you.

Now it might work out, but if youve ever shared a house before you will know what can happen. These people will be strangers when they arrive first. So you may click with them or you may not over time.

Now there could be many reasons it might not work out. Personality clashes. Just not getting on with someone. Even down to someone being smelly or not washing the dishes, staying up late, getting up early, snoring etc. All very small things that could annoy you or maybe they wouldnt, , But the fact is IF you need an out, for whatever reason, make sure it is there. You dont wnat the guilt of having to kick someone out yourself. You should be able to contact whatever agency placed them there and they will move them immediately if you dont want them in your house anymore. And you dont want to hear that it will take 30 days or 60 days before they get someone out of your house that you dont enjoy living with. Usually if relations break down between housemates, someone needs to leave or live will just get more miserable while they are waiting to leave.

You might even really like them but decide that you need your space back in your house. Would you like a brother or sister of yours even living with you for 6 months, 1 years, 2 years :) I know i would get very tired of my brothers and sisters living in my house after 2 weeks even though I love them.

Then check if you will be getting payment and if this is definite or "Maybe". Because feeding, clothing and entertaining people in your house is expensive and only getting moire expensive.

Then check if you will be taxed on that. Will the agency do your accounts or will you have to pay an accountant to do it when it comes to tax time?

Thats just a few of the more down to earth things I can think of.

Just have everything in writing for all eventualities and guaranteed BEFORE you walk into it. Cover yourself in case anything goes wrong, so that the agency or govt is clear on what is expected of you and supplied by them.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896808#Comment_118896808

They will be entitled to it but there are no properties for them to rent - all that may be available are rooms in homes and thats a big maybe.

Lots of issues need to be dealt with:

• -like what standard do the properties need to meet ( is it current standards which may rule out alot of houses)
• -if you take in someone seeking refuge is the income you receive taxable
• Insurance - do householders have to cover insurance themselves

Its hard enough for anyone to find a rental property currently. The arrival of the Ukranians will only add to our housing crisis surely you see that. The fact that the ukranians can claim housing supports means absolutely nothing because there is nowhere for them to go.

Government need to come up with a solution fast or there will be huge issues down the line.

Sleeper12

This is my last post on HAP. I have repeatedly posted links explaining that ukraines can claim HAP & rent allowance/supplement. Posters refuse to read them & foolishly repeat no HAP for them. It's pointless me spamming the thread with the same links if posters wont even take the time to read them. I have already explained that they are not seeking asylum. They will not be put in direct provision. They wouldn't be allowed go into direct provision. They are entitled to all of our welfare system. Everything you & I are entitled to, they can get the same. For short term housing needs they can apply for rent allowance. For long term needs they can apply for HAP. If refused HAP then then are entitled to rent allowance.

There is a site called citizeninformation.ie

About Citizens Information

The citizensinformation.ie website provides comprehensive information on public services and on the entitlements of citizens in Ireland. We gather information from various government departments and agencies, and make sure that you have all the information you need, presented in an easy-to-understand way.

The site has been specially designed around the needs of users for those times in life when you need information about your rights and how to apply for State services in Ireland.

Citizensinformation.ie was developed, and is maintained by the Citizens Information Board. Citizensinformation.ie website is an Irish eGovernment initiative, and was originally established under the Government's first action plan for the Information Society.

The Citizens Information Board is the statutory body which supports the provision of information, advice and advocacy on a broad range of public and social services. It provides the Citizens Information website, citizensinformation.ie, and supports the network of Citizens Information Centres and the Citizens Information Phone Service 0818 07 4000 to provide free, confidential, independent and impartial information to all.

The Citizens Information Board produces a number of publications about your rights and entitlements.

Citizen information has a page dedicated to Ukraine refugees. The reason they have a page dedicated to Ukraine is because they have totally different rights compared to regular refugees. The day the land they can take up full or part time work. They can enroll their children in regular local schools. They have access to the entire welfare system. Refugees can read this webpage from somewhere like Poland before they decide on Ireland. If people would just read it instead of saying "I am right & you are wrong" we could make this thread a lot smaller. Please read it. HAP & rent supplement are both covered. Below is the link.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/asylum_seekers_and_refugees/refugee_status_and_leave_to_remain/accommodation_for_refugees.html

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896830#Comment_118896830

Good luck with getting answers to all of that.

