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Retaining and accessing mobile phone metadata breaches EU law

  • 05-04-2022 2:18pm
    Registered Users Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭ 10000maniacs

    Europe's top court confirmed this morning that Ireland’s system of retaining and accessing mobile phone metadata breaches EU law.

    Ok, But what I don't understand how a vicious killer who was convicted using this technology suddenly becomes less of a killer and is less dangerous on the streets if let out because the EU has passed this ruling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭ MarkEadie

    Agreed. Dwyer will probably get released and a nice sum of compensation.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,769 ✭✭✭ Effects

    I hadn't thought about compensation, just that he may get released. He'll have to undergo a retrial though, and won't just be let out on the basis of this finding on the mobile data.

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,309 ✭✭✭✭ Sleeper12

    The murder took place in 2012. Government knew in 2012 that they needed to bring in legislation on this matter. They didn't & they still haven't. If government brought in legislation then Gardai could have used phone records.

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,349 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    Couldn't have made the legislation retroactive though, they would have had to do it before the murder.

    Anyway, he will get a retrial I suspect and we will see. It is an unfortunate downside of behaving under the rule of law, but it is dwarfed by the upsides.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭ 10000maniacs

    But surely if the prosecution proves beyond reasonable doubt that the circumstances in which the identification was made has produced a reliable identification, this EU ruling should hold no water. Surely this is the common sense approach. Otherwise we have people whom we all know to be vicious and dangerous murderers and are a danger to us all are roaming the streets.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭ Fandymo

    The law is the law. Dwyer, and likely others, will get out and probably get a nice chunk of money from the taxpayer due to our Government being incompetent. Will anyone get the blame for not implementing the law? Fcuk no, we don't do consequences in Ireland.

  • Registered Users Posts: 75,085 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn

    Will there be a liability for the phone companies for retaining this data and having it available or is it a fact that the government insisted on it being kept despite it being known to be not compatible with EU law?

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,349 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    You can't use illegally gathered data in a prosecution. Throwing the rules out cause you "know" you get the right guy is the stuff of authoritarian dreams.

    They can go for a retrial and do it without this evidence (Though it will be tough to get a "fair" trial).

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭ Fandymo

    It'll also be next to near impossible to place Dwyer, in the places they need to prove him to have been, without the data.

  • Registered Users Posts: 69,956 ✭✭✭✭ Overheal

    Even courts in the US lean towards the defendant in these case law examples. LEOs cannot just ignore the peoples constitutional rights, even the suspects, even when they were right to be suspicious.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,338 ✭✭✭ Jinglejangle69

    So does this mean that illegal activity on the web and peoples phones can’t be used to prosecute??

    Surely not, hopefully???

  • To best of my knowledge,there no evidence exists elaine ohara was even murdered

    This case never sat easy with me,to hold highly questionable fetishs and what 2 consenting adults do in a bedroom,

    This shouldnt be used as a reason to imprison someone either...ive no doubt dwyer is a sketchy individual,but the lack of any physical evidence reflects poorly upon justice system imo

  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 14,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭ whiterebel

    There definitely was something when this case was presented, that the Irish court could chose to ignore the ruling and uphold the guilty verdict.

  • Would he not just appeal it to european courts....potentially causing an issue of the supreme court being over ruled and having to back down??

  • Registered Users Posts: 69,956 ✭✭✭✭ Overheal

    Depends on Irelands Jurisprudence and EU's. EU says they cannot use it, so it's a matter of whether it's a supremacy clause issue or if its a case of two sovereignties (evidence can't be used to convict EU crimes, may be used possibly to convict Irish crimes, if Irelands courts allow it)

  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 62,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011

    Unlikely. Plenty of other evidence and also there's a history of "if you didn't challenge it at the trial, feck off" rulings.

    The other evidence is still legit even if they figured out it was him and then obtained said evidence based on the phones. Its not the same as the seeing something on an illegal search connection.

  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]

    Illegally gathered evidence can still be admissible, depending on certain things. DPP v JC

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  • What other evidence is there?

    Theres not even conclusive evidence,this poor woman was murdered

  • Registered Users Posts: 27,756 ✭✭✭✭ freshpopcorn

    Could Joe O'Reilly also go down this route?

  • Registered Users Posts: 14 lukewarm06

    The issue now is being granted the retrial...if he gets that I think he will be laughing ...

    The conviction was always shaky,I think it was Pathologist Marie Cassidy who said at the time she was shocked he was found guilty given the evidence presented which was quite something.....

    There was no DNA,forensics,murder weapon,I dont think they could prove from her remains she was murdered.....

  • Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭ Firminos

    Could he actually be acquitted?

  • Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭ Firminos

    Would be insane

  • Registered Users Posts: 30,845 ✭✭✭✭ listermint

  • Registered Users Posts: 38,487 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail

    or perhaps the lack of physical evidence reflects well on his ability to hide it?

  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]

    No evidence how she died. The only conclusive evidence presented was from the phone data was that the master phone and graham dwyers phone were pinging the same telephone masts at the same times and from the same direction about the times when Elaine O Hara disappeared.

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  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]

    No. The mobile data was collected almost immediately