National EV Charging Infrastructure Strategy

AndyBoBandy

Lolz

crisco10

My immediate assumption was that by fast they meant 50kW?

Be great if it was >100kW though.

Patser

In report they reference en route chargers as being more than 100Kw, but also reference additional fast chargers of more than 50Kw

the_amazing_raisin

I'm pretty sure there's EU legislation either in force, or coming through soon which basically says the same thing

https://www.electrive.com/2021/07/14/eu-commission-presents-fit-for-55-climate-package/

The government is probably just trying to get ahead of that and say it was their idea

The minimum power of the hub is interesting, at least 300kW per hub with at least 1 charger supplying 150kW

So that immediately puts the Ecars 150+50kW "hub" out of the race

EDIT: Correction, an EU parliament amendment set the target at 600kW per hub with at least one connector capable of supplying 300kW by 2025

Red Silurian

Hate to sound like a skeptic but I'll believe it when I see it

Looking at the route between Limerick and Dublin we have DC chargers online at

Distance From Limerick - Location (# available + Power)

0km - ESB Ballysimon (3 @ 150+50)

20km - Applegreen Birdhill (2 or 8 depending on car @ 50kW)

60km - ESB Moneygall (1 @ 50kW)

120km ESB Portlaoise (3 @ 25 to 50kW)

150km ESB Mayfield (7 or 3 depending on car type @ 150kW)

185km Easygo Naas Starbucks (1 @ 25kW)

185km ESB Naas Tesco (1 @ 50kW)

190km Kill Ionity (4 or 0 depending on car @ 350kW)

205km Newlands X ESB (1 @ 50kW)

I wonder will the govt consider this a success and job done as there is much more than one location every 60km?

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123572#Comment_120123572

So basically the standard eCars ‘hubs’ we currently have….. 150kW unit plus a 50kW unit….

Patser

@the_amazing_raisin EU 'Fit for 55' is referenced in the report. National Governments have to draw up their strategies and can then claim support from the EU scheme

Patser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123634#Comment_120123634

Probably, but a lot more of them. Plus grants for local private businesses to install their own - particularly places like swimming pools, cinemas, shopping centres etc where people likely spend a few hours.

Also a rather interesting idea to EV sharing, where people with home chargers 'rent' their space out to thers who can't access a charger

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123646#Comment_120123646

True, but the commission is also proposing to fine member states who don't install chargers

https://www.electrive.com/2022/10/10/eu-parliament-may-punish-delays-in-charging-infrastructure-roll-out/

IMO €1000 per uninstalled charger is way too low, it's cheaper to pay the fine than install the charger. If the fine was per day then there'd be some movement pretty quickly

Interestingly, the commission also wants to place "sanctions" on charging operators who don't adequately maintain the network or allow card payments

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123564#Comment_120123564

These are definitions they're working from, they are off the mark on the time to charge. I'd expect most sessions on Fast and High Powered chargers are closer to 40-45 mins.

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123829#Comment_120123829

Thanks - that's what I was afraid of.

I'm also assuming by "charge" they mean 20% to 80% or similar. So 50kW for 30 mins => 25kWh. This would imply they're assuming less than 50kWh as average battery size, so they're underegging it a tad.

munchkin_utd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123663#Comment_120123663

good to see the EU leading on this

Its no good to have great incentives in your home country, which are great for a second car or people who dont travel, but then get caught out on holidays abroad with your main car if your destination like France or Italy simply cannot be @rsed putting in the infrastructure.

Ireland will have the same issue in the likes of Galway or Kerry in a few years and I cannot help but think it'll be chaos during holiday time, but at least with ireland being so small you can at least get to your holiday destination even if it becomes a gigantic pain to get the EV topped up at the holiday destination.

sh81722

These articles are like the Metro North in Dublin or Fusion Power. It's a groundhog day all over again. I'm hoping it will work out but in reality I suspect there will be plenty of €1000 fines paid after 2025. Or perhaps ESBn will be suddenly be able to start providing 600 kW power connections en masse.

"A pessimist won't be disappointed" is all I can think now.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124133#Comment_120124133

A 600kW power connection? It sounds like an unachievable load on the grid, reality it's the same connection as a mid sized apartment development.

