Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

Sleeper12

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-defence-forces-gormanstown-camp-refugee-crisis-ukraine-5723156-Mar2022/

There were photos of the actual tents but I can't find them now

brokenangel

I see some people are trying to turn this into a political battle. They don't care about the people but using it for a reason to complain about the government. Disgusting carry on. I would say I am surprised but to be honest I am not at all. The current carry on of some people really is showing the true colours of supporters of parties.

The hope everyone would have in a situation like Ukraine would be that political sides would be dropped just to try help the people. Seemingly not.

iamwhoiam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892665#Comment_118892665

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/ireland-needs-build-35000-homes-26594137

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118885581#Comment_118885581

I was wondering how that works too. I know someone who has a house of a parent wrapped up in fair deal. They would happily give it to the government for renting or refugees.

But they have questions.

Are the government going to clean up and modernize the house?

Are the government going to put all their parents stuff into storage for them?

This house is witting there and will be sold when their parents die, as they are unlikely to move back. But it is in no state to empty out and get rentable. Also this person and their siblings have a probably unrealistic hope that one day one of their parents can be brought home at least for a visit or to die.

These homes are not in any way at all ready to be handed over to refugess. Another housing minister with his head up his arsre and spouting soundbites.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892625#Comment_118892625

Yes but it's about better then a warzone.

We need to be using sports halls etc, we don't have the availability of permenant homes.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892784#Comment_118892784

This is one case. People seem to come up with one case and then decide to reject everything else on the odd case.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892805#Comment_118892805

Yes that is one case. There are thousands of different cases. How many homes that are waiting in the fair deal scheme do you think are ready to hand over to refugees. I would say very few myself.

griffin100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118891359#Comment_118891359

Fear of the loss of ones house is one of the reasons that older people are kept in hospitals by their families rather than being allowed leave and enter into nursing homes. I can’t see any proposal to take your parents house and give it to a refugee is going to do anything to help that situation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892719#Comment_118892719

As far as I am aware, every political party supports helping Ukrainian refugees - rightly, imo.

But the question remains - where are they going to live when we reach full capacity?

How are we meant to provide medical treatment, when hospitals are already in crises?

Where are we meant to find schools with the capacity, and resources, to cater for an unknown number of people?

What about our working homeless, many of them with kids? Should they continue to pay taxes to build 35,000 homes for refugees, while there is apparent inabilty to build "affordable" homes for themselves?

How do you think families affected by Mica feel? They've paid their taxes, and through no fault of their own, find themselves in dire straits. They've been ignored, told there is insufficient funding to help them, and sometimes vilified - yet suddenly all political parties feel they can cope with 200,000 Ukrainian refugees...

Then we have the NGOs demanding "equal" treatment for asylum seekers. Asylum seekers and regugees are not equal. We need a level of control, sad as that may be.

Otherwise we'd be inviting every chancer in the world to rock up and demand housing and resources that we just don't have...and that's not a reflection on genuine asylum seekers, it's just being honest and realistic.

I agree the length of time spent waiting for applicarions to be processed is ludicrous, but people need to understand that we do not have unlimited resources, and those who demand equal treatment for all should include Irish people in those demands, because, right now, there are a significant number of Irish people being pushed to the back of the queue - and that's not equal treatment, not by a long shot...

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892925#Comment_118892925

Yep, it's a stupid idea.

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892784#Comment_118892784

The plan is that you or your mam will get the rent. You would pay storage fees out of the rent. You keep the profits

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892793#Comment_118892793

That may be so but youd swear there was no other country in europe or the world capable of accommodating people adequately. Tents and warehouses simply arent good enough, not to mention doctors, schools and other supports that are already creaking at the seams.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892929#Comment_118892929

That's next level whataboutery.

How do you think families affected by Mica feel?

😕

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893156#Comment_118893156

Well unfortunately it’s that or sleep out in the open air- the vacant homes with proper bedrooms and facilities like a normal home simply don’t exist as we type now. The best will have to be made of what’s there and what we can quickly put in place.

goldenmick

@[Deleted User] - I think hyper dramatic language like this causes people to switch off their critical thinking skills and act purely on emotion.