The reality is:

1. Many of these refugees have nothing- their entire cities towns and villages no longer exist
2. The war is still going and will do, possibly into 2023 at least
3. It will take a decade or more to rebuild and rehouse the displaced citizens
4. If you take their rent allowance what will they live on? I’m not saying you should or you shouldn’t take their rent allowance but they will have little or nothing to live on if you do
5. While many women will be capable of work, those with children will have difficulty- who will mind the kids?
6. It’s going to cost families to house all of these people- most hosts will be able to afford this short-term- and out of the goodness of their hearts- but it will be significant cost medium term - and not all can afford that.

While this thread currently looks like a sh1t show, I reckon it will take off in a few months time when the stories start on the Joe Duffy show - we’re not set up to take in 150k+ people into this country right now for the medium term.

Peoples good will and acts of kindness will not be limitless in most cases- not because they’re mean - no not at all and far from it- it’s simply because either they can no longer cope for whatever reason or they just can’t afford it

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896877#Comment_118896877

You might be totally correct in that there wont be many places to rent but fair play to you to agree that they are entitled to HAP

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896877#Comment_118896877

This is all correct.

There seems to be a huge level of denial going on in lots of levels in Irish society and on boards about the scale of our housing crisis. There. Are.No. Premises. To. House.Families. Hap or no hap. RS or no R/S. benefits or no benefits. The properties don’t exist. Accept it.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896825#Comment_118896825

Well said 👏

Dempo1

So the pledge concept going well 🤔

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/almost-3-000-offers-of-vacant-properties-to-house-refugees-fail-to-materialise-1.4847538

Sleeper12

I'm sure some people are having a change of mind but it's worth remembering that people put their names on the Red Cross site & haven't heard a thing in well over a month. There are hundreds of people on that list in my own area in Dublin that got their own refugees through Facebook. There are thousands of refugees housed in Ireland by people on the Red Cross site that can no longer take what was pledged because they already have refugees. I pointed this out near the start of the thread. I'd suggest that there is a lot more than the 3 thousand they now no about that already heve refugees in their home. The Red Cross were very slow getting in touch with homeowners. Most still have not been contacted

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896137#Comment_118896137

Because currently 80% of the rental income needs to be given to the nursing home. Now who in their right mind would rent out a house at 20% of its market value?

Take for example somewhere in rural Ireland where rent might be 400 euro a month for the house. You actually only get 80 euro a month. So for 1k a year (roughly 500 euro post tax if on higher rate). Then auctioneer fees etc. It's just not worth it.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896771#Comment_118896771

I've already seen it in my local group. Ukrainian refugees posting asking if anyone knows of anywhere. Its heartbreaking really as not only are they refugees but they then have to come here and find somewhere in this market. The housing crisis is and has been an emergency for years now. I don't think people realise how bad it is because the vast majority of people have accommodation so they're not going through it.

Last time I had to search for accommodation was 9 years ago and even then it was pure hell.

iamwhoiam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897048#Comment_118897048

Five weeks now and we have heard nothing from the Red Cross . We have a four bed house in Dublin close to everything you need . I am very reluctant to go it alone without the Red Cross support but will be tempted very soon if this lack of communication carries on .

An e mail to say “ stay patient “ would even be something but to know nothing is so frustrating . I wouldn’t have a clue how to go about contacting anyone through Facebook

hillwalkingjesuslovesme

Agree with your comments. Also, can anyone confirm that Ukrainians will be given children’s allowances? And has anyone discussed Ukrainian refugees giving birth in Ireland and how that will work in terms of future rights? There’s so much involved. Michael Martin says stay as long as you want, but Wouldn’t it be better if we gave it a limited period of time? Wouldn’t it be better if we had some rules around this simply to safeguard everybody concerned.

Sleeper12

The red cross are in for a shock when they realise how many on their list already have taken in refugees

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897125#Comment_118897125

Yes to children allowance.

Giving birth in Ireland I don't know about. I do expect anyone who has got off social benefits and held down a full time job to be considered for permanent stay in Ireland. Can't see why they would kick out a productive person

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896903#Comment_118896903

While I don't entirely disagree, there is also a lot of denial in Irish society about the nature of our housing crisis.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-has-10th-highest-rate-of-vacant-homes-in-the-world-study-finds-1.4709476

There's a lot of cultural bullsh1t around land and property in this country, to the point that we will defend to the hilt someone's right to own a property and leave it vacant, even while a housing crisis rages.