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124350#Comment_120124350

Right, but didn't somebody above mention that the 600 kW/at least one 300 kW capable charger per site was one of the success metrics. Sorry if I misunderstood (= I didn't read the original article). Well, you could also achieve the same in effect by adding local battery storage as a buffer.

irewestlad

I recall seeing on this article that a hub was planned for Oranmore

• ESB keeping electric vehicle charging costs ‘under constant review’

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-talk/esb-keeping-electric-vehicle-charging-costs-under-constant-review-41966398.html

I don’t see this mentioned in the strategy plan. Anyone know if the Oranmore plan is going ahead?

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124827#Comment_120124827

It was more in the context of ESBN having to install huge grid connections all over the place. The numbers sound big so it's nice to put them into a relatable perspective. Local battery storage is more of a positive for the operator as it allows them to reduce their maximum import capacity, it's not necessarily needed by the grid operator.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124878#Comment_120124878

I don't think the National Plan goes down to low level detail like that. I'd love to see the next phase be an outline plan of where the charging locations need to be and then allow open-access to funding for the delivery.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124827#Comment_120124827

That would be me and that's taken from the latest text of the Alternative Fuels Directive adopted by the EU

It's worth bearing in mind that the directive only applies to the major motorway network, not N roads. So you're defaulting to the most profitable routes from the start

I'm not sure how this will be managed but it's up to the government to implement the strategy. ESBN can try to wriggle their way out of it but they're also quite happy to install megawatt connections when the chequebook comes out

It's also worth saying the requirements increase to 900kW by 2028 I believe, and there may be further increases after that

cannco253

There’s been no further news about Oranmore, I guess the Carnmore “hub” is there now so probably been dropped.

Ionity also plan on something close to Galway but no news since the announcement last year.

sh81722

Some of the networks are great with announcing new hubs but then tumbleweed. The initial push to build a truly national network was great in 2010's standards, but since about 2015 the pace of expansion has been glacial.

However, I have somewhat high hopes for Tesla and Applegreen, EasyGo have been good with destination charging at hotels etc but we shall see... The biggest issue stopping them expanding is the availability of connections to the grid, and that's the elephant in the room.

KCross

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41051798.html

The strategy identifies the personas as 'Caroline', the car sharer, 'Tara' the taxi driver, and 'Ruairi', the rural commuter. There is also apartment dweller 'Anna', HGV driver 'Mike', retired urban dweller 'Rachel', and the tourist family, the 'Jacksons'.

Some people were wondering where Anna from eCars went to, she's at home in her apartment waiting for her charge point! 😀

cannco253

New €100m EV charging plan will put pressure on national grid

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/01/19/new-100m-plan-for-ev-charging-points-to-exert-further-pressure-on-national-grid/

Berty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120127775#Comment_120127775

True, but as we will have less cars on the roads that are ICE then can't we just burn the excess petrol/diesel to make electricty?

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120127843#Comment_120127843

Well most of our electricity comes from gas or wind (and not the kind that comes from eating a kebab at 2am)

And we apparently have a shortage of power plants (translation, Eirgrid can't plan ahead)

So unfortunately having some extra petrol around won't help

Old diesel

The fundamental problem in my opinion is that this all looks like a project led by people who don't understand EVs or charging tech or the possibilities.....

And certainly don't understand the way the technology is developing.

It reminds me of the thing that happens in Colleges where a student is given an assignment and all they want to achieve is 40 percent pass in the overall module.

You aren't going to get an A grade assignment with that mindset.

That's what this all reminds me of.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120127775#Comment_120127775

Of course it will, look who we have in charge of this at government level, he can't even stay awake long enough to fix the capacity issues we have today

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128994#Comment_120128994

I generally agree with you and frankly I think your comparison was too generous, it's more like the optional uncredited assignment your lecturer gave for anyone interested

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128104#Comment_120128104

Didn't the successful bidders for the planned power plants drop out and pay the penalty clause? Two new one announced today I think

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120131997#Comment_120131997

Yes you're correct, there were several dropouts

My read of that is that the penalty clause wasn't severe enough to prevent companies just dropping the bid

The cynic in me also suspects that whatever companies were planning to build the power plants either couldn't secure the parts to build them, or saw a more lucrative market elsewhere