So you're saying the Irish people are sheep who don't have independent thinking skills, and can be herded into a particular way of thinking by someone writing a simple sentence or two on a forum.

Yeah, right Freud.

@[Deleted User] They likely escaped the worst of the horrors if they are already here. The grim stuff we've seen on the news recently is relatively rare in the wider ukraine conflict. Thankfully most people in Kiev didn't witness the barbarism seen elsewhere.

And you know all this do you? Out of all the millions of people who've been evacuated from Ukraine you alone know the personal circumstances of every single one of them.

Let me educate and enlighten you as you're obviously lacking in not only knowledge but also basic common sense.

• Only a small percentage would actually be from Kiev, and whilst they may not have directly witnessed the "barbarism elsewhere" as you put it, they've all got fathers, brothers, sons and daughters who are fighting for their country, many of whom have already been killed or injured.
• The vast majority are escaping from battle torn regions all over Ukraine, and many have already witnessed horrors the like of which you, pontificating in your comfortable home on a keyboard, will never, ever see.
• EVERYONE who is now a refugee fleeing from this conflict has additionally lost schooling for their children, healthcare, their home, their income, all their personal belongings, family, friends and any kind of support they once had. That's to say nothing of the mental and physical traumas experienced. Most have children who are likely scarred for life by all this.
• Do you think these people want to be here, alone in a strange land with strange new people and a completely different culture to their own. If it takes 3 months, 6 months, a year or more, almost all of these refugees will want to return to their homeland when it's safe to do so.

Dozens of countries are taking in refugees, and Poland are taking millions. Whilst the infrastructure of Ireland may be unable to cope, and it's own people are desperately awaiting housing, it's no different to any other country. Everyone is doing their bit in these desperate times and we will find a way through.

Most of the comments on this thread are from ass-holes who've not a clue what they are talking about. Ukrainian pets and animals, housing, language barriers, etc. The Government of Ireland are not thick imbeciles. Not many have pets with them, but every animal will be either fully inoculated and/or quarantined. Whether it's tents, hotels, barracks style, adaption of large empty buildings, or any other solution under the sun... Ireland will cope. It has a heart. Unlike some of its citizens.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892299#Comment_118892299

I have yet to see a single, coherent and acceptable reason as to why, Yemenis, Iraqi or Syrian Refugees have been treated so differently.

Sure, you have. Ukraine is an European conflict. Tribalism is real. Europe has little interest in dealing with M.Eastern conflicts in the same manner because they're not part of the geographical, and perceived cultural area that is Europe.

And to be fair, it's hardly different elsewhere. In the M.East, Jordan takes in refugees from the conflicts of the surrounding areas but has little interest in helping those further afield. That's the same throughout the world.. we're more helpful to those we perceive as being most similar to ourselves. (although the interesting thing is the way many posters here, have so much interest in helping foreign groups, such as refugees, but so little interest in our own disadvantaged..)

It also helps that Ukraine is the first European conflict since Bosnia. That carries weight. If we saw a dozen similar conflicts in Eastern Europe or the the outskirts of Europe, you'd find the willingness and interest to help wane significantly.

People seem to be in a rush to cry racism or such over these issues, as if we're supposed to be some shining light of enlightenment and fairness. Those people really need to wake up and appreciate the way the world really works. Resources are finite. The success of Western nations economically is not a given. And helping too many people from a variety of conflicts might tick the emotional or virtuous boxes in the short term, but brings in a host of long-term problems too.

Asylum Seekers have few Rights on entry to Ireland during residency application process which takes years, they end up in Direct provision and certainly do not get furnished with PPS numbers, Medical card application assistance and certainly no direct access to SW benefits.

Asylum has always been something of a special status extended to those in need of protection. The State takes on the responsibility of providing support and protection to those approved.. It was never intended to be a support mechanism for large numbers of people who could very easily support themselves, and likely aren't in fear for their wellbeing. As such, Asylum claims need to be vetted, and verified to ensure that resources are not being wasted on those who just want a free ride. And many do want a free ride.