We need to enact harsh vacancy taxes and start CPOing unused land and houses in high-demand areas. As well as incentive schemes for older people to downsize.

Property speculation is immoral and should not be facilitated by the state.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896903#Comment_118896903

Surely this is a blinkered city centric view of Ireland. There's plenty of empty and vacant houses in Ireland - they're just not in Dublin or Cork or Galway etc. Never mind many towns and villages that are in decline, many coastal areas have lots of owner owned & holiday rental housing.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897272#Comment_118897272

So the government should just take private property?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897235#Comment_118897235

That's a great headline figure that suggests there is a glut of houses ready to go.

But when you drill down into it, not so much. Table 4.3.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp1hii/cp1hii/vac/

Yes if we could get people to up sticks and move to Roscommon or Leitrim then problem solved. You need infrastructure though, I don't even want to think about how our national broadband plan is going at the moment. 😕

I think before the government start doing land grabs, they should really get their own shít together.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/special-report-4000-properties-owned-by-councils-empty-in-a-housing-crisis-41244351.html

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897272#Comment_118897272

Short term yes these places would “suffice” - but even then they’d need to be brought up to standard and that takes time. But we’re not talking short term here -1-4 months- we’re talking 12-18 months minimum - many of these Ukrainians have had their whole cities towns and villages destroyed - where will they go? Living in a rural village above a closed down shop in a one horse town miles from any amenities won’t cut it medium term- there’s a whole heap of trouble ahead- and just in case anyone is interpreting this as against Ukrainians coming here, far from it- but I think we have our heads buried in the sand on this one, in terms of just how feicing big this whole project is . Our population is rising by over 5% in a matter of months and we already have a housing crisis

There will have to be:

big tax breaks for those accommodating Ukrainians in their own home to help them meet the rising bills in the medium term

A plan to revitalise towns and villages - fast track CPO of unused buildings and convert

etc etc etc

FYI- the Red Cross registration site is asking for a 12-18 month commitment when volunteering to house people - that’s a big commitment for many and they’ll need monetary support to do that

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897272#Comment_118897272

I live in urban Thurles. I encourage you to go on daft.ie or rent.ie and see how many properties are to be let in our area.

Patrick2010

UK require Ukrainian refugees to apply for a visa to enter the country, we are taking in anyone who wants to come. UK has taken 1000 refugees so far, Ireland a country 10 times smaller has taken in 18000 so far with an additional 600 a day coming. What is the point in telling refugees we're prepared to take in 200000 when we clearly have no room for them?

A 40/1000 failure rate reported here in UK of matching - while small it’s worrying nevertheless

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10698039/Female-Ukraine-refugees-seek-new-UK-homes-men-sexual-advances-insiders-say.html

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897342#Comment_118897342

Yes. Absolutely. CPO it and house people.

Cal4567

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897235#Comment_118897235

It really is time we started to have the blunt conversation. I'm sick and tired of listening to people who are adequately housed tell me we haven't a housing crisis. However, everyone I know who has tried to rent or buy a property over the last few years has a nightmare story to tell. Those stories have only got worse. We are probably in the middle of the most dysfunctional property market.

We are seeing now over the last few days how the powers at be are struggling to source suitable accommodation. In the space of barely a month, we've gone from promoting an open door policy (100,000, 200,000, whatever number) to running out of options fairly quick, once we got to around 20,000. It's also taken the Ukrainian refugee crisis for the wider comfortable part of the population to finally understand this, that there is a severe shortage of properties out there.

Do I think we should be providing solace to the Ukrainians. YES.

Do I think we are able to do so, much beyond the numbers we have around now (circa 20,000). NO.

Surely the government and their advisors in the civil service must have sat down, in early March, just 4 weeks ago, and with all the information to hand, realise that we have just enough opportunities to house a finite number of people over the immediate future?

By all means bring in emergency legislation to target empty properties but I have to ask why we've just sidestepped around dealing with any enforcement action over vacant homes, over the last decade. Another one to add to the growing list of disastrous Irish political policy decisions.