You say you want to be clear. Grand. Let me be equally clear. A large percentage of Asylum claims over the last two-three decades have been bogus. People destroying their own documentation or doing everything they could to impede the investigatory process, and then, tying the system up with repeated appeals that takes ages to process, and then get repeated... even when the person involved knows that their appeal will likely fail.

Asylum seekers should have few rights until their claim has been verified and approved. Until that point, they are illegal immigrants, under investigation to be granted Asylum (and the vetting process shouldn't change their illegal status). But Ireland should not be wasting resources on people until their claims have been approved. And.. realistically, if someone has a valid claim, they'll have the documentation, and will be able to prove themselves eligible. The absence of that ability is rather dubious considering the technologically driven societies that exist all around the world, and relatively easy access to information.

Just to be a abundantly clear, I. Absolutely welcome all Refugees, have also volunteered at Direct Provision centres but there's appalling Hypocrisy at play here with not just a Two Tier Refugee system but State benefits system created over night.

----

The scenes coming out of Ukraine are shocking, appalling and Heart Breaking, they are equally so coming out of Yemin and other war torn countries around the world.

Well... to be equally clear, I don't. Oh, I sympathise. I really do. I support them through a variety of charities. Easily done. Not going to claim anything beyond that.

The reason I don't welcome all refugees, because I'm cynical due to the experiences I've had from living in Asia, and spending time in Africa. I appreciate that corruption is rampant throughout the world, and people will scam, cheat, abuse others to get a leg up. Becoming a refugee, or claiming to be one doesn't change that aspect of human behaviour. And so, I would like to see a more pragmatic and practical approach to the refugee issue, because the simple fact is that we can't help everyone, and while it would be "nice" to help as many as we could, the cold hard truth is that it's incredibly expensive over long periods of time. I've no desire to see the Irish economy buckle under the strain of helping out so many, or the social/justice problems that arise because refugees weren't vetted properly.

second toughest in the infants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118891863#Comment_118891863

That's by far and away the most sensible and realistic post on this thread.

You've hit the nail on the head and articulated what a lot of people are thinking.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892625#Comment_118892625

But you can setup prefabs relatively easily. None of this is particularly difficult. Tents first, then prefabs, and later, when space is found, then houses.

It's not perfect. Probably not even comfortable. But it's practical.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892929#Comment_118892929

"How do you think families affected by Mica feel? They've paid their taxes, and through no fault of their own, find themselves in dire straits. They've been ignored, told there is insufficient funding to help them, and sometimes vilified"

Can't believe I just read that, nearly choked on the coffee. The state appears to everyone else to be bending over backwards and is being extremely generous, far too generous to a bunch of band wagon hoppers. Taxpayers in the rest of the country are the ones being screwed by the so called 'mica property owners'. I'd rather see the money spent on housing immigrants of all types that thrown away up there. If people affected by mica have a problem, do what the rest of us, take out a loan and get it fixed. Life's a bitch and then you die.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893294#Comment_118893294

Mostly utter nonsense, let's take the minority of bogus asylum seekers out of your bizzare assessment, are you saying sure its grand we'll treat ligitmate ones as badly 😳 are you also forgetting those actually "Invited" , what have they done wrong exactly and finally you are aware the Balkans are on the European continent 🤔 how were those refugees treated 🤔

You and many others seemingly not getting the Two Tier approach coupled with blatant discrimination and Hypocrisy at play.

So despite your rather lame attempt to justify what is going on, there remains Zero excuse for treating refugees differently based on their nationality.

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890756#Comment_118890756

The Wifi is pretty good on the frontline of battle, it seems.

You are posting from the frontline, I assume?

Because I'd be really embarrassed for you, practically frothing at the mouth with this level of indignation, if you weren't.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892793#Comment_118892793

they have sports halls already , we're aiming a little higher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893264#Comment_118893264

The Government aren't imbeciles?.. is this not the same Government who changed the Covid rules over and over. One month there was 5 stages, the next they were gone.

"You can go to a pub but can only stay for 95 mins and must buy a substantial meal".

Yeah sounds to me like the work of some smart folk right there.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118891863#Comment_118891863

When you start confusing virtue signalling with compassion, you really need to take a long hard look at yourself.

You and others are typical of a group full of whataboutery, raising this war, that war, NATO, USA etc etc. All to deflect from what is the most significant conflict to erupt on our continent in my lifetime and yours. This is nothing to do with virtue signalling - it's about making a moral judgement on what is right, what is wrong and where to draw the line.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893264#Comment_118893264

The vast majority are escaping from battle torn regions all over Ukraine, and many have already witnessed horrors the like of which you, pontificating in your comfortable home on a keyboard, will never, ever see.

Which is inaccurate. A large percentage of the refugees that Europe saw came from Western Ukraine, where there was no fighting. In many cases(not all), people left before the conflict reached them. Not blaming them, I'd do the same.

However, you're pushing your own agenda here, while seeking to call others out for theirs. Perhaps you should come down off that pedestal and argue with people on the same level?

Do you think these people want to be here, alone in a strange land with strange new people and a completely different culture to their own. If it takes 3 months, 6 months, a year or more, almost all of these refugees will want to return to their homeland when it's safe to do so.

Which is equally unlikely. Ukraine was the poorest country in Europe with real problems due to political corruption. I asked this earlier but nobody responded to it. You have the chance to provide your children with a first world education, western medicine, potentially a high standard of living, a country with fair work practices, and low corruption... or do you return to a war-torn country, which will still have the same problems with corruption, and now, firearms/weapons are in the hands of everyone. Give up a safe country, with endless opportunities for your children, to return to a dangerous place, with few realistic options for advancement.

You seem to have this strange perception of what Ukraine was before the war... For all the talk about love of their nation, it was not a great place to live. You should take a look at the mortality and life expectancy rates, and then compare that with Ireland.

Whilst the infrastructure of Ireland may be unable to cope, and it's own people are desperately awaiting housing, it's no different to any other country.

Sure, it is. Ireland is far more expensive a place to live than Poland. Everything costs more here, from goods to labour. Poland also has far more space not given to housing or farming.. allowing it to better provide, should other countries be willing to pick up the financial expenses. Let's see.. what else is different? Oh, Yes, Ireland is the furthest west you can go while remaining in Europe.

Where's the sense in taking refugees so far from their country, if their desire is to return when the conflict is finished?

Just think of the waste. The expenditure that has occurred which could have been better spent, providing help closer and in a quicker manner..

Most of the comments on this thread are from ass-holes who've not a clue what they are talking about.

Maybe. I see that coming from all sides, TBH. Often from the people claiming that others don't have a clue.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893387#Comment_118893387

Ignore what was stated, dismiss it in general, throw in something new to shift goalposts, and then deflect to avoid dealing with the objections. Great job there.

There remains zero excuses for you. I could find plenty of excuses if I cared to defend the system (which I don't). However, I gave you a variety of reasons, and you didn't want them, so I'll leave it at that.

goldenmick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893395#Comment_118893395

Well 11 people have read and agreed with me thus far.

I wonder how many will read and thank your pathetic statement?

Those in the minority always seem to have the biggest gobs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893406#Comment_118893406

No government is perfect, but they are elected and make decisions and choices on behalf of the electorate - whether you agree with them or not.

I said the government aren't imbeciles in respect of quarantine and/or inoculation of incoming animals. If you've categoric evidence that proves otherwise then please do show.

CreadanLady

We see it happening to Irish people, with offers of accomodation for sexual favours on various accomodation listings. No reason to believe that the same chancers will not be targetting refugees with the same tactic. Probably even moreso, as they will be seen as being vulnerable and perhaps a better mark.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893413#Comment_118893413

Okay. Explain the difference, and perhaps apply that difference to this situation.

Me and others are typical of... ? haha. What have you countered?

These kinds of posts are actually quite amusing. Can't engage and counter what was said... so just drop some moral/virtuous superiority on to others.

"Making a moral judgment, what is wrong, and where to draw the line".

Must be nice to live in such a simplistic world, where everything comes down to being black/white good/bad.

Honestly, you've put me into the absolute giggles. Reminds me of the older Catholic priests from the 70s/80s demanding that we conform to a very narrow, and approved way of thinking. Ahh funny.

CreadanLady

Anyone else hate it when a good thread just descends into a tit for tat bitching match between two posters.