Annasopra

I suspect the 200,000 figure was a kite flying excercise in reality and the plan is for about 100,000

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897553#Comment_118897553

I think we will end up with far less than 200,000, but only because they didnt actually think about their offer. Now that reality is here they have looked at logistics and are getting a landing. But sure whats new for politicians.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897542#Comment_118897542

So buy up peoples private property for X amount of money (market rate I assume) and supply for refugee housing costing the country a huge amount of money. Going forward would you ban people from owning a holiday home?

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897542#Comment_118897542

If the government wants to CPO my house I'd burn it to the ground first and all those property is theft latte socialists could suck my sweaty left one.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897553#Comment_118897553

Ah sure 100,000, yeah we can work with that... 🙄

I fully understand the visceral need to help. It's one I feel myself. However after the emotionals must come the practicals and we're not close to acknowledging them. We went from a seemingly intractable housing shortage - forget the homeless for a moment, it's one which any renter trying to find somewhere is all too aware of and not just in Dublin, Cork, Galway either - to accomodation for tens of thousands, even a hundred thousand people, many of whom are traumatised by this hideous war. That's just a roof over people's heads, there's also educational needs for the children, the basic services that people require and how those extending this needed help get help themselves to supply it after the inevitable honeymoon period is over.

That's before we account for another seemingly intractable Irish health service crisis that's been going on for decades, but we can sprinkle magical fairy dust and accomodate tens of thousands of people into that too? We've also one of the biggest social welfare bills in the EU and now we add tens of thousands to that as well? I'd love to find this magical money tree, I'd like a few leaves from it myself.

Never mind that it seems we've forgotten about covid 19 near overnight and the massive costs to us financially and pyschologically(though since Ukraine has taken over our attention the latter shouldn't be much of an issue) and an ongoing problem on top of the major problems in our health services. There are 1200 in hospital with that pox, 50 odd in ICU, 84,000 over 75's on hospital waiting lists, over a million on current healthcare waiting lists. Today. Before we add twenty, thirty, one hundred thousand people to the mix. Where is the magical solution tree to all this?

And that honeymoon period will end. That's the problem with mostly running off emotionals, they tend to have a time limit and that clock is already ticking. They also sadly tend to swing negatively if we're not careful. And never mind the Irish people, where will that leave those tens of thousands of displaced old people, women and kids?

Blue and yellow ribbons, slava Ukraine! in twitter bios and outbursts about the horrors and "think of the children!!", they have their place and aren't going away, but we need actual practical responses to this crisis from our government and we need them yesterday.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897358#Comment_118897358

Also many of these vacant homes as recorded by the CSO are in need of serious refurb to be habitable

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897650#Comment_118897650

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897781#Comment_118897781

And there's that magical money tree again.

WrenBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897542#Comment_118897542

That'd go down well.. 🤣

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897815#Comment_118897815

We should just invite a million and kick everybody out of their houses. I'm sure there's plenty of money for it!

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897358#Comment_118897358

There's no reason we can't do these things in parallel. The lack of infrastructure is not a de facto reason why a property or set of properties is unsuitable. We hear constant stories about housing stock that can't be used for council housing because it's not up to standard. Even though 75% of the rest of us live perfectly fine in housing that wouldn't reach that standard. There has to be a balance somewhere.

I was looking a house last year which hadn't been upgraded since it was built in the late 70s, and I asked someone in the know whether they thought it would be possible to live in it while upgrading it piecemeal. Their answer has stuck with me and given me a new perspective on the whole notion. They pointed out that I grew up in a house just like that. Single paned windows, insufficient insulation, inefficient boilers and radiators. While not ideal, not the home comforts I'm now used to, to put up with housing like that for a couple of months or even years is hardly intolerable suffering. A large, slightly chilly house but with a garden, a kitchen, 4 bedrooms and a front door you can close, is surely better than everyone cramped in a hotel room or relying on the charity of another family. Pump the money into improving the housing stock, but use it while we improve it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897650#Comment_118897650

I wouldn't ban per se, but I also would not be opposed to it being possible to CPO holiday homes or even second homes where the local need for housing warranted it.

second toughest in the infants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897727#Comment_118897727

Nail on the head.

But you know, you're an inconsiderate heartless bastard that wants to see kids run over by tanks.

I'm king of the heroes. Look at me save the world typing on tinternet. Where's all me thanks for my heroism from my fellow heroes?

Now let me fix the cushions on my moral pedestal.

Load of shite.